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#457363 - 10/09/16 06:07 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: John Fitzgerald]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5098
Loc: SE Kansas
I think under any ordinary circumstances I would have been fine. It was just the culmination of several factors all at once that did me in.

Had we had a moderate rain first to get it attached to some cover or soil. Had we got it disc like we planned. Had the litter been more wet than so dry and dusty. Had we not had the stock pile right at the peak of the hill where after it was cleaned up there was still a flat circle of concentration of which the runoff went directly into that terrace.

I think in established grass the only problem you might have is if something happened just like it did for me. A huge rain right after application.

My fish in the main pond seem to be fine. I'll know in the next week or so how many of the small fish died. The only thing I really cared much about was my breeding size RES. I may try to catch a half dozen nice ones out of my forage pond for breeders for this pond when the water gets fit. That actually might be beneficial, because then the only large fish (of reproduction capability size) would be the RES I put in there. The small RES or BG that survive would be sometime next summer before they could spawn. That would give the brood RES a jump start.

This might not have been such a bad deal after all!


Edited by snrub (10/09/16 06:09 PM)
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#457538 - 10/13/16 10:33 AM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2427
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
snrub, my sediment pond is filling up with sand after heavy rain events. What used to be 8' deep is now 3' deep. This was the purpose of this sediment pond and was designed to stop that same sand from going into the pond. The problem I see coming is where to put all the sand when I re dig this sediment pond. Looks like it will need to be cleaned up about every yr or so. I have thought of dong what I think u have done and that is building another sediment pond above and behind the first one. I am a little concerned that doing it this way might reduce the amount of water that enters the main pond. Thoughts or suggestions? Thanks
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Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Thank The Good Lord the government in Washington DC gets little done.
Outlawing guns will make a lot of us down here in the South
Outlaws and proud of it

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#457546 - 10/13/16 12:48 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
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Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13537
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
Tracy, I also have a lot of sand. My land is essentially a long rocky and sandy hill. I'm sure that the floods of the last couple of years have reduced my depth. I've dropped cedar trees in some of the runoff areas to hold back the sand and have rerouted some of the areas to hold it back. But I can't stop it all.
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#457593 - 10/14/16 08:51 AM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2427
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
Thanks Dave, I read in earlier post's where u had added some cedars to your runoff areas and so I did something similar by using some good old E Texas brush. Thanks for your earlier post. I also planted some rice in the ditch along with building some small levies hoping to reduce the amount of sand going into the sediment and the big pond. It has helped but I have now come to realize I will have to dig out the sand if I want to continue to raise fhm's in this sediment pond. snrub mentioned having two sediment ponds and was wondering if they tied into each other and if it had affected the big ponds water levels. That is one of my concerns because the runoff area is the main contributory to my big ponds water supply. My sediment pond is now raising two things, Fhm's and Bull Frogs. I have 15 small 6" bull frogs living in this pond along with about two pounds of fhm's. I have already added an additional pound of them to the big pond so far. Now I am wondering where to place all this sand when I redig the pond this coming spring. If I build a beach area, the sand might just run into the pond and so I am back to square one.


Edited by TGW1 (10/14/16 08:57 AM)
Edit Reason: sp
_________________________
Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Thank The Good Lord the government in Washington DC gets little done.
Outlawing guns will make a lot of us down here in the South
Outlaws and proud of it

Tracy

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#457597 - 10/14/16 09:59 AM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 2010
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Can you spread the sand downhill from the watershed?
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#457600 - 10/14/16 10:41 AM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
Dave Davidson1 Offline
Moderator
Lunker

Registered: 01/04/06
Posts: 13537
Loc: Hurst & Bowie, Texas
Tracy, a neighbor dug out a lot of sand. He spread it around a field and disked it in.
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It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP

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#457789 - 10/17/16 11:05 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5098
Loc: SE Kansas
Originally Posted By: snrub
Originally Posted By: snrub
Added a Pre-sediment pond to the sediment pond. Had room in the terrace channel coming into the sediment pond to make an approximate 40'long by 20' wide by 5-6' deep mini-mini-mini pond.

This one is small enough I can easily clean it out with the backhoe as needed. It should catch the largest dirt particles and any corn shucks or debris that comes of the agriculture field right next to it. Ag field is in the background in the first picture.

