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#394029 - 12/05/14 06:36 PM Re: I think I'm going to be sick [Re: overtonfisheries]
JKB Offline
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#394032 - 12/05/14 07:08 PM Re: I think I'm going to be sick [Re: one more cast]
sprkplug Offline
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Registered: 06/02/08
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Loc: Freedom, Indiana
One osprey, one LMB?

He's already caught two LMB, where does the bird theory stand if he catches more? And, what if those fish managed to spawn?

Those fish got there somehow. If not high water, bucket stocking, or hitchiking, then how? I'm curious if there are any more caught.
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

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#394033 - 12/05/14 07:20 PM Re: I think I'm going to be sick [Re: one more cast]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5654
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Ok. Since everybody is throwing out ideas...The bass are skinny. Does that mean they were stocked recently? Does not sound like they ran out of forage if they have been in there a while. I read an old thread a few days ago on skinny bass. That one talked about a parasite that was only affecting the bass and not the forage fish. Maybe you LMB are wild bass that birds, people, Fedex, UPS or other stocked. Maybe check one of those skinny bass, if you catch anymore, to see stomach/intestine content to be safe? Would hate to see you infect those Camelots! Just saying, if you don't know where they came from, it might be worth a little effort to make sure they are at least healthy before exposing expensive fish.


Edited by Bill D. (12/05/14 07:43 PM)
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#394034 - 12/05/14 07:34 PM Re: I think I'm going to be sick [Re: sprkplug]
JKB Offline
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#394036 - 12/05/14 07:51 PM Re: I think I'm going to be sick [Re: one more cast]
sprkplug Offline
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I know JKB, I wasn't disagreeing with you, I simply have a hard time wrapping my mind around the bird stocking thing. In Todd's case, it sounds like the osprey dropped the fish into a nearby pond? Well, if OMC has a nearby BOW, then perhaps...if the osprey didn't injure/kill the fish, and IF if happened at least one more time.

BUT....if there's a nearby BOW, then how can one be sure that a high water event didn't bring the fish in, or it arrived in a bucket/stringer?

If there is no nearby water, then how far are we willing to allow an osprey to carry a live, 12" LMB? How much credit and determination are we allowing this bird? An accidental drop? Okay, but wouldn't the fish most likely be injured?

If it were my pond, I would want to do my best to determine how those fish got in there, in order to try and prevent it happening again. We have four theories presented, high water event, bucket stocking, hitchhiking, and bird stocking. In my opinion, bird stocking is the least plausible, although I'm certainly not an authority.

The other three possibilities have been dismissed by OMC. So either there's another scenario that all of us have overlooked, or one of the previously mentioned four is actually correct.
As much as I would like to believe in bird stocking, my money is still on one of the other three.

Narrow it down a little more... I agree with what others have said, I think the fish are too skinny to have been there long if in fact there is that much forage present. Leaving bucket or high water as the primary suspects? Does it sound logical, or have I overlooked something?


Edited by sprkplug (12/05/14 07:57 PM)
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

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#394037 - 12/05/14 08:04 PM Re: I think I'm going to be sick [Re: one more cast]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5654
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Sprkplug,

To summarize, the known facts:

1) Both fish were the same size.
2) Both fish were skinny.
3) New feeding activity on surface just noticed.
4) Pond has good forage

Has there been a recent high water event in that area?

Which of your scenarios fit all the facts?


Edited by Bill D. (12/05/14 08:06 PM)
_________________________

You'll never know what ya can catch unless you wet a line!

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#394038 - 12/05/14 08:12 PM Re: I think I'm going to be sick [Re: one more cast]
sprkplug Offline
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Loc: Freedom, Indiana
Bill, do the implications point to the bass being recent arrivals? Seemingly so, so the question is has there been a recent high water event?

If yes, then my vote is for high water or bucket.

If no, then I'm going with bucket.

Thoughts?
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

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#394039 - 12/05/14 08:16 PM Re: I think I'm going to be sick [Re: one more cast]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5654
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Sprkplug,

With the information available, I see no other conclusion than yours.

Another good question would be is there a BOW in the near vicinity that is over populated with LMB?
_________________________

You'll never know what ya can catch unless you wet a line!

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#394040 - 12/05/14 08:20 PM Re: I think I'm going to be sick [Re: one more cast]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5654
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Food for thought....

