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#395425 12/22/14 12:08 PM
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Fatih Offline OP
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Hey guys,

Remember my topic on trees? smile

Trees Selection. Need Your Help

Thanks to all the friends helped. I got my seeds after a month of waiting with worrying(seeds didn't have any certificate) . But finally i got them.

ARBUTUS menziesii Pacific Madrone
Quercus macrocarpa Southern Red Oak
Quercus rubra Bur Oak
Ulmus americana American Elm
Platanus occidentalis Sycamore
Carya illinoinensis - wild collection Pecan
Celtis occidentalis Common Hackberry
Cedrus deodara Cedar
Cedrus libani Lebanon Cedar
Taxodium huegelii Cypress

As a complete ignorant on these stuff, i have a couple questions for you.

1- Almost all of the seeds require cold stratification. Is just sealing and putting them in the refrigerator, enough? I read different things about moisture in the bag. Should i moisten them or should they remain completely dry? Am i supposed to add sand or something like that in the bag? Some sources recommend that.

2- I understand that i should scarify the seeds too. But is this before or after the stratification.

3- Check out the 2nd picture i shared. Even though acorns must be stratified too, i see that this one has a little bud coming out. Do you think it still needs stratification?

4- I should keep the seeds inside the house until they have leaves. But then what? Leave outside, so they can have sun? But it is cold out there smile ( Temp Zone 8B here ) . What to do?

Thanks .

Here some pics:



Last edited by Fatih; 12/22/14 12:53 PM.
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Fatih,

I would plant the acorn with the tap root breaking out. Maybe someone else can answer your other questions. In the meantime, I will send your questions to a guy I know that owns a nursery and grows all his trees from seeds. Maybe he will provide some useful info for you.

I would keep the seeds in a cool dark place until you decide how to proceed.

Bill D.

Last edited by Bill D.; 12/22/14 12:59 PM.

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Fatih
If you can remove acorn cap from the bur oak acorn that is sprouting. Plant on side about an inch in dirt and keep moist and it should come up fine.. I have a lot of bur oaks in my yard. Good luck


Pat W

Last edited by Pat Williamson; 12/22/14 01:39 PM.
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Hi Fatih,

I received the following from Darrell Kromm at Reeseville Ridge Nursery:

"To stratify the seed just a piece of moist paper towel or moist paper shreds inside a sealed plastic bag will work. To help the seed intake some water all could be soaked in water over night and drained before placing them into the plastic bags.

These species would need cold moist stratification at 1-3 degrees celsius ( 32-38 degrees F )

Arbutus menziesii about 60 days cold moist
Quercus rubrqa 60-90 days cold moist, the shorter amount if the seed is from a southern source.
Carya illinoiensis 60-90 days cold moist
Celtis occidentalis 60-90 days cold moist, rub off the dried flesh of the fruit first.
Cedrus libani and Cedrus deodora should germinate without stratification but 2 weeks cold moist may give a more even germination timing.
Ulmus americana Try just the water soak and sowing, if none germinate in 2-3 weeks give them some cool stratification time and keep watching them.
Platanus occidentalis should germinate if sown on the surface of moist soil in a warm place. You could also try them rolled up in a moist paper towel in a bag, then check them for germination every few days. Pluck out and pot up those that begin to germinate. Platanus occidentalis may have a majority of empty seeds.
Taxodium huegelii should germinate if sown in soil that is kept very moist and warm, these may take several months to germinate but should not need much of any cold stratification.

The Quercus macrocarpa that have begun to show the root emerging could be sown into pots, the top shoots may take a month or two to develop. You could also place the potted acorns in a cool place and keep the pots moist inside plastic bags. Rodents will often find anything left unprotected in open pots.

None of the species should need scarification.

Anything potted up could be set outside in a protected spot out of high sun and wind for the first several weeks. Again you’ll need some way to protect them all from rodents. Cover them or take them indoors if you expect frosts."


Have fun!

Bill D.


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Good to see you got the seeds!

Nothing more to add except to protect them from rodents, make a framework from .63 cm wire mesh. (that's the size of the opening). Don't let the plants grow thru the mesh, but the mesh should be fine enough to keep any rodents out.


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Pat, thanks. I will definitely plant it.

Dang it Bill smile . Wow! Thanks a lot man. You made my day. I wouldn't be able to find those specific info for each of them ever.

On the packages of the seeds it say "Scarification: Soak in water for 24 hours" . So , is this not necessary? Not even beneficial? I think soaking in water is not even called "scarification".

Don't worry for rodents guys. Scott, you remember i live in an apartment right? smile Rodents can't make it up to my balcony.

Last edited by Fatih; 12/22/14 10:07 PM.
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Fatih,

All I can say is, I would follow Darrell's instructions. If you google his nursery you will find the most impressive list of trees available that I have ever seen. He goes on road trips and collects all his own seed. I have tried a lot of places for my trees, I have planted over 200 so far, and he is now my go to guy. I have never got a bad tree from him! If you go to his website you can e-mail him direct if you have any questions. I think he would get a kick out of being part of you project.

Good luck my friend and happy holidays to you and your family!

Last edited by Bill D.; 12/22/14 10:26 PM.

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Bill i wish i ordered my seeds from that Darrell guy . I dunno what quality Sheffield provides.

I will take Darrel's advices. Thanks a lot man.

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Fatih,

Please keep us updated as the project moves along!


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Sure i will, Bill. You have always been so helpful and interested in my project. Thank you.

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Guys, i sowed Elm, Sycamore and Bur Oak. A week passed since then.

3 of 10 of Elm seeds sprouted.

