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Another RES diet thread Pat.

RES diet

Shorty's observation RES eating FHM

Last edited by snrub; 12/22/14 04:53 PM.

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Thanks very interesting. I think I'm going to stock more red ear. And see what happens. 5 ac aught to be enough for about anything and I tend to think outside the box at times. I'm left handed. Lol

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Originally Posted By: Pat Williamson
Sprkplug

If that's the case- which I'm sure it is - how can I do the shrimp thing without grass or pond weed? One year old pond is void of weeds so far. I can get plenty of shrimp from a creek but the won't make it w/ out grass . Is it advised to put vegetation in or none at all? If so which is the least bad


Pat W


That very question is why I do not utilize grass shrimp as natural forage. To me, it seems almost a trade-off of sorts...vegetation will give the shrimp a better chance of establishing in my pond, but it also offers cover for yoy bluegills, which is contrary to my management strategy.

Does the vegetation that is beneficial for grass shrimp, balance out the probability of increased recruitment of bluegills? I just don't know, and thus far I have been unwilling to take the chance.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Don't you want some cover for YOY BG ? I have very little cover and no YOY that I can tell. The bass have eaten them up. I guess it is a trade off for sure but not sure always a good one. This spring I'm planning on adding bunch of mudbugs to help the YOY survival a little. Diversity

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Pat, it depends upon one's goals, and the management strategy employed to try and achieve success. In most of my ponds the goal is large bluegills, which means that limiting recruitment is beneficial...fewer mouths to feed means more food for those that are left. LMB are utilized strictly as a management tool in these ponds, NOT as a goal orientated fish themselves. I consider them sacrificial, actually. If I have an abundance of skinny, stunted, 12" bass I'm happy!

We talk a lot about balance here on the forum... but an unbalanced pond, (as a departure from the "usual" idea of balance), can make for some big fish.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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That's why I like riprap in ponds for cover. Crayfish also utilize it for cover.


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TGW1 #395468 12/22/14 07:39 PM
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Don't you need vegetation to control some of the nutrients in the water? I am told in my area to expect high nutrient load, especially phosphorus, coming from the agricultural water shed.


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TGW1 #395480 12/22/14 08:38 PM
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That's why they make fluridone and cutrine! wink


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Ahhh! That goes back to your previous input about it is all about what your goal is. Mine is to try to manage by harvesting and supplemental stocking to have a pond that provides good fishing and table fare when we want it. I know I may have to do some things to adjust water qualty but I am hoping to do it in as natural way as I can. I am thinking the chance of a trophy fish in my pond will be remote.....but don't be surprised if you see a little tarter sauce on my chin in any picture I may post in the future!

Merry Christmas man!


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My goals I think are similar to yours Bill D. To date, I'm not into the trophy fish thing, although as I learn to fish more/better the bug may bite me. Right now I'm perfectly happy to catch numerous nice size fish. We have eaten a few (several CC) but have held off because the BG that are table fare size are our breeders. By next summer though, I hope we can take fish out to eat weekly. Pound or a little better BG and two to three pound CC and LMB (that are plentiful and easy to catch) would just tickle me pink.


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TGW1 #395486 12/22/14 09:07 PM
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Snrub,

I would say we are definitely on the same page, I am just a year or so behind you. CC will be my number 1 target this coming summer!

Last edited by Bill D.; 12/22/14 09:07 PM.

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I had never been a big fan of eating catfish. What I had eaten in restaurants ranged from decent to I did not care much for it. Was a little too oily fish for my taste.

But the CC we have caught so far from our pond have been as good as any fresh water fish I've eaten. I was pleasantly surprised and pleased how much I liked them. And they grow like crazy! Of course right now they are young and are supplemental fed, so they should taste as good as they are going to get. I have been happy with the CC so far.

Just hope I can continue to catch them and get them out before they get too big and become a problem for other fish in the fishery.

Last edited by snrub; 12/22/14 10:43 PM.

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CC taste better in the late fall-late winter . One to three lbs best eating after that they get fatty tasting.


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Will, here I am again thanking everyone for letting me bounce things off your heads. smile Alot of info it will take me some time to digest. Pat, u mentioned u will trap some grass shrimp from creeks etc. Can u tell how or where u plan on doing this? How many would you shoot for, and how much work are we talking about? And are that easy to find in E Texas? And you are going to add crawfish this spring. Walt @ Overtons said(as we added fish to my pond) that I should add a couple of bags of crawfish this spring. So are you adding native or are you adding Papershells? I am thinking 4 bags instead of 2 haha.


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People around here use grass shrimp to catch RES in the late winter during the pre-spawn. The RES are called "lake-runners" because they live in brackish waters that surround and feed Lake Pontchartrain.


