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TGW1 #395099 12/17/14 09:10 AM
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Thanks for the support from everyone here. It's nice to have someone to bounce things off of. To keep things rolling, I thought I would ask a few things and adjust if necessary.
First of all, in my emails with Todd @ Overtons, he told me I could go ahead with additional stocking as long as we keep an eye on the weather, adjusting stocking date should new cold fronts show up.
And I continue to feed using the Texas hunter which is set up at 1 sec feeding at 4:30pm. And yesterday the weather was nice with a 70 degree day. I watched the FH and CNBG and RES feed for 20 min. They became more active 10 min after the feeder threw out the Cargels feed.
Here is a question for you. My water is bordered with red clay. I am thinking of having 12 yds of larger size pea gravel delivered. My thinking is for RES spawning beds. It would be added to the sloops of the banks. The pond still need to fill another 3'. Is this worth the money spent? Will it improve RES population ?
Another question. How old or what size do the CNBG and RES spawn? Am I better off to get the remainder of the CNBG and RES fish stocking in the pond now or wit till March 1. If I wait, will the newbies, spawn in May as the water temps rise? Or will the fish be to young to spawn? The newbies will probably be in the 2 to 3" size. Thanks
Tracy


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Tracy
TGW1 #395102 12/17/14 09:19 AM
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I'm only going to address the question of rock lining the perimeter of the pond and leave the other parts to those who know what they are talking about.

I like the rock I put around my pond banks (and down to about 3' like you propose).

Here is a thread that might be helpful in your deliberation.

Rock lining a pond bank

There are some other links within that thread that are probably better than the thread linked itself.


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Tracy
Email Todd on whether to add CNBG now or spring- he has 3-6" CNBG now that will spawn in the spring.

Aw your RES eating pellets? If so how did you feed train them? I didn't think that they responded well to pellets


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TGW1 #395142 12/17/14 07:57 PM
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Snrub, Thank you for the information. I may need the rock to improve water clarity at some point in time, and the photos of your banks with the rock looks good and was helpful in clearing up the cloudy water. I was looking for a way to possibly improve on RES reproduction. And was hoping someone had tried adding gravel beds to their pond. And I was hoping someone had some experience with improving RES spawning beds, over E Texas native clays. I did spread out some sand on one end of the pond for spawning ground for CNBG and LMB.
Pat, I don't know if the Res were actively feeding and I should have just said the forage fish were feeding. I only hope the Red Ears were in the group smile


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Tracy
TGW1 #395150 12/17/14 10:33 PM
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In a clients pond where there are RES, they prefer to spawn on 1/4"-2" river rock "beds" that he put in for SMB spawning habitat vs. the sand bottom of the ponds.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
TGW1 #395162 12/18/14 08:30 AM
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Thanks esshup smile That is what I was wondering about. I was Bass fishing on Toledo Bend yr's ago and while throwing a spinner bait, I caught an RES that was in the 12" or better. It was so big I did not recognize what it was at first. And that size fish is what I would like to have in the pond some day. So before I spend the $ for the addition of the larger size pea gravel, I was hoping someone here would give their experience with such things. And esshup thanks. The cost for 12 yds of the gravel delivered is going to be around $900, and my time and effort to spred it around. That's a lot of $ if it is a waste or no improvement for spawning RES.


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Tracy
TGW1 #395164 12/18/14 08:38 AM
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If you want it to last longer where you put it, put geotextile fabric under it so the rocks don't work their way into the clay bottom over time.

If you really want to get the best use from the gravel that you put in the pond, wait until after the fish have spawned once in the pond, and you see where in the pond they like to nest. Then put the gravel there. I made shallow areas in my pond when I designed it specifically for the fish to spawn on. The first year or two, they ignored that area and spawned on the opposite side of the pond. Then the next year they used that area, then the following year they went back to where the spawned the first two years.

It seems that the fish weren't on the same page as I was......

In my clients pond, he had the spawning beds scattered all around the perimeter of the pond, and not all of them have RES using them.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
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Originally Posted By: esshup
If you want it to last longer where you put it, put geotextile fabric under it so the rocks don't work their way into the clay bottom over time...

Scott, any recommendations as to the actual specs of the fabric?


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Not really. There's a LOT of different grades out there, and it all depends on your pocketbook. I try and use material that will allow for no seams or overlapping of material if possible.

Under the riprap that I have in my pond, the material looks like felt and was 14' wide. IIRC it was $10/linear foot.


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
TGW1 #395241 12/19/14 08:52 AM
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Rubber pond liner underlayment is cheap, thick, and doesn't biodegrade. It may be the same stuff for all I know. Just a wider availability around here.

What about using sleds, kiddie pools, etc nailed to the bottom to hold the gravel? Fill 'em up, drag 'em in, nail 'em in place? Would them sticking up off the bottom deter fishes nesting in them?

TGW1 #395244 12/19/14 09:38 AM
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Kiddy pools !! I like that idea, I have an 18 year old grandson I might be able to get his help with this smile I can already see how it might be fun to watch us sink these pools smile The things I do! always looks easier that it turns out to be lol


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Tracy
TGW1 #395247 12/19/14 10:10 AM
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In the archives there is a picture in the cover/structure thread of using round sled saucers filled with gravel for spawning beds....


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
TGW1 #395251 12/19/14 12:35 PM
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essup, when I go to the archives , I usually get a Data based problem and am not able to pull up the information. I'm not sure what the problem is. An example would be in the crawfish archives where I was looking on information on paper shells, all I get is a blocked out area stating data based problem. Any ideas here?


