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Alright this past May I stocked my five acre pond with 3000 CNBG, 1000 RES and 50lbs of FHM from Overton Fisheries. I have been feeding heavily, keeping a close eye on my water chemistry and I was thinking that everything was great. I was trying to get my forage in good shape and then I was going to stock Camelot Bell LMB in the spring.

I had not made any attempt to catch a fish until last night when I was driving in and saw there was a lot of activity on the top of the water. I thought, hey I'll just check to see how big my CNBG are getting, since I haven't been able to see them very well for the last couple of months due to a good bloom.

So I grabbed a fly rod and on the first two casts I caught two LMB about 12" each, I broke the hook on the only bait I had with me on the second fish and it was almost dark, so I didn't fish anymore, but I assume I could have caught lots more.

How in the world did these get in there?

Is there anything I can do to get them out without starting over?

Why is this thing so skinny, since I have all of the FHM and CNBG in there? You would think they would be really fat since I know that my CNBG had several successful spawns this summer. Unless of course it is over populated with these things.
No I did not look at the fish close when we put them in. It was almost dark when the truck showed up and we just put them in without really checking them out. Besides since it Overton's, I didn't think that I had to worry about it.

I am not saying that is how they got in there, but I can't imagine how else.

It is somewhat strange that for several months, before I got a bloom going, I had about five feet of visibility and went down and looked at all of the bream beds daily and never saw a LMB.

Thanks for your help,
Pat


Last edited by one more cast; 03/16/15 04:22 PM.
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Do you have any 'good' friends, family members, neighbors or good doers that were eager you to help stock your pond? Those bass could have been from this year's hatch of a couple bass stocked early since the hatchlings had lots of food. They may have also been fingerlings stocked with the other fish. Do you still have the receipt of what was stocked from Overtons? A few real early stocked bass could have eaten a lot of the fish stocked by Overtons? You may not have all that much forage available now if a lot of it was consumed early, thus the slender bodied bass.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 12/05/14 11:07 AM.

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I am positive that no one put any fish in to "help me out". The pond is in my front yard, behind a gate no one has my gate code except my 80 plus year old in laws.

Yes I still have the receipt from Overton's.

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I agree that it's odd why that LMB is so skinny.

Keep your chin up though. You've got a lot of forage in there, and hopefully you've only got a few LMB...hopefully!!


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Wow this like an instant replay going on, the same thing is happening to me


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try to fish them out, maybe live bait if your lucky you only have a couple them before they spawn.

Last edited by BobbyRice; 12/05/14 12:02 PM.

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Next step IMO is to check out how much forage you have available. Are you sure there are lots of FHM and small BG? You should be able to set a few minnow traps baited with bread and catch lots of small fish. We can assume that the receipt from Overtons does not have any bass on it?


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If the LMB were human we would simply check their DNA fingerprint and track them backwards to determine 'origin' Could characteristics include genetics link them to their stocking origin?

Here we go again... They could have been bird stocked (not possible), bucket stocked (I watched it happen at my house), but in your case more likely came in with the stocked fish especially since you have more than a few of them.

It seems that since it happens more than 'rarely' that unwanted fish show up with stocked fish that the next thing us customers will want to demand is some sort of proof of the fish being what they were promised to be, similar to certified disease free etc. Seems like there could be some way that suppliers could do random checks of their CNBG, FHM etc and determine (through an independent or 3rd party verification system, or even someday maybe gene tests like they do for asian carp) the percentage of fish that are in the sample and are not supposed to be in the sample of fish netted out that day.

Unwanted LMB can be as bad/hard to control as unwanted asian carp in some ways smile

Since a few unwanted 'extras' can be a nightmare and very expensive to fix, isn't the burden of proof squarely resting on the supplier and not the customer, after the fact, when the supplier can always say that a stray pelican mistakenly burped when flying over and 12 LMB fell into your pond and you couldn't say for sure if that happened or did not happen?

I guess if i was in the fish raising/hauling/stocking business, this would be an important way to separate my business from others and assuring quality and PURITY of the bags of fish and standing behind it would easily make up for the extra efforts of daily quality control checks of my fish supplies.

