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Tony, here's a question for you, and there's certainly no right or wrong answer. Do you feel the same way about fish or bird mounts?


AL

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Tony, at some point, a lot of older guys start hunting with a camera. I understand that but it seems like that is about like kissing your sister. It's still a kiss but...... Al Hall is now at that stage and I certainly understand it. I'm dang near there but the teenagers that I take hunting certainly aren't. Those guys are apex predators but have learned how to age a deer on the hoof.

And, if the genetics were a one time thing, I might look at it differently. If I catch a really big fish, it is usually at the end of it's life and it has spread its genes. I've never mounted a big fish but let them go back. That fish or deer is also the result of generations of genes that they have also passed on. In the case of a managed pond we have some level of control over what makes up the population. But, not so in wildlife. An obviously inferior buck can mate with a doe with great genetics and the result becomes a wild card.

We are told to shoot spikes. However, there are lot of documented studies showing that some young spikes become outstanding deer. Others never make it. So, we just don't shoot young deer.

I've seen very large deer over a several year span that suddenly I never see again. Although they usually go nocturnal, they are no longer there even on the game cams at night. I figure a cold winter and predators(coyotes) probably got to them. An awful lot of older deer don't survive even our comparatively mild winters. In the case of a buck, the rut that occurs in late fall and early winter really hammers their body. Some get injured in fights that they succumb to. That winter also kills off the preferred browse/forbs/weeds. That's the main reason that I plant the winter wheat in my no hunting area in front of the house. Does it help? I really don't know but figure it can't hurt. I often over seed with turnips to give them the leafy browse that they really prefer over the cereal grains. Once again, I don't really know the result. And, my goal really isn't to try to grow great deer, but just to POSSIBLY help the population in January and February. I'll be putting out a lot of high protein rice bran this Winter.

We enjoy sitting at the window just watching them. We also enjoy making a pitcher of margaritas and sitting back in the brush watching. Those deer are known as Grandma's deer and the teens know that they are off limits around the house. Yeah, they get frustrated but know not to mess with Grandma. She has a mean streak when it comes to her deer. One of the boys told my Grandson that messing with Grandmas deer could get you a whole bunch of whoopass that he wouldn't forget. I doubt that she would really mind but I'm not telling them that.

These guys don't get a free ride. They do some work when there that they consider me too old and feeble to do. One, a new Kid, is incredibly pampered and lazy. I'll soon correct that. And, like it or not, they are always given lectures on drugs, booze, unprotected sex, etc. Does it help? Probably not but it can't hurt. My Dads lectures didn't do much for me. I had to learn on my own and Dad was a champeen lecturer.

Last edited by Dave Davidson1; 11/28/14 07:35 AM.

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Al, I would have to say yes. My first thought when viewing a trophy mount is not one of appreciation, rather I'm wondering about the circumstances that surround it. Was it a deliberate trophy pursuit? Was that big fish taken on a charter, where the goal was one for the wall? Was that trophy turkey sighted on numerous occasions, where killing it evolved into a goal in it's own right? ("I've seen that big gobbler twice now...he's the one I want!")

Or was that trophy fish taken by chance, and that big turkey happened to be the first one that was called up?

And like we've discussed earlier, catching a trophy fish does not automatically mean that the animal has been killed, unlike a turkey or deer. What was the angler's motivation in deciding to keep (kill) it?

As I've stated before, I believe the decision to trophy hunt is a personal one, and should not be decided for you, by someone else. But I do think that trophy hunters, and ALL hunters for that matter, should periodically stop and re-examine their reasons for doing what they do. Is it practical or logical to remove the best genetics? Or is it a case of pride in doing/having/killing the biggest and the best?


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Originally Posted By: sprkplug
Al, I would have to say yes...

Tony, then I completely understand your position.

Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
Tony, at some point, a lot of older guys start hunting with a camera. I understand that but it seems like that is about like kissing your sister. It's still a kiss but...... Al Hall is now at that stage and I certainly understand it...