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Tracy
TGW1 #395296 12/19/14 10:55 PM
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I know how why it happened, and I can tell you what to change to view the links, but I don't know how to fix it.

If you click on one of the links and you get the database error message, if you look in the "http" window at the top of the page (I don't know what it's called - I'm not that computer literate) it will show this:

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=110188&fpart=1

The only way that I know how to read that link is to change what is shown in the window manually. Here's what you do.

delete http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=110188&fpart=1

and move the "forums" part to here http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=110188&fpart=1

Then click on the refresh button in the browser and the link should open.

It's better if you do it in a 2nd window that you open. Easier to see what you are doing that way.

Clear as mud???

The forum was hacked a while back and when it came back on-line a lot of the old links were corrupted/broken. That's the only way that I know how to make them readable, but it's not a permanent fix - I don't know how to do that.


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
TGW1 #395321 12/20/14 09:13 AM
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Thanks esshup, I don't understand why anyone would want to hack this site. makes no since to me, the knowledge and experience and wisdom offered is worth a lot. But I don't think it is something u can exchange for $$. Friendships discovered because of we want to make the world a better place through fishing and land improvements and raising better fish. smile


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Tracy
TGW1 #395324 12/20/14 09:52 AM
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Us moderators deal with spammers on a daily basis, most of it happens behind the scenes and the regular members don't even know it happened. Possibly one of them got upset that we banned them and found a way to do damage? Just a guess tho.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
TGW1 #395385 12/21/14 12:41 PM
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As Dave Davidson commented here " A man can dream" smile. You Good People, have been good enough to make some recommendation here and so let me pick your brain as I need lots of help since the older I get, my brain functions slower. So, in reading old post, I found where a 5lb 12.8 oz RES was caught in Arizona. And I have shown interest here in the possibility of building and or improving spawning beds for RES in my new pond. Next question is, how to get the RES to gain wt to Trophy RES? Can it be done in a 3.5 acre fishery? Pond will have LMB and HSB as the preferred big fish. But can a pond of this size only have two? Since the RES feed on Snails as their primary diet, they may not compete for the same forage as the LMB and HSB. I know a larger RES will feed on FH minnows but?? What about crawfish stocking (papershells) and can the preferred snails be stocked ? Are Grass shrimp a preferred diet of RES? And since this pond is new, and no grass is there, How and when do you stalk the shrimp?
And as a side note, I floated my 12X16' 9 barrel pier this week after a good rain. Built it with my Grandson on the pond bottom and let the water come up to get it floating. smile


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Tracy
TGW1 #395404 12/22/14 08:10 AM
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I am not a RES expert. However, I've never been sure, and doubt, that they feed on snails as a primary diet. They certainly can feed on snails more effectively than other fish. But, like most fish, they are opportunists and will eat anything smaller that comes their way.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
TGW1 #395415 12/22/14 10:24 AM
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Here are actual pics of Redear beds/bedding.
















Last edited by ewest; 12/22/14 10:25 AM.















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Ewest

Hope you are right. RES are my favorite fish but in a new pond there's few if any snails yet. I, like many on here want RES but it seems not that much is known about them and their eating habits. Think u are right that they will eat what is in front of them


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Pat see this re RES food items.

As an info source I am adding 2 charts on what lepomis eat. In short like all predatory fish - they eat what they can.


http://www.fishbase.org/Summary/SpeciesSummary.php?id=3378 redear sunfish

Trans. Am. Fish. Soc., 107(5): 713-719, 1978

¸ Copyright by the American Fisheries Society, 1978

A Discriminant Functions Analysis of Sunfish (Lepomis)

Food Habits and Feeding Niche Segregation in the

Lake Pontchartrain, Louisiana Estuary

WAYNE J. DESSELLE, MICHAEL A. POIRRIER, JAMES S. ROGERS, AND

ROBERT C. CASHNER



Bluegill, Lepomis macrochirus , Green Sunfish, Lepomis cyanellus , Redear Sunfish, Lepomis microlophus ,

Pumpkinseed, Lepomis gibbosus , Longear Sunfish, Lepomis megalotis , Redbreast Sunfish, Lepomis auritus
















From another AFS study



















TGW1 #395441 12/22/14 03:06 PM
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Ewest, do you find it odd that in the first chart the only fish eating palomonetes (grass shrimp) are spotted sunfish and warmouth? BG and RES check marks are glaringly missing.

BG and RES don't eat grass shrimp???????


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BG totally eat grass shrimp. And I bet that RES would also. Maybe in this particular study the grass shrimp occupied an area frequented mostly by spots and warmouth?


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Sprkplug

If that's the case- which I'm sure it is - how can I do the shrimp thing without grass or pond weed? One year old pond is void of weeds so far. I can get plenty of shrimp from a creek but the won't make it w/ out grass . Is it advised to put vegetation in or none at all? If so which is the least bad


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I think it was Shorty that told me in an earlier post that the PK shrimp will also use rocks and rubble as cover. As I recall his story, he had some in an aquarium with some RES. He figured the RES had eaten them all, but when cleaning out the aquarium of the rocks, lots of PK shrimp were hidden in the rocks, indicating at least some of them were able to avoid predation by using the aquarium rocks for cover.

Hopefully he will see this and say for sure I got the story right. I had expressed the same concern as you Pat, but my forage pond had lots of 2-3" rocks for cover, so Shorty thought they would be ok. I stocked the shrimp during the early summer, and this fall using a dip net was able to net a few. So far, so good. I will be anxious come spring to see how many I can find.

Links to other threads about PK shrimp.
2014 PK shrimp
2010 PK shrimp
Any benefit from shrimp?
2009 shrimp order


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