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Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57
Ugh, every few months someone mentions the antifreeze incident at PB V? The bar was closed, Josh was thirsty. Pretty simple mistake, he's paid his dues, let's move on, please.


That Josh is one tough hombre.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Originally Posted By: sprkplug


If you have documented, scientific proof that it is not harmful to feed all winter, in cold water, please share those resources with all of us so that we can discuss those findings.


Originally Posted By: Jason007

My fish most certainly have more than they can eat. None of them have died. All they have done is grow. It's not like I have any way to cut off their feeding as Mr. Snrub has suggested. Now on the other hand, I can stop feeding high protein pellets, but that is in no way going to stop the fish from feeding on other critters that are also high in protein.

For fish to grow, they have to eat. And they will. Whether you stop feeding them or not......if they have a forage base, they ARE going to eat. Sure.....that does slow down given certain temperatures. But feeding tendencies do not.....and will not, stop.

Here's the other thing about digestion and metabolism.
Just because it gets cold, a fish does not lose its digestive abilities. The necessary bodily fluids are still there and they still break down consumed forage the exact same way. That is not what changes when the water gets cold. It doesn't change.


What changes is the fish become inactive as temperatures drop, burning far less calories due to inactivity. In turn it requires far less forage/calories to maintain its weight, or even add weight.

In short , if a fish is going to eat itself to death, and you have a forage base that allows for it. Then you can't stop it.



Everything in red italic is scientific fact. So lets debate these findings.

Last edited by Jason007; 12/11/14 07:39 PM.
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It may be fact...but right now, in the absence of proof, it's simply opinion. Saying and believing does not make something correct. Show me peer-reviewed, documented reports on the effects of feeding fish meal based, high protein pelleted feed during cold water periods and we can begin.

I'm fully aware that my fish will eat all winter long...I'm an avid ice angler. I'm not concerned about my fish getting an upset tummy from foraging on bloodworms, or yoy species. It's the processed, non-hydrated, pelleted feed that I'm curious about. If I can feed it to my bluegills all winter long, awesome. I'll start tomorrow.

But in the absence of someone with the appropriate credentials showing me proof that it's okay, I'm going to pass. I don't blame you for wanting to feed all winter, and I hope that you do. Maybe we can all learn a thing or two by you volunteering your fish as test mules...I believe that's a core philosophy of what PondBoss is all about after all, the sharing of accurate information.

I say pour the feed to em'. I'll watch, and hopefully learn a thing or two.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Amen!!!


...when in doubt...set the hook...
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Furthermore, your fish are not staying in the coldest parts of the water column. Fish, bass in particular go deep. Where the water is warmer. What happens when the water is warmer? The metabolism speeds up.

They may feed on top of the water when you throw your pellets out there, but they are not staying there. My bream are in deeper water now. They come up to feed.........they feed......and then back into the depths they disappear.

And yes,,,we can use my fish as test mules. Just got finished feeding. They ate very well this evening. Boiling the water. I don't mind being the test subject because I know what the outcome is going to be.

Winter is not in full swing yet. My fish may indeed slow down. In fact, I expect them to. But I fully intend to feed them , until they do. As long as they are eating like they are now, I'm going to continue feeding even if the water temperature goes to 33 degrees.

Like I said. I know the outcome. This , digestive tract MYTH/folklore..associated with Game fish, of all things..along with everything else associated with it......is going to go bye bye.

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Good for you. Be sure and document everything, so your experiment can be repeated, and the results duplicated by experts. After all, one pond in Louisiana does not a paradigm shift make.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57
Ugh, every few months someone mentions the antifreeze incident at PB V? The bar was closed, Josh was thirsty. Pretty simple mistake, he's paid his dues, let's move on, please.

I'm not sure I can let it go so easily.....it was JUNE when we were at Richmond Mills, for Gosh sakes. And he never mentioned that he was worried about overheating.

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Originally Posted By: sprkplug
Good for you. Be sure and document everything, so your experiment can be repeated, and the results duplicated by experts. After all, one pond in Louisiana does not a paradigm shift make.




Yes I know.
Even after I prove the myth , entirely incorrect......there will still be quite a few who will swear that nothing was proven and they will still be terrified, in the name of ( the sky is falling),, to feed their fish a single pellet, if the water temp is below 55 degrees.

So having said that, I'm just gonna go ahead and do it.
I'm calling BS on the the scenario in all its imaginary glory. I'm also going to say it again. It's folklore, it's a myth, and unproven myth at that.

While everyone wants my scientific facts, I have not yet seen one single person give me any scientific fact that pellet feeding in cooler weather has caused a mass fish extinction in their pond. What I have seen , however, is quite a few people who have let fear of the unknown, dictate their ability to boldly go where no man has gone before. lol

The one and only thing I have found discussing this load of crap, for lack of a better term is here.
http://faq.gardenweb.com/faq/lists/ponds/2002053105025934.html
As it pertains to .... Koi/goldfish in little bity bath tub sized ponds.....from none other than the wild fish experts at ....what was it again? Oh yes....Garden web. That's right , garden web. Which is where I'm assuming most of this is coming from. Which of course has nothing to do with Largemouth Bass, CNBG, catfish, stripers......or probably any other wild game fish........particularly Bass and bream, who will scavenge on frogs, some of which have poison, small turtles with hard shells, crawfish with hard shells, snails and just about anything else they can get their mouth around.