Water comes from the field via a terrace, through a double culvert that has a road over the top, and dumps directly into this very small pond. It then exits this pond and runs over about 30' of the original terrace channel (which is rocked and is part of a 4-wheeler road) into the sediment pond. Then ultimately the water goes from the sediment pond into the main pond.

Pictures are poor. It snowed before I thought of taking some. Will get better pictures when it fills with water.

The clay piled to the left in the first picture (to the right in second picture) will eventually be moved out and used elsewhere.

May throw a few FHM in it next spring just for kicks.


Wanted to add an observation to this thread. Last year I had added a few 4" RES to this pre-sediment pond and many many small 2" BG had swam upstream into it during numerous rain events (only time water flows) from the sediment pond and had grown to 3" or so. Lots of FHM too. I could observe them from the bank and trapped lots of them to put in the main pond.

An interesting thing happened. We had a reasonably large rain event that caused lots of flow through on this tiny pond (which is expected). I found a couple of dead 5" RES after the water subsided and no small BG to be found and only a small population of mid size FHM. Either most of the fish washed down stream into the sediment pond or died.

Previously high water flows have caused small fish to swim upstream and populate this pond. This time something else happened. I don't have a definative answer as to what happened or why, but somw possibilities.

First, the runoff of the corn field came very fast. There was probably at least a ten times full volume water exchange in this pond within a time period of a few hours (this pre-sediment pond is only about 40' long by 20' wide by 6' deep). It was a cold rain following unusually warm weather and warm water.

One thought is that extreme temp and/or Ph change got to the fish and killed them. Or at least some of the larger ones and the smaller ones stressed and washed into the sediment pond (it is about 1/10th of an acre). The other possibility is the field had been sprayed with a corn herbicide a few days earlier so herbicide runoff could have also possibly stressed the fish. Water went from clear/green with a nice algae bloom to muddy in a short time (the very reason this pre-sediment pond was built to be the first line of defense from runoff from this field - so it is doing its job). Or a combination of stress factors.

Loosing the fish is not a big deal. The tiny pond is to catch sediment before it reaches the sediment pond or main pond. I just thought it interesting observation of what happened after this small pond had been so fertile in small fish numbers and now it is almost without fish. The water is starting to clear up. I'm sure with another rain small fish will again migrate up to it and repopulate it. Probably for this same thing to happen all over again at some future date.

Tiny ponds with hugh flow through have some special chalenges.



Decided to do something about the high flow through in the pre-sediment pond. Not really able to change the amount of flow through, but change the way the fish can react to it. Basically I connected the pre-sediment pond directly to the sediment pond via a 6" PVC pipe that is about a foot under water at full pool. That way fish can swim back and forth from pond to pond where before they were stuck in the ponds separately till a large rain event. Now they can travel back and forth through the pipe at will. This will hopefully allow fish to move down stream to better water as large inflows happen. Pictures below.

Covered the pipe with coarse rock that water can also permeate through. I also dug the pre-sediment pond about 25% larger. That brought it closer to the sediment pond so I was able to use a single 20' joint of pipe to connect the two ponds while also allowing a little larger sediment area.

I wanted to keep the ponds separate instead of just completely joining them both into a single pond for a couple of reasons. By keeping them apart and controlling water flow I should get a lot of the sedimentation dropping out in the pre-sediment pond which I can clean out with a backhoe. Also I wanted to maintain a road between them where I drive the 4-wheeler. If at some point I do want to treat the ponds differently, all I have to do is put a 6" cap on the pipe. Then they will be separate BOW's again.

Under light runoff conditions all the water will flow through the 6" pipe. When the flow is higher than the pipe can handle the water will run over the top just like it used to.


Attachments
IMGA1876.JPG (218 downloads)
Description: Dug trench between ponds with backhoe

IMGA1877.JPG (269 downloads)
Description: Installed 6" sched 40 PVC pipe. Covered with coarse 2-3" lateral crushed limestone




Edited by snrub (10/17/16 11:20 PM)
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#457813 - 10/18/16 01:49 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 2010
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
I like what you have done with the ponds...you have a complete fishery there.
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#457822 - 10/18/16 04:22 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: John Fitzgerald]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5098
Loc: SE Kansas
I've raised the level on all three ponds now. This is what the new level looks like in the forage pond (front of picture) and sediment pond (rear). The main pond is to the right of the first picture and as I recall at the time was a few inches over full pool running out the overflow.