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TGW1
I actually live in a town south of Houston called Pearland, there is a creek near me that has shrimp and gambusia in it . I just wade in with a fine net and get busy. Work, well it's all in how you view it! I'll spend an hour at it then carry them back to the house and put them in a ice chest and when I'm ready i run up to Buffalo and dump them int the pond. It is likely they get eaten but maybe a few make it. That's how I got the gams going in there. Just need nature to give me some "good"pond weed for the shrimp and gams to hide in


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Thanks for the info Pat. I have a bayou that passes through my property and I might just have to take a look see. I am not real crazy about getting in it, as a few big Western Cottonmouths hang around there. And I found a thread here where someone gets his out of a pond in N.La. So I guess I have just take net a travel. smile or maybe I can just point and let my 19 yr old grandson work the net for me. I'm bad smile


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Originally Posted By: Pat Williamson
TGW1
I actually live in a town south of Houston called Pearland, there is a creek near me that has shrimp and gambusia in it . I just wade in with a fine net and get busy. Work, well it's all in how you view it! I'll spend an hour at it then carry them back to the house and put them in a ice chest and when I'm ready i run up to Buffalo and dump them int the pond. It is likely they get eaten but maybe a few make it. That's how I got the gams going in there. Just need nature to give me some "good"pond weed for the shrimp and gams to hide in


Pat W


I've thought about taking something like a cattle panel for structural strength (we have a bunch laying around from the days we had cattle on the farm), and attaching some half or one inch fish netting to it. Then from the bank, use it as a reverse seine to force all the fish away from the bank by keeping the panel in a semi-circle. Then once in place use some steel posts to keep it there. So it would provide a very small "cove" of protection to introduce things like PK shrimp or even small fish. They could easily pass through the fence to "danger" of predation, but at least they would start out in a protected area and maybe would stay there at least long enough to get somewhat acclimated to their water and surroundings. Have not done this. Just thought about it if I get enough PK shrimp production in my forage pond and decide to net some and introduce them to the main pond. A person could use two panels and have a 32' long fence with the cove in an "A" shape out into the water also.

Last edited by snrub; 12/23/14 02:12 PM.

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Snrub

Actually a good idea if the fish mesh is readily available

Pat W

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Pat, the panels sound like something I would try. Sometimes I do a lot of manual labor and $ and then it works only half as well as planned. But always looking for ways to make things best. smile Keep up the good work and pass it on, it might save me some time and labor. smile
Merry Christmas everyone.
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Think you could kind of accomplish the same effect as the panels with net by lining up tightly spaced brush piles?


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I main disadvantage to brush as dense cover is it does not last long in the pond. Smallest twigs decompose relatively quickly after a year or two and need to be periodically replaced if the goal is dense cover as reuge. Larger tree limbs work pretty good as 'fluffy' open type cover. I use twiggy tree branches placed along shore for YP egg laying habitat. Smaller twigs rarely last two years. Grass shrimp actually need and thrive best in cover that is more finely divided than twigs on tree banches. Fine structure similar to evergreen branches with the needless is better type of cover for the grass shrimp than regular tree branches. The best cover type for grass shrimp is not desired by anglers in ponds because this type of cover is hard to fish in.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 12/24/14 10:54 AM.

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Originally Posted By: Pat Williamson
Snrub

Actually a good idea if the fish mesh is readily available

Pat W


You can get various plastic netting/fencing in the big box hardware/lumber stores. It surely is not as good quality as regular plastic fish netting, but it is readily available. Something pretty reasonably priced for a long piece is the safety fencing used in construction to fence off areas so people will not fall into holes, etc.. It has fairly large openings but would at least keep the large fish out. I would think some netting with holes about half that size would be better though.


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Merry Christmas to All smile
After a Family gathering on Christmas Eve, I have some quit time this morning before this Great Day begins. So I would like to a moment to see what you fine people think about this. What if I was to make a small area of lets say 30x30' and closed in with some type of small mesh 1/4" +or-. This is a new pond so not much for the grass shrimp to eat. But I am thinking Willow limbs along the bank. They stay green for a couple of weeks, slowly dying and providing food and cover to the shrimp. Hoping the shrimp will eat the willow leaves and replacing the willows as needed. Would this give the shrimp a place to reproduce until you say open the gates. Let the shrimp disperse into the bigger world of the pond. You think that might work?
I am thinking a pond full of 3" CNBG along with the RES are going to have a feast if I release 1000 this spring. Pat said he does not think of it as work when he collects the shrimp and Gams but I am thinking a lot of work to trap a thousand or so and with all that work I hate to see the fish lick their lips for 1 day feast frown


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I don't know what they eat. But in any case I wouldn't use willow branches unless you want a lot of willows growing in your pond..... I'd bet at least some will root.......


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