Further evidence adding to the un-scientific facts that are indeed building up like an unstoppable force.
I see absolutely ZERO lawsuits leveed against any pellet feed producer alleging that Purina or any other brand of fingerling food and/or gamefish food has caused mass extinction in ponds across America, during the winter months. And I know I'm not the only one practicing this.








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Jack and Prestone..that's gonna have some kinda' bite.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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I am following the advice of the guys at Keystone. They have not steered me wrong. I figure they are 40 miles straight east of me and have been in the fish business for years. I asked them when to stop feeding in the fall. The reply I got was nothing about water temp or anything else. It was simple. When the fish drastically reduce taking the pellets, stop feeding.

Last edited by Bill D.; 12/11/14 07:12 PM.

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Originally Posted By: Bill D.
I am following the advice of the guys at Keystone. They have not steered me wrong. I figure they are 40 miles straight east of me and have been in the fish business for years. I asked them when to stop feeding in the fall. The reply I got was nothing about water temp or anything else. It was simple. When the fish drastically reduce taking the pellets, stop feeding.


And here we have a WINNER!
DING DING DING.

Exactly.

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For me, that shut off on taking pellets was about a month ago. So no more till spring. Next question....so when do you start feeding in the spring?!!!!


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Originally Posted By: Jason007
Originally Posted By: sprkplug


If you have documented, scientific proof that it is not harmful to feed all winter, in cold water, please share those resources with all of us so that we can discuss those findings.


Originally Posted By: Jason007
[quote=Cecil Baird1]
My fish most certainly have more than they can eat. None of them have died. All they have done is grow. It's not like I have any way to cut off their feeding as Mr. Snrub has suggested. Now on the other hand, I can stop feeding high protein pellets, but that is in no way going to stop the fish from feeding on other critters that are also high in protein.

For fish to grow, they have to eat. And they will. Whether you stop feeding them or not......if they have a forage base, they ARE going to eat. Sure.....that does slow down given certain temperatures. But feeding tendencies do not.....and will not, stop.

Here's the other thing about digestion and metabolism.
Just because it gets cold, a fish does not lose its digestive abilities. The necessary bodily fluids are still there and they still break down consumed forage the exact same way. That is not what changes when the water gets cold. It doesn't change.


What changes is the fish become inactive as temperatures drop, burning far less calories due to inactivity. In turn it requires far less forage/calories to maintain its weight, or even add weight.

In short , if a fish is going to eat itself to death, and you have a forage base that allows for it. Then you can't stop it.



Everything in red italic is scientific fact. So lets debate these findings.


Why does that look like a quote from me when it isn't?

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 12/11/14 07:33 PM.

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Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1


Why does that look like a quote from me when it isn't?


It was something I typed to you. Sparkplug wanted facts , so I cited facts. And they are facts. Fixed.

Sorry about that.

Last edited by Jason007; 12/11/14 07:40 PM.
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Guys,

I got into a bad situation in a thread before. Just agree to disagree and move on. There is no definitive answer as far as I can see. Just IMHO.

Bill


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Originally Posted By: Bill D.
Guys,

I got into a bad situation in a thread before. Just agree to disagree and move on. There is no definitive answer as far as I can see. Just IMHO.

Bill


Yes there is a definitive answer. You answered it correctly. And I am going to prove it.

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Originally Posted By: Bill D.
Guys,

I got into a bad situation in a thread before. Just agree to disagree and move on. There is no definitive answer as far as I can see. Just IMHO.

Bill


Yep.

Sprkplug smiles, shakes head, and moves on.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Bill:
re: Spring feeding
Try feeding in the same place and the same time that you stopped feeding in the Fall, but when the water temps (not air temps) are in the upper 50's to low 60's. If the fish start eating, feed 'em. If not, wait another 5 degrees and try again.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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One thing I've learned from this site is that everything regarding fish is regional. My thoughts, opinions and advice on fish feeding and management isn't worth diddley when I'm talking to guys up North. Even after many years of messing with ponds, I am absolutely unqualified to give advice or opinions to anyone from temps and climates unlike my own.

Stocking rates of predator/prey come to mind. In warm climates we get bass heavy and bluegill light without extensive management. The reverse is true for those in cold country. And, it took me a long time to realize that. Generally, never say never, fish in different geographic locations just act and feed differently. That has to be regarded when initially stocking and forever when managing.

Nate is growing monster fish in ice fishing country. To sustain that growth rate his fish just about have to be eating 12 months of the year. Mine don't about 50 miles South of Oklahoma when I get a temp drop. But they GENERALLY start again when temps improve.

I have 2 ponds that are 1/2 mile apart that act differently. Why? Beats me.

