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Originally Posted By: highflyer
Well as one who has played with solar, It does have its pluses and minuses.

My current setup to "Play" with:

This is 8, 230 watt panels. It is capable of 1840 watts. As setup, I will never see that much power from this system. But even in total overcast and rain, I can make 100 watts. Thats right, 100 watts from those 8 panels. Solar has its pluses and minuses.



And here is a why I have all this power: It is Tilapitopia 2.0 . I am using Airlift to move water between tanks and I am using the excess solar power to heat the water.



So far we are still tweaking our system, but it looks very promising.



Looks familiar wink

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Originally Posted By: highflyer

Scott,
if they come, they work and learn!!!!


You can say that again, in ALL CAPS! grin

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Guys the battery costs will have to come down and the technology will have to get better to make it worthwhile for my aquaponics system. Decided to stick with the grid for now.

I can't justify a thousand dollars in battery back up to run 50 watts of electricity 24/7.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Cecil,

I understand the battery costs, but you could build a smaller system and use it as partial power for your systems. Getting your hands on this stuff will increase your understanding. Your 10 watts aerator could be run on a very small battery footprint.

Just a thought.


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Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1

I can't justify a thousand dollars in battery back up to run 50 watts of electricity 24/7.


A small solar power system sure is nice when the grid goes down. wink

As stated, a partial system solution won't cost you that much and is a great learning resource so you are prepared for the future IF you decide to step up to a larger more complex system.

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Sid, glad to see you joined the party. I'll see you in Feb.!


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Yeah, the batteries are the killer. I was going to install a web cam and underwater cam along with solar power and wirelessly transmit the images back up to the house for a fun project. When it came time to size the batteries I choked on it if I wanted to run during the day only, but cover 3 cloudy days in a row.

I may revisit it if I can find a lower-power decent outdoor camera.

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wow! wish I had not read all these solar aeration threads..... How feasible would this be at 10,000' in the mountains in Colorado??

The solar units I had seen very EXTREMELY expensive. You guys make this DIY solar stuff sound feasible. I thought I had at least narrowed it down to a windmill!! lol

My brain hurts

Last edited by wbuffetjr; 03/14/15 08:11 PM.

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Solar for remote locations...Absolutely possible and far less than a windmill... depending on the situation. IMHO, I'd think twice about the windmill! cool


Last edited by mnfish; 03/15/15 10:13 AM.
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Originally Posted By: mnfish
Solar for remote locations...Absolutely possible and far less than a windmill... depending on the situation. IMHO, I'd think twice about the windmill! cool



mnfish I am actually thinking both, only one problem! The windmill is very simple! Order it, assemble it, done! This solar stuff is very confusing to me! I have veryyyy little electrical knowledge so you start talking about watts, amps, lcb, etc and I start to go into over load! Soooo, just off the top of your head.... What do you think a DIY solar project budget would need to be for a decent compressor that would run a couple diffusers? Thanks!!


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Hope this helps - This summer I will be posting a step by step installation of a DIY direct solar pumping design that I have been using for a while now. I will explain/show where I buy the components and how to assemble them. If a person is somewhat handy it can be built for around $750. (excluding diffuser assembly(s), manifold if 2 diffusers are to be run, and air line(s).

The system:
1) Direct pumping, no batteries, only day time running
2) 8' or less max pond depth, 12V diaphragm pump
2) 7.5 hrs minimum run time during MN summer, 1.2 max CFM
3) 4 hrs minimum run time during MN winter, 1.2 max CFM


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Thanks for all the info.

With some slight modification a battery could be added and the system made for southern ponds where night time summer aeration is more important.

I have an older refurbished pond away from the house that the idea is being toyed with.

I'm running four 115v diaphragm pumps (Pondmaster AP100's) at up to 10' depths and they have been doing fine.

Last edited by snrub; 04/05/15 03:15 PM.

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Originally Posted By: mnfish
Hope this helps - This summer I will be posting a step by step installation of a DIY direct solar pumping design that I have been using for a while now. I will explain/show where I buy the components and how to assemble them. If a person is somewhat handy it can be built for around $750. (excluding diffuser assembly(s), manifold if 2 diffusers are to be run, and air line(s).