If it every dries up and I get the time, I'm going to add about 18" to the water level in my old pond. But that will take some dirt work and adding an overflow pipe. Just a dirt/rock overflow area right now.

We really like the new water levels.


Attachments
IMGA1918.JPG (267 downloads)
Description: Forage pond (front of picture), sediment pond (rear) and east side of main pond (right).

IMGA1928.JPG (243 downloads)
Description: sediment pond overflow - note water in elbow is water level of main pond

IMGA1923.JPG (237 downloads)
Description: water level of main pond at the time.


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#458414 - 10/29/16 10:46 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: TGW1]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5098
Loc: SE Kansas
Originally Posted By: TGW1
snrub, my sediment pond is filling up with sand after heavy rain events. What used to be 8' deep is now 3' deep. This was the purpose of this sediment pond and was designed to stop that same sand from going into the pond. The problem I see coming is where to put all the sand when I re dig this sediment pond. Looks like it will need to be cleaned up about every yr or so. I have thought of dong what I think u have done and that is building another sediment pond above and behind the first one. I am a little concerned that doing it this way might reduce the amount of water that enters the main pond. Thoughts or suggestions? Thanks


My little addition I call the Pre-Sediment pond is just wide enough I can reach the middle with the backhoe and I just extended it to where it is now probably 50' long. Maybe 5-6' deep. So it should be really easy to clean out with my backhoe. As far as additional water, the size of it and the gallons held is minimal compared to my main pond. I think its benefits will far outweigh any extra evaporation loss I might get and as far as taking away water from my main pond I think will also be minimal.

In the picture below the water is still flowing and I have since added just enough gravel so at full pool I can drive over the tube without driving through water. Water now flows through a 6" tube during low flow rain events but spills over this drive during big rains.


Attachments
IMGA1909.JPG (173 downloads)
Description: Pre-sediment pond




Edited by snrub (10/29/16 10:49 PM)
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#458416 - 10/29/16 11:06 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5098
Loc: SE Kansas
Well the fish truck from Dunns came around last Thursday and decided to see if the water was fit for fish to live after the total fish kill in this pond. Got 100 2" RES and 2# of FHM and put about 70 of the RES and about a pound of FHM in this 1/10th acre sediment pond. I took an extra long time to acclimate them since the water was still stained very brown with tannin. But algae was growing new around the edges and there were snails galore moving around in the shallows. I first put a small batch in to see if they went immediately belly up and they seemed ok so put the rest in.

No floaters the next day so all seems ok.

Then I started catching RES out of my forage pond. Since the little ones had not died, started putting adult RES in also. Had I known I would be able to catch bigger fish I likely would not have even bought any fingerlings. So far have put 9 adult RES ranging from 5" up to a couple that were 10"+. Couple 9" and a couple 7". Am going to try and catch one more and make it 10.

That should give me adult RES that are ready to spawn next spring, then the 2" fingerlings from Dunn's should be spawning size by late next summer. So hopefully will have a pond full of RES by next fall.

I think I had a complete fish kill in this pond. All the big fish died and a lot of fish on the bank all the way down to an inch and two inch in length. So if any lived they likely would be small fish. Saw just a handful of Gams but I think they came in a couple days later from the pre-sediment pond where quite a few Gams (and maybe BG) survived. Since these two ponds are now connected by a 6" tube, it is possible there could be some small BG. Or maybe not.

But at any rate, with these big RES I am putting in this pond, they should have the upper hand on any spawning that goes on next year. That is unless we have another huge rain where BG and who knows what can swim upstream and get in. But I am hoping for lots of RES recruitment next year.

Some of the brood stock pics below.


Attachments
IMGA1959.JPG (189 downloads)
IMGA1962.JPG (201 downloads)
IMGA1964.JPG (154 downloads)
IMGA1965.JPG (206 downloads)



Edited by snrub (10/29/16 11:07 PM)
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#470758 - 04/29/17 03:54 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5098
Loc: SE Kansas
Anyone building a new pond or even adding to an old pond, I highly recommend adding some sort of sediment or settling pond ahead of the main pond if you have a watershed that tends to have sediment erosion or high nutrient loads.

Below are pictures that are actually showing that the sediment pond is being over loaded. In other words some sediment and muddy water is flowing through the sediment pond and making it to the main pond. But imagine how much more sediment and mud would be getting into the main pond without first flowing through the sediment pond and a much small pre-sediment pond I have ahead of the sediment pond. At least the larger particles are being dropped in the sediment pond before it reaches the main pond.