Dave, I'm there because my stupid deer are smarter than me. I've had 20-30 deer a day eating corn at my feeder, which sits right beside my tractor shed. It's hard to get motivated to hunt when they'll just stand there and stare at me when I go outside. They're surviving not by guile, but by turning themselves into pets. They must know I have a soft spot for resident wildlife, and they're taking full advantage of it.


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Al, that's sorta like Grandmas deer. But, those suckers bolt if we go outside.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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We also something similar to Grandma's deer. We call them Sanctuary deer. 50 acres has been set aside for a place where no hunting is allowed. This place consist of 1/2 acre food plot, lots of acorn trees and lots of thick cover. We do not go into this place during deer season. And where it is located, we can watch some of the deer through the windows and from the patio. And for me and deer hunting, is with a bow. Which means I have to get closer and makes it a tougher hunt. And I pick out an older buck and make him my target. I swear the older bucks are smarter than me smile


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We have several multi-acre blocks of overgrown Christmas trees that we never set foot in, anytime of year. This is for the deer, rather than for viewing. My hope is that this is where the deer with good "stealth" genes can hide to avoid being pushed (intentionally or not) during the gun season. I also hope that this is where the does feel safe and attract in the big bucks during the rut. It has been working for me. I agree on the older bucks. The one that I shot this year was new to me and never captured on the trailcam.

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Dave, I found this on spike deer. While I'm not 110% sure that every deer that is pictured is the same deer like the article says, I think the majority of them are. But, I don't have as much time viewing deer as others, so I'll defer to their comments.

http://www.realtree.com/deer-hunting/galleries/photo-gallery-from-buttons-to-booner


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Think turkeys know what day of the year it is? Day after TG and 26 (as near as we could count) were in the front yard of the new house this morning. My cell phone camera sucks but if you zoom you can see them.

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Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
Tony, at some point, a lot of older guys start hunting with a camera. I understand that but it seems like that is about like kissing your sister. It's still a kiss but...... Al Hall is now at that stage and I certainly understand it. I'm dang near there but the teenagers that I take hunting certainly aren't. Those guys are apex predators but have learned how to age a deer on the hoof.

And, if the genetics were a one time thing, I might look at it differently. If I catch a really big fish, it is usually at the end of it's life and it has spread its genes. I've never mounted a big fish but let them go back. That fish or deer is also the result of generations of genes that they have also passed on. In the case of a managed pond we have some level of control over what makes up the population. But, not so in wildlife. An obviously inferior buck can mate with a doe with great genetics and the result becomes a wild card.

We are told to shoot spikes. However, there are lot of documented studies showing that some young spikes become outstanding deer. Others never make it. So, we just don't shoot young deer.

I've seen very large deer over a several year span that suddenly I never see again. Although they usually go nocturnal, they are no longer there even on the game cams at night. I figure a cold winter and predators(coyotes) probably got to them. An awful lot of older deer don't survive even our comparatively mild winters. In the case of a buck, the rut that occurs in late fall and early winter really hammers their body. Some get injured in fights that they succumb to. That winter also kills off the preferred browse/forbs/weeds. That's the main reason that I plant the winter wheat in my no hunting area in front of the house. Does it help? I really don't know but figure it can't hurt. I often over seed with turnips to give them the leafy browse that they really prefer over the cereal grains. Once again, I don't really know the result. And, my goal really isn't to try to grow great deer, but just to POSSIBLY help the population in January and February. I'll be putting out a lot of high protein rice bran this Winter.

We enjoy sitting at the window just watching them. We also enjoy making a pitcher of margaritas and sitting back in the brush watching. Those deer are known as Grandma's deer and the teens know that they are off limits around the house. Yeah, they get frustrated but know not to mess with Grandma. She has a mean streak when it comes to her deer. One of the boys told my Grandson that messing with Grandmas deer could get you a whole bunch of whoopass that he wouldn't forget. I doubt that she would really mind but I'm not telling them that.

