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Wow, what did those guys weigh? 70% loss is hard to imagine.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Those where two nice mature deer. my friends over by Lake Lenore have a couple of very mature (HUGE) mule deer that hang around their house in the winter. I would love to get a shot at one of them.

Saw a first for me in the wild on the trip up there this year, Elk saw three of them one evening while scouting.


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The elk and moose numbers are rising but the deer could use a couple of easy winters. I have never weighed a deer but some outfitters say in that 300-350lb range on the hoof.


"I think I have a nibble" Homer Simpson

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Oh Canada........


Excerpt from Robert Crais' "The Monkey's Raincoat:"
"She took another microscopic bite of her sandwich, then pushed it away. Maybe she absorbed nutrients from her surroundings."

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Very nice Blair.


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Nice Bucks !! 70% losses would really bum me out if that happened on my place here is NE Texas. I have 175 acres and I do yr round food plotting and have expanded each yr. It has grown to somewhere around 16 acres of such things as Clovers, Rye Grains, Oats, Soybeans. Do you think something along those lines might improve survival of your deer? We might be able to keep some nice bucks in the E Texas Area if we could keep the night riding poachers in Jail frown


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So the nighttime poachers are deliberately targeting bucks?


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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This post from Sprkplug is worth repeating especially for those interested in growing better wildlife.
Quote:
In the latest issue of PB magazine, Bob Lusk talks about the importance of genetics, and the need to evaluate/cull specimens as individuals rather than lumping them together under a particular size umbrella.

Certainly he was talking fish, not deer, but in light of this last week's conversation his thoughts appear at least somewhat relevant, if not downright timely, regarding the discussion.


The article is titled: 'My Fish Won't Grow' in the Nov-Dec 2014 issue of PBoss magazine. A very worth while read for growing better quality fish and animals. It takes a good management plan and knowledgeable effort.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 11/25/14 11:35 AM.

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Tony, road hunters worry me. I occasionally stay up past 9 PM, very occasionally, and when you see a pickup slow driving down a rural road at that time of night, you can bet they're scouting. I have several deer feeders out, and none of them are between the house and the road. I usually see 20-30 deer a day here, and a night time shot towards the house is something I really try to avoid by keeping the feeders out of sight.

I pulled old duck decoys out of the pond last month, and 2 of them were shot up. Road hunters apparently take skillet shots also.


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Al, do they retrieve the animal or leave it where it fell? The reason I ask is to try and determine motive. Why take such a risk in the first place? Do they need the food? Are they after trophies?

When I was in my teens many years ago, I was involved in two instances of shining/poaching deer. I wasn't the shooter, but I was there, so I was guilty also. From my point of view, it's a terrifying experience. A .222 at 1 am is somehow twice as loud as the same rifle fired at 3 pm in the afternoon.

So why do it? In my case, it was strictly food. Not for myself or my family, but for someone else. That doesn't mean I condone this type of behavior, as I most certainly do not. But there's a massive risk involved in poaching deer...what would cause someone to assume this risk?

Food? Pride? Boredom?

If it were food, wouldn't they kill the first animal they came across, and not wait for a buck?

I'm not proud of what I did all those years ago, as I was raised better than that. But at the time, I believed the circumstances warranted the actions. That doesn't make it right, or appropriate, however.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Tony, things you've done in the past are a part of what made you the man you are today. Been there, done that.

I can't speak to the reasons deer are shot off the road, but getting venison has to be part of it. The only time I've ever seen a deer killed for the antlers alone was in Kansas while I was pheasant hunting. A 200+ pound deer was laying in a ravine, with his head gone. The rest of the deer was left to rot, and that really was a sad scene. The senseless killing of a animal like that is truly something I can't understand. Here at least, that person would get hammered by TPWD if he/she was caught.


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Firelshot
The key word there is if they get caught. I got a whole other story about that.

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Blair

I did notice a lot more Moose than usual this fall. Saw 6 while hunting geese where we a usually lucky to see one on the trip


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Tony,
I gave up trying to figure out others behavior a long time ago. I don't understand people shooting game just to let it rot in the field. I've never done it...wasnt raised that way. I will report them to the authorities. You have to trust the game wardens to enforce the law. Those guys are more hi-tech than you think. We had an incident on a lease a few years back. Buck shot from the road. GW's came out with tire tread and boot tread catalogs. They do DNA testing on deer. They are nothing short of CSI for wildlife. They caught the guys. A father n' son...sad, a father teaching a young man that type of behavior. Felony offense to shoot a rifle from a road in Texas. Father took the heat....
Charlie


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Last year, my neighbor had a section of pine trees thinned and sold. These pine trees were next to my land and harvesters to me about the two big bucks they saw on my place (next to the pines). I did not want to talk about the bucks, but had been watching them grow out for the 2 yrs prior. Many photos of these bucks and was letting them age. Both bucks were poached within a week after the thinning. They cut the heads off the bucks and left the meat on the side of the rode. We discovered the bucks at my gate next to the blacktop road. Contacted the game warden and there was not much he could do. Or he showed little interest.:(


Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.


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Originally Posted By: TGW1
Last year, my neighbor had a section of pine trees thinned and sold. These pine trees were next to my land and harvesters to me about the two big bucks they saw on my place (next to the pines). I did not want to talk about the bucks, but had been watching them grow out for the 2 yrs prior. Many photos of these bucks and was letting them age. Both bucks were poached within a week after the thinning. They cut the heads off the bucks and left the meat on the side of the rode. We discovered the bucks at my gate next to the blacktop road. Contacted the game warden and there was not much he could do. Or he showed little interest.:(


Then this would seem to be a case of pride also. They were after trophies, not meat.