I believe my sediment pond will make my main pond last numerous more years and keep the water in better shape each year by first having the portion of runoff that comes off agricultural land first flow through the pre-sediment and sediment ponds.

First two pictures are from a couple days ago right after a fairly large rain. Last two pictures are from today where enough water flowed the overflow pipe could not handle all of it so some was going over the emergency overflow. Most average rains the overflow pipe will handle the water.

Both ponds in last two pictures several inches over full pool.


Attachments
IMGA2165.JPG (243 downloads)
Description: Water in sediment pond flowing into the overflow pipe that goes to main pond

IMGA2164.JPG (198 downloads)
Description: Water flowing out of sediment pond into main pond during a fairly large rain event before sediment can fully settle out,

IMGA2180.JPG (205 downloads)
Description: Rain today flowing from sediment pond into main pond

IMGA2181.JPG (241 downloads)
Description: emergency overflow water flowing from sediment pond into main pond




Edited by snrub (04/29/17 04:00 PM)
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#481444 - 10/21/17 11:12 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5098
Loc: SE Kansas
Been fishing this sediment pond pretty hard to clear out some of the unwanted fish to give more room for the RES to reproduce.

If you read above I had a fish kill in this pond last year and restocked it about this time last year. Obviously it was not a total kill because I have been removing some HBG, CNBG and GSF that would be about the right size to have been fingerlings that survived last year. Hybrids and CNBG I move to my main pond and the GSF I either clip the tails and put in main pond for bass feed or get rid of them. Also been trapping with minnow traps and doing the same.

So some fish survived, but what about the RES I stocked? (the only thing I re-stocked). Well I caught two RES tonight and based on their size I would guess they were a couple of adults I stocked a year ago. If they were from the fingerlings I stocked they would have grown really fast, so I suspect they were not. At least it is good to know there are some RES in there, as they are the desired species I want to increase numbers.

Pretty nice RES. I would like to have lots just like them. Maybe I do and just can't catch them. crazy


Attachments
20171021_171400.jpg (119 downloads)
Description: First RES caught

20171021_174235.jpg (144 downloads)
Description: Second RES caught




Edited by snrub (10/22/17 12:51 AM)
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#483829 - 12/06/17 10:23 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5098
Loc: SE Kansas
This sediment pond is taking a new direction today, as far as the fish in it are concerned. Its primary function is to catch sediment and some of the nutrients from ag land runoff before it reaches my main pond. That function has not changed.

There is only about 6" difference elevation full pool of this 1/10th acre sediment pond in relation to my main 3 acre pond it feeds into. I have always assumed that eventually LMB fingerlings would swim upstream via the emergency overflow or the overflow pipe from my main pond into this sediment pond. I know northern BG have (I watched them do it) and CC have (I caught a few hook and line and netted a few at the time of the fish kill). But as far as I know no LMB. I think the only reason is that I am getting no LMB recruitment in my main pond. No small LMB in my main pond so none to be available to swim up during high water event.

LMB in this sediment pond changed today. I stocked 100 4"-6" LMB from Hartley Fish Farm. My thinking is I am getting more GSF than I want to see in this tiny pond. I knew some day the BG would over populate and I would need to introduce a predator if none got there via high water. But after the fish kill, more GSF survived than BG. I did restock RES but the GSF were likely to run roughshod over the pond come next year.

So......... I needed multiple sizes of LMB added to my main pond. I have friends catch LMB out of my main pond what appears to be in the 4-6# range. I caught one about 2-3# this fall. I have larger LMB but seem to get no recruitment. We filleted over 400 BG this fall and caught and released at least that many over the year and out of all that BG fishing I caught a total of 2 LMB. I should be catching various sizes of small LMB while BG fishing, but I do not.

So this pond is going to be the solution to the lack of LMB recruitment. That and the 400+ BG I removed from my main pond. Plan is to raise these LMB to a size my big LMB can not eat them, catch them by hook and line, and transfer them to the main pond where they are needed to control my out of control BG population. So this sediment pond is now going to be a LMB rearing pond for a time. The 100 fingerling LMB should whup up on the GSF in there. Once they get about a foot long I will start catching them and over a year period try to remove as many as I can catch before they reach spawning size/age. Then go from there. At some point I likely will get recruitment in this pond (because I will never be able to catch all 100 and remove every one) and face an over supply of LMB fingerlings. I guess I will cross that bridge when I get to it.