I started pond management and fishing after years of competing in bass tournaments. I had to unlearn a lot of things. I'm still unlearning and relearning. And, I've killed a lot of fish when I started wondering what would happen if.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
One thing I've learned from this site is that everything regarding fish is regional. My thoughts, opinions and advice on fish feeding and management isn't worth diddley when I'm talking to guys up North. Even after many years of messing with ponds, I am absolutely unqualified to give advice or opinions to anyone from temps and climates unlike my own.

Stocking rates of predator/prey come to mind. In warm climates we get bass heavy and bluegill light without extensive management. The reverse is true for those in cold country. And, it took me a long time to realize that. Generally, never say never, fish in different geographic locations just act and feed differently. That has to be regarded when initially stocking and forever when managing.

Nate is growing monster fish in ice fishing country. To sustain that growth rate his fish just about have to be eating 12 months of the year. Mine don't about 50 miles South of Oklahoma when I get a temp drop. But they GENERALLY start again when temps improve.

I have 2 ponds that are 1/2 mile apart that act differently. Why? Beats me.

I started pond management and fishing after years of competing in bass tournaments. I had to unlearn a lot of things. I'm still unlearning and relearning. And, I've killed a lot of fish when I started wondering what would happen if.

This is the BEST advice I have ever seen posted on this forum!
I have failed repeatedly to make this point, but only Dave D. has the experience and wisdom to make this point - thanks Dave!
George Glazener



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Original george #173 (22 June 2002)




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Experience? Yep

Wisdom ???????????


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Originally Posted By: esshup
Bill:
re: Spring feeding
Try feeding in the same place and the same time that you stopped feeding in the Fall, but when the water temps (not air temps) are in the upper 50's to low 60's. If the fish start eating, feed 'em. If not, wait another 5 degrees and try again.


Thanks Esshup. Are you talking surface temp?


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Bill D. - Basically yes, within a couple feet of the surface.

You can use a swimming pool thermometer, indoor/outdoor thermometer that is hard wired, one of those thermometers made for fishing, etc.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


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Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
One thing I've learned from this site is that everything regarding fish is regional. My thoughts, opinions and advice on fish feeding and management isn't worth diddley when I'm talking to guys up North. Even after many years of messing with ponds, I am absolutely unqualified to give advice or opinions to anyone from temps and climates unlike my own.

Stocking rates of predator/prey come to mind. In warm climates we get bass heavy and bluegill light without extensive management. The reverse is true for those in cold country. And, it took me a long time to realize that. Generally, never say never, fish in different geographic locations just act and feed differently. That has to be regarded when initially stocking and forever when managing.

Nate is growing monster fish in ice fishing country. To sustain that growth rate his fish just about have to be eating 12 months of the year. Mine don't about 50 miles South of Oklahoma when I get a temp drop. But they GENERALLY start again when temps improve.

I have 2 ponds that are 1/2 mile apart that act differently. Why? Beats me.

I started pond management and fishing after years of competing in bass tournaments. I had to unlearn a lot of things. I'm still unlearning and relearning. And, I've killed a lot of fish when I started wondering what would happen if.


Well, since everyone thinks this is the most wonderful advice they ever heard,, the one and only constant that matters , remains. Fish are going to eat whether anyone likes it or not. They are not going to eat themselves to death , as has been suggested here. Killing fish is one thing.......but a fish killing itself from over eating is quite another. Garden web....let me say this again, Garden web, The authority on wild game fish , has a lot of ole boys who manage ponds, scared.

It has nothing to do with " what if" in this particular matter.
If the fish are going to eat....feed them. It's not going to harm a single thing. Now on the other hand , if you go spraying a mat of FA that covers your entire pond in one swoop.........you can expect to kill your fish...no what ifs there.

But I can tell you with 100% certainty.....you're not going to kill your fish by feeding them. I don't care what " Garden Web" says.
It's just like I said before........0 law suits due to massive fish kills over winter due to feeding aqua max.......has NEVER ever happened and will never ever happen. Never.

To the OP who posted this topic.......Feed your fish. If you feed them, they will come.

All of this is a myth........internet rhetoric.........complete BS to put it harshly.

And look, Im not trying to offend any of you guys.
As far as Im concerned, you're overwhelmingly helpful and a bunch of good ole boys with a lot of experience in managing ponds. Nothing can take that away from this site. The truth is what it is no matter who wants to believe it. I'm fond of you folks. So don't get mad.

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Engaging in meaningful discourse and debating concepts and theories is one of the reasons I'm here, for expand my education, and I know Bob and Mike [owners of Pond Boss] encourage it. However, I expect everyone to remain respectful regardless of the position they may adopt and not post recklessly. Bear in mind Sparkplug, Dave, Esshup and George have many many seasons of practical, hands on, scientific experience. These guys are my brothers, and I owe them all a debt of gratitude - please be respectful when alluding to them in a post. It's just how we do things here - aspire to a higher standard and you'll be treated accordingly. Seems fair to me.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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