I've never had any work performed by a taxidermist, but is there any paperwork needed to have a deer mount prepared? As in, you need to show a tag to the taxi to verify legality on the part of the hunter. This wouldn't stop someone from purchasing a tag and poaching deer anyway, but perhaps it would cut down on some of the illegal kills?


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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No specific regs here for Taxi.

Nothing really cuts down on poaching but jail, stiff fines, loss of gun and hunting rights.

I would have trouble being proud of a road shot or spotlighted animal.

Hunting is expensive. There is very little public land in Texas so it has to be leased from a landowner. The price keeps going up due to Corporate interest. I have a small place; only 133 acres. I've been offered $25-$30 per acre for the hunting rights. The teens that hunt my land don't have parents that could afford it. The average guy with a family is being/has been squeezed out.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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So does this misrepresent the public hunting opportunities in Texas?

http://www.tpwmagazine.com/archive/2011/sep/ed_1_publichunting/index.phtml

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DD, that is exactly why the cost of a ticket to see a ball game or hockey game prohibits most blue collar worker from taking his 2 kids and wife to do most anything. I took my daughter to see YES last yr and the tickets were $50 but ONLY $10 to park.
I am happy and thankful that I was able to purchase a turkey for .89 per lb. and gas is $2.70 a gallon. Now I can afford to go set outside of the local race track, eat a cold turkey sandwich and listen to the thunder.
Ooops, almost forgot. Thank the good lord that ponds are so inexpensive to build and maintain. Just love those Tilapia at $24 a lb.


Do nature a favor, spay/neuter your pets and any weird friends or relatives.
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Originally Posted By: sprkplug
I see where our local state park will be closed a few days this season in an effort to try and reduce the deer population. They seem to have no problem finding folks willing to try and fill the freezer, there's always more participants than there are slots available. Meat hunting appears to be alive and well down here, as I don't imagine there are too many trophies in that herd.


Tony:

State Park hunts are popular for a couple of reasons.

1) They allow you to take 3 more deer, so yes, the freezer benefits.
2) They also allow you to have one buck as one of those 3 deer, and because the areas are typically not hunted (only 4 days of the year) there are larger bucks in the parks.
3) The Park hunts are free. There is no license to purchase, no fees generated by the hunters for the Parks.

The hunts are done on the Monday and Tuesday after the firearm opener, and the Monday and Tuesday after the firearm season closes. You have to have your Hunters Safety Certificate, and the hunts are done on a lottery basis only. Hunting hours are different than the regular hunting season - 1/2 hr after sunrise to 1/2 hr before sunset. The parks are broken up into zones, and you are tolk where you should hunt. They regulate that by having specific parking areas, but once out of the vehicle they don't check to see if the hunters are in the correct zone.

At Potato Creek State Park by me, the first year the rangers cut off and kept all the antlers to prevent guys from strictly going in to trophy hunt. There is an orientation meeting that you have to attend a week or so before the hunt, and you are told to shoot the first 3 deer that you see, but only one can be a buck. If people are caught passing up a buck when they haven't shot one, then the park will go back to confiscating all antlers. There are a number of large bucks shot every year in a park during the hunts because they are a safe zone for them during the regular hunting season.

But, by no means is it shooting fish in a barrel. The hunting is just as hard as it is out of the park. Not only do you have to out think the deer, because of the hunter density, you have to out think the other hunters. I've been there during the hunts, and set up in a great funnel area, only to have a hunter set up 150 yds away further up the funnel and intercept the deer that were coming my way before they got to me.


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Sounds like a pretty liberal relaxation of normal policy, regarding taking deer. And from my way of thinking, that makes sense as they need to thin the herd.

This issue of costs intrigues me also. As a non-deer hunter myself, killing a deer appears on the surface to be an extremely cheap way to get meat. I see deer nearly every day on my property, often at the same times and locations. A little forethought, and a single 20 gauge slug fired from a gun I already own, would yield a pretty decent return on the investment in my opinion?

I would obviously still have substantial time invested in dressing and butchering the animal, and some related expenditures in packaging materials, but it certainly doesn't appear prohibitively expensive.

And for a lot of folks around me, that's just how it's done. It's cheap meat. I can see where trophy hunting might, like most every other hobby, be taken as far and as extreme as one desires. But just to kill for the freezer, would appear to require very little.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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When you shoot at them, they wise up fast.

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Tony:

You are correct. If you have the gun, the clothes and the required license (If it's required - there are exemptions for some landowners), and butcher the animal yourself, it is cheap meat. You'll get roughly 40% of deboned meat from a deer.

Out-of-state hunts is where the $$ start adding up fast.


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Tony, we also eat it. But, I don't just hunt for the meat.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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I understand Dave. And I honestly have no problem with legal deer hunters, no matter their philosophy for doing so. I may not deer hunt, but I allow my neighbor to hunt on us every year. He was in to see me yesterday, to make sure it was still okay for him to do so this weekend. He wasn't real happy when I told him It was fine with me, but I planned to spend some time on the tractor and bush hog Saturday or Sunday, opening up the wooded trails. He's got a doe somewhere else, and he wants to kill a buck on me. That's fine, trophy or not.

As I've said, my reason for posting in this thread was simply one of curiosity. I've never been a trophy hunter, and fail to see the logic in removing the best genetics from anything. I simply wanted to hear what others had to say, and maybe provide some food for thought.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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