Last edited by canyoncreek; 12/05/14 12:09 PM.
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Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
Next step IMO is to check out how much forage you have available. Are you sure there are lots of FHM and small BG? You should be able to set a few minnow traps baited with bread and catch lots of small fish. We can assume that the receipt from Overtons does not have any bass on it?


Well I am sure that the receipt does not have bass on it and I am sure that I had at least lots of CNBG a few months ago at my feeder. Though I am sure that I had lots of small ones and I am not sure how many FHM I have left. I do remember thinking back while it was still hot that I wasn't seeing them like I had been.

I think that I will put out a minnow trap tomorrow.

Thanks

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For my part, I really don't see how a fish supplier can give valid guarantees or assurances when you're talking about stocking numbers into the 1,000's.

Fish, ponds, and all that stuff have so many variables, and nothing is absolute.


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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What do you mean it is hard to know for sure when it comes to stocking sunil?, we already know by the DNA tests that thare are NO ASIAN CARP in the Great Lakes!! wink

But it is a good point that if people continue to have unwanted fish show up, at some point the buck stops at the supplier to do something to reassure that customer that got the unwanted fish (and future customers)... or the supplier will have to find some way to remove the unwanted fish from the customers pond confused

Last edited by canyoncreek; 12/05/14 01:44 PM.
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I would fish some more and see if another bass or two comes up. If you are lucky, it is a stray and the problem is already solved.

Here is to hoping! *crosses fingers*

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Originally Posted By: one more cast
Alright this past May I stocked my five acre pond with 3000 CNBG, 1000 RES and 50lbs of FHM from Overton Fisheries. I have been feeding heavily, keeping a close eye on my water chemistry and I was thinking that everything was great. I was trying to get my forage in good shape and then I was going to stock Camelot Bell LMB in the spring.

I had not made any attempt to catch a fish until last night when I was driving in and saw there was a lot of activity on the top of the water. I thought, hey I'll just check to see how big my CNBG are getting, since I haven't been able to see them very well for the last couple of months due to a good bloom.

So I grabbed a fly rod and on the first two casts I caught two LMB about 12" each, I broke the hook on the only bait I had with me on the second fish and it was almost dark, so I didn't fish anymore, but I assume I could have caught lots more.

How in the world did these get in there?

Is there anything I can do to get them out without starting over?

Why is this thing so skinny, since I have all of the FHM and CNBG in there? You would think they would be really fat since I know that my CNBG had several successful spawns this summer. Unless of course it is over populated with these things.
No I did not look at the fish close when we put them in. It was almost dark when the truck showed up and we just put them in without really checking them out. Besides since it Overton's, I didn't think that I had to worry about it.

I am not saying that is how they got in there, but I can't imagine how else.

It is somewhat strange that for several months, before I got a bloom going, I had about five feet of visibility and went down and looked at all of the bream beds daily and never saw a LMB.

Thanks for your help,
Pat


How in the world can you have 12 inch SKINNY LMB in a five acre pond stocked in May with 3000 CNBG, 1000 RES and 50 lbs of FHM?
I just don’t get it!

Skinny LMB with that much forage tells me those fish were not original stockers.

I normally don’t give advice on the forum, but it’s 72 degree weather here today - grab a pole and survey your pond and find out what is going on - cane pole with some trapped FHM or fly rod with Stubby Steves or pellet flies will give some quick answers.

Before I would jump to any conclusions I would sample numbers of species present and overall condition of fish. Fish four quadrants of your pond and let us know what you find?
Good luck!
George



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I'm with George. If there were that many fish stocked in the pond, there's no way the LMB would be that skinny if they were stocked with the other fish. Too many fish of the correct size for them to eat and they'd be looking like footballs.

My bet is bucket stocking. Even behind a locked gate. Unless you are at your pond 24/7 or have cameras viewing it, kids or helpful relatives will dump fish in it. I'd do some questioning of anybody that has access to your pond, and take a look at whomever lives in any houses within 1/2 mile (or more) of the pond. The less times that a pond owner is at their pond, the chances of bucket stocking gets higher.