How far is the pond from that gate and how far can you throw a fish?
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You'll never know what ya can catch unless you wet a line!

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#394041 - 12/05/14 08:25 PM Re: I think I'm going to be sick [Re: one more cast]
Bill Cody Offline
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I think the most likely possibility is being narrowed down. Members make a very good case that these bass were recently stocked due to their skinny body condition. If they had been in there for months (Overton stocking) they would be noticeably plump; definitely fatter than those skinny ones pictured. So most of my money is on they were not stocked by Overton. From the picture, it looks like these bass came from a typical overcrowed bass pond. "Hey I know of a nearby pond that has lots of bass, lets go catch a few and put them in OMC's new pond down the road. It is full of bait fish." I don't think these bass have been in the new pond very long since they are still skinny. And not just one skinny bass but at least two, indicating to me it is not skinny due to a health issue. If it were my bass I would collect scale or otolith samples and have them analyzed (aged) for age of the bass. They might be 2-3 yrs old.

I put the pond overflow option way down on the list next to bird stocking., especially since the pond is in OMC's front yard, and he would have easily seen a flooding event. If these bass were dropped into the new pond by a bird there would be obvious talon or beak marks on the bass; the two bass look clean to me.

If you set a bread/fish/dog food baited minnow trap (1/4"mesh) in the pond, you should be able to catch around 50-100 FHM in an overnight trap set or a morning to evening set (8-12hrs).

I would quiz all my local relatives that own fish poles. OMC maybe you have "friends" that you do not know about?


Edited by Bill Cody (12/05/14 08:37 PM)
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#394042 - 12/05/14 08:36 PM Re: I think I'm going to be sick [Re: one more cast]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5654
Loc: Boone County Illinois
If the pond is not far from the gate or nearest property line, it might prove enlightening walking around the ground in those areas to see if you have any dead LMB.


Edited by Bill D. (12/05/14 08:42 PM)
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#394043 - 12/05/14 08:39 PM Re: I think I'm going to be sick [Re: one more cast]
Bill Cody Offline
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It also seems odd to me that if there were only two 12" LMB in a 5 ac pond you quickly caught both of them when the pond is "full" of baitfish.


Edited by Bill Cody (12/05/14 08:40 PM)
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#394044 - 12/05/14 08:49 PM Re: I think I'm going to be sick [Re: Bill D.]
sprkplug Offline
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Loc: Freedom, Indiana
Originally Posted By: Bill D.
Sprkplug,

With the information available
, I see no other conclusion than yours.

Another good question would be is there a BOW in the near vicinity that is over populated with LMB?


Key point here. Can we see the full picture long distance?

I'm in agreement with Bill Cody, in that establishing what is in the pond right now would be a priority for me.
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

Top
#394045 - 12/05/14 08:50 PM Re: I think I'm going to be sick [Re: Bill Cody]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5654
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
It also seems odd to me that if there were only two 12" LMB in a 5 ac pond you quickly caught both of them when the pond is "full" of baitfish.


Also, in a 5 acre pond would you notice only 2 fish feeding on the surface as unusual activity?
_________________________

You'll never know what ya can catch unless you wet a line!

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#394048 - 12/05/14 09:02 PM Re: I think I'm going to be sick [Re: Bill Cody]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5654
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Originally Posted By: Bill Cody

I would quiz all my local relatives that own fish poles. OMC maybe you have "friends" that you do not know about?


OMC seems adamant that no one can access his property thru his gate without his knowledge. That leaves jumping the fence or throwing the fish. With 3 big dogs on guard....I am still with throwing the fish unless he comes back that it is too far.
_________________________

You'll never know what ya can catch unless you wet a line!

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#394049 - 12/05/14 09:08 PM Re: I think I'm going to be sick [Re: one more cast]
Bill Cody Offline
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Posts: 12520
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If the dogs know the relatives the dogs are not a threat, especially if you have some biscuits.
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Keep This Forum Viable, Read Pond Boss Magazine -
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#394050 - 12/05/14 09:09 PM Re: I think I'm going to be sick [Re: one more cast]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5654
Loc: Boone County Illinois
Point taken!
_________________________

You'll never know what ya can catch unless you wet a line!