The system:
1) Direct pumping, no batteries, only day time running
2) 8' or less max pond depth, 12V diaphragm pump
2) 7.5 hrs minimum run time during MN summer, 1.2 max CFM
3) 4 hrs minimum run time during MN winter, 1.2 max CFM


That would be AWESOME!! Just out of curiosity, what would it take to be able to pump in deeper water? A bigger compressor and more panels I am guessing??? I am veryyy interested in this! $750 is about 1/8th of what I thought a solar setup would run!! I will be leaving for Colorado the last week of June...hint hint!! smile
Thanks again for all the info!

Last edited by wbuffetjr; 04/05/15 08:09 PM.

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You may want to check with the manufacturers of the electronics and compressors on how much you have to de-rate these at the higher altitude.

The air is much thinner at 10,000 feet and pretty much everything is rated at sea level.

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Jr- Your guess is correct. Completley possible just adds more to the build cost.
Hey Phil...what does it mean to "de-rate" a compressor?

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The atmospheric pressure is much lower at 10,000'. Less pressure for the compressor intake and therefore less pressure and flow on the output. The compressor alone can't make up the difference.

Air cooled electronics and motors are also effected by the thin air - less cooling capacity of the atmosphere.

We may possibly do a project in Pueblo. That's at about 5000'. This is similar to one in Kentucky which is about 500'. All of the motor sizes/speeds on the compressors and blowers had to be bumped up in order to achieve the operating pressure and flow requirements. The operating pressure is only 0.65 PSI. The flow is what took the biggest hit. Also had to add (2) 12" cooling fans to the control panel, where in KY, didn't need them, even tho it gets warmer.

It may not be an issue with the small compressor you have, but I would at least double check. Gast use to have a manual out, but I can only find one section of it. It is an issue.

I guess solar panels work a lot better up at the higher elevations.

EDIT: Gast requests you contact them before using their equipment at high altitudes.

Here is a bit from a DC motor manufacturer on altitude:

ALTITUDE - Standard motor ratings are based on operation at any altitude up to 3300 feet (1000 meters). All altitudes up to and including 3300 feet are considered to be the same as sea level. High altitude derating is required because of lower air density that requires a greater amount of cooling. DC motors are derated by 3% per 1000 feet above the 3300 feet. In some cases, a blower will be sufficient to cool the motor instead of using a larger frame motor.

3300' seems to be the standard for industrial stuff.

Last edited by JKB; 04/07/15 05:06 PM.
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WOW thanks for the heads up JKB! So I will have to derate the compressor 21%. Seems like the altitude is gonna effect my windmill compressor the same way?? Solar panels do perform better at higher altitudes. It will be interesting to talk to someone and see how much.

Y'all are awesome! Thanks for all the help!


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The numbers for the compressor heads come out at about 23%-24% derate, based on some online stuff from a compressor manufacturer. Your windmill will be about the same derate.

If you use a brushed DC motor, you will need special brushes, as most are mentioning. Has to do with the Dielectric properties of air. Believe it or not, air is an electrical insulator. It's much better at sea level than at 10,000'. I guess what happens is there is more arcing between the brushes and the commutator due to the air gap's involved. Basically, eats itself up quicker. Even with the special carbon brushes, life may not be all that great.

One company mentioned that with a standard brushed DC motor, could be all over with in a few hours from firing it up.

Absolutely the best way to go DC with these small motors, at any elevation, is brushless DC (BLDC). That's what I would do. I would want my motor to last a long darn time without worries or much maintenance.

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Ok got it! So where do you buy these things? What brand and size should I be looking for? I would want to aerate in 21' of water. Assuming I would need some cushion PSI-wise, I was thinking maybe I need one that can do 11.5-12 psi?? Now I have no idea what I would need CFM-wise.

My thinking here is that I need to figure out a compressor first then build the rest of the components around that. Then see where I am at with cost and decide if adding a battery is feasible this year. Looks like I am gonna bust the budget again this year!! haha never really liked budgets anyway!!