A client, who has ponds 3/8 mile from any house, and the only kid there is about 7 years old had two 13" LMB put in one of the ponds that didn't have LMB in it. They were first seen chasing small fish near shore. They were skinny like that one, and I KNOW that they weren't in the pond before, as there were only forage fish in there the previous year.


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I agree, the sheer numbers involved would make it difficult. It's one thing to hand sort a few in a bag, but dumping mass quantities out of a tank directly into a pond/lake is another issue entirely.

The HSB I picked up a few weeks ago came with hitchhikers, but the hatchery mentioned that they probably would. Said they would be FHM.

And they were right. I examined each and every one, not because I didn't trust them, but because I can see how easy it would be to end up with something unintended.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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No one has asked about contamination from another BOW via high water. Any chance there?


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Originally Posted By: sprkplug
No one has asked about contamination from another BOW via high water. Any chance there?


My thoughts.

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I just spoke with One More Cast, and I have to say that it is quite regrettable when things don't proceed as planned. We all have had plans that were foiled or just didn't work out as designed, predicted, or hoped for. I understand the frustration, and I share the regret.

It is statistically very unlikely (but not impossible) that those bass came with the load of baitfish. Our fishery biologists, including myself, are involved in handling these fish and loading all of the trucks, and the entire team is well-aware of the importance of quality control in this business.

It is more likely that these were introduced recently, as George makes a very good argument and provides great advise. We agree that the plan for now should be to sample the pond very thoroughly and report the findings.

My suggestion may be to electrofish during the early spring bass pre-spawning season to harvest as many existing largemouth bass as possible, then follow that with the introduction of adult high quality florida bass that are fin-clipped. The nuisance bass can continue to be harvested rod/reel and easily identified by lack of clipped fin.

I would like to thank One More Cast for not casting irrational blame on his fish supplier, and I hope that we can manage around this unfortunate circumstance.


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Originally Posted By: esshup
My bet is bucket stocking. Even behind a locked gate. Unless you are at your pond 24/7 or have cameras viewing it, kids or helpful relatives will dump fish in it. I'd do some questioning of anybody that has access to your pond, and take a look at whomever lives in any houses within 1/2 mile (or more) of the pond. The less times that a pond owner is at their pond, the chances of bucket stocking gets higher.



I honestly have no idea how these fish got in there. I do have to say that I would believe that bucket stocking is the least likely though.

This pond is in my front yard behind a gate. My kids are home schooled, so my wife and kids are at home all day everyday and I have three large dogs outside. Anyone that would consider "helping out" with my stocking knows what I am trying to accomplish and would have to have someone at the house open the gate to let them in. I just don't think that happened.

With that said, I believe that Overton's is a first class fishery and that the odds of these fish coming from them is unlikely.

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Originally Posted By: jludwig
Originally Posted By: sprkplug
No one has asked about contamination from another BOW via high water. Any chance there?


My thoughts.


No chance of that either.

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First, let me say I have only been a member for a couple of months. In that time , I have read lots of threads and can say I have not read anything but fantastic things about Overtons and they would be my hatchery of choice if I lived near enough!

For argument sake, lets say the LMB did get mixed in when stocking the other fish. The LMB are 12 inches now. How long would they have been last May when the pond was stocked? Small enough to possibly go unnoticed or would they have been really noticeable?

Last edited by Bill D.; 12/05/14 05:50 PM.

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One more cast


Did you stock May 2013 or 2014?

As skinny as the pix of bass is it appears that it is a bucket job or depending when you stocked fish and what size CNBG u put in were. If you are still seeing FHMs then to me it looks like someone "helped you out" with your stocking like they did me.

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One More Cast

Have you walked the watershed area? Just wondering if there is any water of any type in your watershed that could have overflowed into the pond. I looked at the map but it is difficult to determine the elevation layout.

We were just talking here in the office, reflecting upon the time that we witnessed an osprey haul a largemouth bass off and drop it in another pond on the farm…

This type of unintended introduction of fish is very common. In fact, we see it all the time…

Mother nature will find a way to move life around.


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Todd it's funny how these fish grow feets and get around! I'm gonna get with you real soon for more goodies

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Most likely a recent introduction. It seems that had it grown from a fingerling to a twelve incher in one year, it certainly wouldn't be skinny.

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