Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Selecting a site expanding pond size

i have about a 1/8 acre pond and i am considering doubling it's size to about 1/4 acre or a little more maybe... its 2.5yrs old now with fish. wondered how that would effect the fish and the pond in general by doing this? its a oval and my plan was to dig another oval then connect them as the last move by digging out the middle, ultimately giving it more of a peanut shape.

sad,

What you are describing is basically how my pond was constructed. My pond was dug by a local topsoil & compost business that dug it in exchange for the soil. Since it was a "free" dig, it was not a very fast dig. They excavated around 1/2 an acre, and then stopped for 18 months or so. I got over anxious and I succumbed to my temptations, - stocking 100 or so adult bluegill caught from other farm ponds, 2 dozen channel cat fingerlings from a pet store, a couple buckets full of free gambusias from the local mosquito control department.... you get the picture (& hence the name of my pond... potluck pond. By the time the excavator returned, I had already had several bluegill spawns and my two buckets of gams turned into 2 tons! My catfish had grown fat and friendly. We dug a second pond, - this one approximately 3/4 acre, leaving a narrow strip between the two. We then formed an island out of the strip, connecting the ponds on both sides.

Unlike most of the clay "tank" ponds that I read about here, - my pond is comprised of beach-like sand. My water table is only about 2 to 4 feet below the ground, depending on the time of the year. In order to dig, we had to constantly pump the water out. When we connected the ponds, my old pond was filled to the brim and the new addition was pumped dry. When we made the first connection, the force of the water rushing in was unbelievable. The old side dropped no less than four feet in fifteen minutes, cutting a huge and deep channel through the sandy bottom as it poured accross.

That was about two months ago. For the first month, my pond looked the color of coffee with cream. It had foam and sediment floating all over the surface. I was certain my fish were doomed. But, I never found a floater. In the last month the pond has settled and cleared and my fish are hitting the pellet chow like mad. I've fished it once and caught several very big bluegill. The gams and fatheads are all over the place, and I've seen a couple of the cats.

I believe you can expand your pond and that it will bounce back quite well. Mine did.

Hi Sad and a belated welcome to Pond Boss. Hang on and I'm sure you will receive additional responses.



Pot Luck, great story, yep you're a certified pond nut.

I did the same thing Pot Luck did twice and I simply widened my pond out once. I would say the additions where I dug next to my existing pond and then cut a channel through were less stressful on the fish in that the whole pond didn't turn into chocolate milk. The last time I just widened the pond along it's whole length the entire pond turned into what looked like a sewer hole. Didn't lose a fish that I could tell. Within 3 weeks the pond cleared up to normal and everyone was happy. If you live in the North country I certainly wouldn't do this in the fall when it might freeze over while in the most turbid state. I did mine as early in the year as I could just so the algea would have a chance to grow back before winter. The algea is where you get most of the oxygen after freeze over. I too was afraid I'd kill it all but it worked.

i didn't know algae was a good thing to have over the winter. i'll consider that as i try to rid the algae i have now.

Sad
Over the years there have been a number of pond enlargements and none have caused fish kills, now there have been some that needed to be drained completely and of course that is a different story

OTTO

Sad,

The algae that is "good" to have is phytoplankton, - the microscopic plants that are to small to be seen as individuals, but when present in sufficient numbers give the pond water a nice green tint. This is what is refered to on the forum as an "algae bloom."

If the "algae" that you are trying to get rid of is visible to your eye as hairy, stringy globs... that isn't phytoplankton. In fact, an algae bloom of phytoplankton, - since it tints the water and limits the penetration of sunlight to the lower depths, can help reduce the growth of the "algae" that you are targeting to remove. Nutrient flow into the water, suspended sediment in the water, the chemical composition of the pond's water, muck on the bottom of the pond, aeration and circulation... all of these factors play a part in the growth (or lack there of) of the types of "algae" in your particular body of water.

You may want to snap a picture of the "algae" that plagues you and get some advice from the pros on this board. They've helped me out a ton.

Guys,

I found this old thread on enlarging ponds. I am going to be adding 1/8 to mine next year and maybe again the following year. My thought was to do as discussed above and build the addition and then break down the barrier. The new area will fill literally as we dig as we have a very high water table here. Do we need to try and keep it pumped down while digging? Is that the best approach or should I just start digging on the shore of the existing pond where I want to add on? I was thinking the best time to do the work would be July after spring spawn is over. Any advice you can give would be greatly appreciated!

I've went around my old pond with a backhoe and expanded it (after previously expanding and cleaning out the old part with a dozer). Worked in the water around all the shore line except where the dam was. Far as I could tell did not see any fish kill but like others said the water turned brown each time I worked on the project. I actually did it in three or four hitches, so the fish had an area to move to that was not so bad as the area being worked, although the turbidity did eventually each time expand to take over the whole pond, just not as bad as the area being worked.