Only 1 of 40 Sycamore seeds sprouted.

I guess i gotta wait for Bur seeds as Bill said. But i don't know what temperature i should keep them at.

I illuminate Elm and Sycamore seeds and sprouts with floruscent lights for 6 hours every day, so sprouts won't die.

I don't know what to do about Sycamore seeds haven't sprouted yet.


I water them with Aquarium tank water as fertilizer. I am planning to buy liquid fertilizers soon(i want maximum growth) but i don't know what kind of a fertilizer i should buy. Here is my soil analysis. Maybe it will give you a clue.

Larger image: http://i.imgur.com/FjkQI6V.jpg


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Fatih

I used rabbit manure on my burr oak and it grew 10' the first year! That stuff is great on anything, very balanced- fabulous on tomatoes


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We used to raise New Zealand rabbits for a living. It is one of the best natural fertilizers there is. Now you just have to go catch one wink

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Fatih,

IMO I would be careful about trying to fertilize them too soon. I would let them have a chance to develop some first.

For the Sycamore, remember what Darrell said

Platanus occidentalis should germinate if sown on the surface of moist soil in a warm place. You could also try them rolled up in a moist paper towel in a bag, then check them for germination every few days. Pluck out and pot up those that begin to germinate. Platanus occidentalis may have a majority of empty seeds.

For burr oak Darrell said 60 to 90 days cold moist stratification at 1-3 degrees celsius ( 32-38 degrees F )




Bill

Last edited by Bill D.; 01/02/15 04:33 PM.

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Good thing about rabbit smart pills is that it will not burn even if fresh

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Pat and FishnChips, thanks. I am taking a closer look on rabbit manure now. I guess the species of the rabbit doesn't really make a big difference, does it? Because i am not sure if i will be able to find New Zealand ones smile .

Pat 10' in 1 year? I am assuming you are fooling this poor foreign boy.


Bill, i know the majority of Sycamore seeds would be empty. 75% of them were floating in the water. So i knew only 10 of them were solid. But only 1 germination?

For Bur Oaks you said "The Quercus macrocarpa that have begun to show the root emerging could be sown into pots, the top shoots may take a month or two to develop. " . I thought they didn't require stratification after reading your comment.

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Fatih

Smart pills are all the same, it will grow anything
Type of wabbit doesn't matter.


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The problem is that we don't have them here smile . I will be in the USA in June but how many of them can i keep in my luggage anyways? smile

Pat , i am really interested in that 10' thing. Did that Oak get 10' from seed?

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Originally Posted By: Fatih

For Bur Oaks you said "The Quercus macrocarpa that have begun to show the root emerging could be sown into pots, the top shoots may take a month or two to develop. " . I thought they didn't require stratification after reading your comment.



Hi Fatih,

That is a comment from Darrell. I agree with you, it looks like he says plant them but it may be a couple of months before they come up. I think he was referring to the ones you said were already sprouting. Do you have enough unsprouted ones that you could try both ways?

Last edited by Bill D.; 01/02/15 09:51 PM.

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That burr oak was about 1/8"diameter when I planted it maybe 8" tall in its first year from in a pot. After planting it took off like crazy. The rabbit poop made it do this in one year of growth. You guys don't have any kind of domestic rabbits?


Pat W

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Bill, unfortunately i do not. But i know that Bur acorns can germinate in fall as well as spring. So they don't require a warm environment really. I put them in my balcony. Temp out there is between 40-50 F . So i will wait and see. If they require stratification my balcony should be fine. If they are ready to come out this will happen anyways smile .

Pat , this is really amazing. What kind of a soil you have? A loose one? I read in some article that they would thrive better in loose soils since roots can spread without having difficulties. We got domestic rabbit and i can find rabbit manure. But when you said "Smart Pills" i thought that was a kind of fertilization product made of rabbit manure and looks like pills smile .

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Fatih

Sorry that is humor between folks who raise bunnies. A local Texas thing.


Pat W

Our soil is called gumbo clay

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Fatih,
I know runoff from a septic field line will produce some pretty extraordinary results as well. 10' in one year is not unheard of.
Charlie


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Fatih:

Is the soil in the pots collected from the same spot that the soil test soil collected? If not, then the soil test might not be correct for what fertilizer to add.


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Pat, thanks. I get it now smile .

Stikem, i have no runoff unfortunately. Good to know 10' is achievable.

Scott, i thought the soil taken within a couple km distance would be about the same. I guess i am wrong smile .


Guys , on Garden Web forum a guy is trying to tell me something, which i guess is pretty important but no matter how many times i read it i can't get his point. Can you help me with that?

If you are starting from seed anyway, as you wrote, if you start it in a pot you will have to trim the roots before you plant the tree in the ground, unless you have the right pots to airprune the seedlings, and if you do have the airpruning pots the tree will have to grow more roots in the ground to catch up to the one that was already started in the ground in the first place. It may put the tree back one year or 2, not too much but, you will need to water in a drought unless you let the acorn grow where the tree will stay, since the acorn will put down a taproot, and that seedling will not need babied in a drought. I think it is a time saver, you press the acorn in the soil on it's side barely covered or not quite soil covered, but enough that it won't blow away, and walk away, you'll likely need something to protect the acorns from animals, I use wire baskets from the dollar store. So Pushing an acorn into the damp soil, cover with a wire basket or something like it, and walk away VS digging a hole getting the depth right, covering the roots and watering, mulching and still protecting from critters and watering the first year or 2 when it doesn't rain for a few days to a week, and the tree will have to replace roots lost in transplanting to catch up to that acorn pressed into the soil. That's my best explanation.


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