These guys don't get a free ride. They do some work when there that they consider me too old and feeble to do. One, a new Kid, is incredibly pampered and lazy. I'll soon correct that. And, like it or not, they are always given lectures on drugs, booze, unprotected sex, etc. Does it help? Probably not but it can't hurt. My Dads lectures didn't do much for me. I had to learn on my own and Dad was a champeen lecturer.


Dave,

I planted the back two acres of my little 6 acres plot in high grass prairie for the same reason. The deer have really taken a liking to it. Keep up the good work. It is lots of little efforts that can make a big difference!

My dad's philosophy on hunting. If a guy showed up at our farm in an old beatup pickup looking desperate to feed his family asking to hunt, no problem, sure you can hunt. If 2 or 3 guys showed up in a new caddy with semi shot guns, sorry I do not allow hunting on my land. I follow the same.

PS
My dad didn't talk much. He let his belt do his talking!

Last edited by Bill D.; 11/28/14 10:43 PM.

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Esshup

I watch DEER AND DEER HUNTING on TV and have learned so much about deer and all aspects of deer hunting that I can make real good on the hoof judgment of age. Charles Alsheimer is very good at what he does. If a person wants to get educated on whitetail those guys know.


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I got extremely Sick for 3 weeks including rifle season and only got to hunt twice, but I managed to get my yearling I was after for steak meat. Now I need a old doe or buck for burger during muzzleloading season.


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Originally Posted By: blair5002
Here is my 2014 deer. I have very few days to hunt this year with work and the kids hockey chewing up most of my time. I took opening day off and started out hunting first thing in the am seeing a big 5x5 half a mile from home but couldn't get a shot off. I moved to the other end of the 1/4 section at noon to see if I could rattle the 5x5 in but this guy showed up and I shot him at 100yds with my rifle. We have lost 70% of our deer population from the last 2 harsh winters so I was pretty pleased. ://[/img] The roads were closed on the second day of hunting due to freezing rain so work was canceled and I took the wife rattling for her whitetail. We called this guy in to 150yds and she made the prefect shot with her rifle to finish off our 2014 season. /[/img]

Dang nice bucks everybody!


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Desperate times call for desperate measures. We haven't had much rain at our property so my duck pond only has a little bit of water. Got another pond right next to my duck pond so I built a siphon to move some water from one to the other.






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Chris, what size pipe??


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2"

Estimated 40-50 gpm.

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Dang, that's an expensive brass ball valve!!! wink


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Levee-burrower control.
Two down! ? more to go!
This one got a double-dose of Conibear.

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Originally Posted By: JKB
Originally Posted By: esshup
Dang, that's an expensive brass ball valve!!! wink


It's an Apollo to boot!

Funny how you go to these box stores that have the cheap Chinese stuff, and they are charging almost as much for the good USA stuff. If they would just stock the USA stuff wink


There is a brass check valve on the other end as well. Had these left over that a customer didn't want so we didn't have to pay for them.

Water is draining slower than i thought so I'm going to let it drain until next weekend.

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When buying a ball valve make sure you ask for a full flow. Big difference

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Nice job Kelly!! Several more to go?


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Good going Kelly. Why are you picking on the babies? Where's Mommy and Daddy?? wink grin


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Originally Posted By: FireIsHot
Tony, here's a question for you, and there's certainly no right or wrong answer. Do you feel the same way about fish or bird mounts?


I have never had anything mounted but I do think there are times when it is ok. I plan to mount a fish next summer. As a first time pond owner with a new pond, that first fish taken is one I want to remember. My plan is to sit my wife down with a pole equipped with a #6 hook, a bobber and a red worm for bait. There is no species of fish in my pond that cannot be taken on that setup. Whatever she catches first, regardless of size, will be mounted and placed on the wall in our great room and always remembered as the "first fish."


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I told myself that if I raised a HBG to 1.5 lbs I would have it mounted. Then we began catching a few that size, and I couldn't go through with it. And my management strategy for these fish places no emphasis on genetics....still couldn't do it.

I do hope to get past this hangup, however. I want a 2 pounder for the wall. Whether or not it will actually happen remains to be seen.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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