Thanks again for all the help! Sorry to pester y'all with questions!

Last edited by wbuffetjr; 04/08/15 07:56 AM.

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I think you should get your diffusers worked out first. How many, placement, and all that.

From there we can work on the compressor/motor combo. I'll be happy to call a few places and talk to their engineers about your application, but let's get a few of the diffuser experts in on this first and make those definitions.

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Gosh Darn It JKB....Very good stuff!! Altitude adjustments for the design matrix...check... Thank you!!!

I have done a little research, emphasis on little, for a 12V Vane Compressor. It might not be enough for the depth along with the derating (did I use that term correctly?)

Gast model # 1531-107B-G617 with this pump I didn't so much mind the $750 price tag but the 15 week lead time made me gasp a little grin I think it goes without saying, JKB will be much, much, much better at the pump stuff than I!!

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I'm going to email this topic to Esshup and try to get his input. He has helped me a bunch and I want to get my diffusers and airline from him. At one point he had told me that two or three 9" vertex diffusers should do the trick. I'd like to confirm that and see what kind of compressor would need to run those and then how many panels would be needed to run that! I can hear the ka-ching ka-ching of a cash register in the back ground! lol

Any idea how many panels it would take to run a 1/3 hp compressor?

Can't say it enough, y'all are awesome!!

Last edited by wbuffetjr; 04/08/15 12:18 PM.

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Yeah, buzz the diffusers by esshup.

As far as the number of panels, depends on motor specs. Can you post the nameplate info, or some way to find it?

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Originally Posted By: mnfish
Gosh Darn It JKB....Very good stuff!! Altitude adjustments for the design matrix...check... Thank you!!! You're welcome!

I have done a little research, emphasis on little, for a 12V Vane Compressor. It might not be enough for the depth along with the derating (did I use that term correctly?) Yep!

Gast model # 1531-107B-G617 with this pump I didn't so much mind the $750 price tag but the 15 week lead time made me gasp a little grin I think it goes without saying, JKB will be much, much, much better at the pump stuff than I!!

$750.00 is a chunk!



I've been thru pretty much all of Gast's rocking piston and diaphragm pumps, and it looks like most of the AC rigs could be run directly off of solar because of the type of motor it is. May need a soft start and something to kick it in when the sun comes out tho.

I have a 1/3hp 3 phase motor here. Theoretically, you could run it off a single 280W panel with an ABB (Power One) micro inverter running 240V split phase into a VFD, then to the motor. Need a couple more gizmo as well.

Problem is, the Micro is a grid tie unit and I need to figure out a way to loop back and trick it into thinking it's on the grid. ABB said no work without grid.

Scratching my head a bit, but that's because I had to go to a fiberglass factory today laugh

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Originally Posted By: JKB

I've been thru pretty much all of Gast's rocking piston and diaphragm pumps, and it looks like most of the AC rigs could be run directly off of solar because of the type of motor it is. May need a soft start and something to kick it in when the sun comes out tho.

I have a 1/3hp 3 phase motor here. Theoretically, you could run it off a single 280W panel with an ABB (Power One) micro inverter running 240V split phase into a VFD, then to the motor. Need a couple more gizmo as well.

Problem is, the Micro is a grid tie unit and I need to figure out a way to loop back and trick it into thinking it's on the grid. ABB said no work without grid.

Scratching my head a bit, but that's because I had to go to a fiberglass factory today laugh


JKB my gosh man what do you do for a living!!?? You make it sound so simple!!

I don't have a motor picked out at all. Just kind of started looking around on the Gast site. A while back Esshup told me I'd need 11.5 psi and 4-4.5 cfm so I was just looking through all the different pumps at ones close to those specs. Seemed like I was going to be in the 1/3 hp range. It all depends on where I am going to come in price-wise on this, but I have not totally ruled out throwing in a battery on this thing to keep me going at night too.

On another topic, one day I do hope to have solar on my house so this would be a good way to get my feet wet.


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