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#394051 - 12/05/14 09:22 PM Re: I think I'm going to be sick [Re: one more cast]
Bill D. Offline


Registered: 10/19/14
Posts: 5654
Loc: Boone County Illinois
I just realized a fact was left off the list. Not as many FHM observed lately. If this is an unsolicited bucket stock, it may not be a one time event. There may have been previous stockings.

I would do some serious fishing to see.


Edited by Bill D. (12/05/14 09:24 PM)
_________________________

You'll never know what ya can catch unless you wet a line!

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#394053 - 12/05/14 09:54 PM Re: I think I'm going to be sick [Re: Bill D.]
Pat Williamson Offline


Registered: 08/08/14
Posts: 2414
Loc: Oakwood,Texas
As skinny as those bass were they haven't been in there very long or they would have filled out . OMC I think I would keep fishing and see what pops up. Keep an eye on your forage population to see if you need to take more drastic steps this spring before the bass spawn .




Pat W

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#394054 - 12/05/14 10:05 PM Re: I think I'm going to be sick [Re: one more cast]
overtonfisheries Offline
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Registered: 04/25/02
Posts: 882
Loc: East/Central Texas
JKB , I mentioned the osprey incident in order to provide a simple example of an unintended fish introduction, not to suggest this is what happened in this particular case.

Also since we are all human and intrinsically part of nature, I count actions by humans as natures forces as well...


Edited by overtonfisheries (12/05/14 10:05 PM)
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#394056 - 12/05/14 11:06 PM Re: I think I'm going to be sick [Re: one more cast]
CJBS2003 Offline
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In 5 acres, to catch those bass with ease, there's a large number of them.

Overton has a good reputation. I highly doubt it was stock contamination. I strongly believe these bass escaped another BOW during a high water event.
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Men and fish are alike. They both get into trouble when they open their mouths.

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#394059 - 12/05/14 11:39 PM Re: I think I'm going to be sick [Re: CJBS2003]
esshup Offline
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CJ, I take the opposite stand. If the LMB were actively feeding, and were noticed feeding, sight fishing or tossing lures near them could provide an easy way to catch them.

There was only 2 in a clients pond - it was rotenoned after it was drained almost completely.
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#394064 - 12/06/14 05:59 AM Re: I think I'm going to be sick [Re: overtonfisheries]
JKB Offline
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Registered: 12/03/09
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Loc: Michigan
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#394065 - 12/06/14 06:05 AM Re: I think I'm going to be sick [Re: one more cast]
RAH Offline
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Registered: 05/17/09
Posts: 4243
Loc: Indiana, Boone County, 25 mile...
If humans are part of nature, then I guess nothing is excluded from nature and nature has no meaning.

na∑ture
&#712;n&#257;CH&#601;r/Submit
noun
1.
the phenomena of the physical world collectively, including plants, animals, the landscape, and other features and products of the earth, as opposed to humans or human creations.

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#394066 - 12/06/14 07:00 AM Re: I think I'm going to be sick [Re: Bill Cody]
george1 Offline
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Registered: 06/30/07
Posts: 3794
Loc: Plano Texas

OMC, my heart goes out to you but you canít put the genie back in the bottle, no matter who let it out. Itís a given IMO - these skinny bass were not a part of the original May stocking, and were recently stocked.
I would move forward surveying LMB population by hook and line and spring electroshock survey as Todd Overton recommended.

Temps in your area are to be in the mid- 60ís today and I would have my tackle ready awaiting first light to find out how many bass I have in my pond.

You mentioned your plan was to stock Camelot Florida LMB in the spring with existing ample forage, but obviously not possible due to predator invasion.

I stocked 8 adult CB into our 2 acre pond with existing Florida LMB a couple of years ago and immediately began a vigorous culling program, removing every LMB that was not fin clipped. Donít know how many survived having caught and released several CB, but removed some 70+ LMB the past year and culling program moves forward.

FireIsHot is also removing Florida LMB by hook and line and electroshocked last spring and understand he will repeat the program this year. He is currently growing out CB LMB in a brood pond and is seining today so likely not able to respond to this post.

Brood ponds are a valuable asset for pond management to grow out forage and predators to enhance production and to solve problems such as this. Ours have served us well for some 10 years.

Good luck, be positive, depend on Overton for advice and move on for a successful fishery.
George Glazener
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N.E. Texas 2 acre and 1/4 acre ponds
Original george #173 (22 June 2002)





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