I can tell you it is much easier and much more efficient to be working in dirt than working through water to get to the dirt. The mud created can be a challenge to get out of the bucket so is harder on the machine by having to shake it all the time. It is harder on the machine because the greased pivot points are working in water/dirt which is not the best lubricant. Also it is impossible to see what you are doing working in the water. After the first dip, everything is muddy and the operator has to work by "feel". I'm not a great operator but after the water cleared I could see many places I missed dirt that I was pretty sure I had got it all. But it can be done if needed. My preference, where possible, is to work in dry dirt then breaking a barrier to let the water into the new area. Did this on my daughters pond when I expanded it. One problem with this way is it may make it impossible to remove all the dirt you want from the area temporarily dividing the new excavation and the old portion of the pond. One of the posters above solution was leave an island by cutting out the remaining area on both sides.

One final word of caution. Otto above did not go into detail, but what he was trying to warn of is the fact that likely you will not be able to properly compact all or part of the new excavation. Otto quote: "now there have been some that needed to be drained completely and of course that is a different story". If the soil type you have is prone to leaking (or if it is a groundwater pond it may be a moot point) the new area you excavate may leak badly and ruin your whole pond. Thus his warning about some ponds having to be completely drained and redone after the expansion project. In my area our water source is watershed and we had three different clay manufacturing plants (pottery, clay tile and brick) within a few miles all around us, so we have clay that anywhere we scrape the topsoil off and the water cant run out or evaporate quick enough, we have a pond. Cursed for farming, but blessed for making ponds. Depending on your soil type and the clay content, the new area you dig might leak if not treated properly.

Edit: P.S. I really like your tag line. So true.

Thanks Snrub.

There is no doubt my pond leaks now. After digging thru 4 or 5 feet of top soil there is about a 2 to 5 foot band of river rock, 8 to 20 inch boulders and sand. Below that is clay. The good news is the water leaks into the pond, not out. Water table here fluctuates between 2 to 3 feet below grade thru the year. Sitting on a giant aquifer. Trying to keep ahead of the water when I dug the first part of the pond was a challenge. Needed two 3 inch pumps to get ahead of the flow coming in(about 36000 gph). Pumps only ran 3 to 4 hours before they would run out of gas.

Pumping down the exiting pond is not an option so, it sounds like the way to go is dig the addition first, keeping it pumped down as we dig, and then letting it fill. What do you think, break down the barrier right away or let the new addition settle out first?

That is a good question. Don't have an answer for you though. Maybe others will have opinions. I never had the patience to wait, so on the two ponds I had experience with expanding where the new area was dug then joined with the old,(one very small pond, the other larger) I joined them together as soon as the new portion of excavation was done.

Now you have me thinking of other possibilities. What do you think about building the addition in the spring as soon as I have solid ground and leave the barrier up? Would that be an opportunity to stock that addition with FHM and maybe a few fingerlings like WE? I could then take the barrier down in the fall and provide the entire pond a good crop of FHM for winter forage and maybe add a few desireable predators that have grown big enough over the summer to survive in the main pond. Sound crazy?

An even crazier idea, keep them two separate ponds and manage them differently with different species or different management goals.

On digging your new pond and the soil you are working in. If you have that rock layer, and the way you describe your underground water source, when you dig the new pond next to the old one, it may turn out that as you are pumping that water out to dig, the water from old pond will be flowing into the new dig. Are you prepared to lower that pond level down to the clay level, where this won't be happening?

If the water flow don't happen that way, I would dig the new pond lower than the first. Break the barrier, then when the water was lowered in the first pond from doing that, clean-up edges and things you might want to do(habitat, docks, etc.)and possibly dig a second hole deeper (if possible at that point).

Wow! You are absolutely correct. I had not thought of that. The rock/sand layer thru the barrier is going to act like a giant pipe connecting the old pond to the new dig. Trying to pump down the new dig will mean fighting not only the water flowing into that dig but also fighting the existing pond dumping its existing water along with the ground water that will be pouring into it as its level lowers.

I do not want to pump the old pond down to clay. One of the reasons for the addition is to get some deeper water. The original pond is only 8 feet so pumping it to the clay level would pretty much drain it. Kind of hard on the fish I would think and I have no way to remove and hold them.

Looks like pumping is not an option. The addition will need to be dug through water. The next question is dig it separate with a barrier or just start on the shore of the existing pond? Again, a separate pond will have some impact on water level in the old pond for at least 24 hours until the addition fills completely with ground water.

Yep, if that happens you are left with two choices. One you mention of with digging in water, and I still would leave it separate till done.

The second, which really isn't likely doable, is to pump it out of the new dig into the old pond. Your pump will have to exceed the flow thru rate. Means LOTS of pumping and you can never give it a moments rest till its all dug.... digging like mad. Means big equipment, and possible multiple guys working, to get it done fast.

And then there is the possibility of all that water flowing thru the rock/sand layer just blowing down the barrier.

Oh yeah.... would be a heck of a thing to be sitting on that with a track hoe and float along into the new pond...... ouch.

So looks like the right decision is to dig from the existing shoreline. Too many unknowns and possible safety concerns to do it any other way.

My thanks to both you and Snrub for helping me think through this!!

Bill D.

Glad to help. Please take pictures of progress and don't forget to come back 6 or 12 months and share results..... Things you did right and wrong, etc.

Ground water ponds are completely foreign to me but interesting to hear about just the same.