Attachments
20171206_131744.jpg (123 downloads)
Description: 100 LMB fingerlings stocked




Edited by snrub (12/06/17 10:31 PM)
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#490363 - 05/20/18 04:34 PM sediment pond doing its job [Re: snrub]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5098
Loc: SE Kansas
I'm so glad I built this sediment pond to take the brunt of runoff from my main pond.

Although it does not catch and settle out all the sediment from the agricultural land runoff, it catches a lot of it keeping it out of my main pond. Pictures below, first of sediment pond after about 1.8" of rain this weekend on already mostly saturated soils (so most run off). Second is of the main pond water. Notice its color compared to the sediment pond. Third picture is of water coming out of sediment pond into the main pond via the 8" overflow pipe. Notice there is still dirty water coming into the main pond but there would be lots more sediment and dirt filling the main pond without the settlement time from the water traveling the length of the sediment pond.

On a side note, we have had very little rain in big enough events to have much run off till recently. Subsequently the sediment pond has been very clear with a massive amount of FA. This turbid water pictured will pretty well do the FA in for the year.

Main pond within a half inch of being at full pool. Have not seen that for quite some time. It has been dry this spring.


Attachments
20180520_124402 (600 x 600).jpg (76 downloads)
Description: Sediment pond after 1.8" rain event on saturated soil showing turbid water

20180520_124416 (600 x 600).jpg (59 downloads)
Description: Main 3 acre pond near the water inflow from the sediment pond.

20180520_124446 (600 x 600).jpg (59 downloads)
Description: Turbid water coming in from the sediment pond into main pond. If a rain event is too big the water does not slow enough to remove all the sediment.




Edited by snrub (05/20/18 04:36 PM)
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#492583 - 06/24/18 12:56 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5098
Loc: SE Kansas
Update on the LMB stocked in this sediment pond with the purpose of growing them out to a size I can move them to my main pond. On another thread the discussion turned to BG suppressing LMB recruitment which is the problem I have in my main pond and the reason this sediment pond is being using as a grow out pond for the LMB fingerlings. discussion tangent starts here.

I have moved three of the LMB from this pond at about 10" over to my main pond. They seemed very easy to catch. But my further attempts to catch some of these stocked fish mostly result in catching 4-5" CNBG and hybrids with an occasional GSF.

So not sure if the winter killed some, the cormorant flock that I ran off several times got them, a large GSF that I don't know I have ate the fingerlings, or maybe the rest of them are just hard to catch, but the last couple times I fished have had no luck getting LMB to bite. Do I have any significant portion of the originally 100 stocked still in the pond? Don't know.

If 100 stocked LMB turns out to be 3 that went into my main pond and that is all there is, it is going to be an expensive stocking program to get three additional LMB into my main pond.

Will try fishing it again after a weather change.


Edited by snrub (06/24/18 01:42 PM)
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#492586 - 06/24/18 01:23 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5098
Loc: SE Kansas
Originally Posted By: snrub

My "How to kill fish even if you don't want to" story

I say lucky because this sediment pond is in the process of having a massive fish kill. I suspect some of the smaller ones will make it but still lots of fish piping at the top. Right after a big (around 4" total) rain event this pond was flooded with new, cold water. The other bad thing adding to the problem is we had spread chicken litter (manure plus wood shavings) on the field where the terrace directs water into this pond. We always disc this organic fertilizer in (to incorporate it into the soil) as soon as we apply but this time got caught and did not get this five or so acres done. This particular litter was very dry and dusty when we spread it so the very fine dust washed right into this sediment pond. Plus the stock pile was located in this watershed. At only 1/10th acre and multiple water exchanges it was just too much for the fish.

When I saw them piping at the top, there happened to be a strong wind that blew a lot of them to one end. Using a dip net I netted the larger ones and what was probably a thousand or maybe several thousand small ones from an inch to three inches. I got quite a lot in the day time but after dark where they could not see me I would get up to a gallon of fish per dip net full. So quite a few fish got moved to the main pond.

The main pond got some also, enough to change the water color slightly. But it being 3 acres and the sediment pond being 1/10th no comparison. The sediment pond looked like chocolate milk. The fish are still hitting feed there and seem to not be affected. I definitely am not going to need to add fertilizer though.

The good news is it is on my own land, we did the application ourselves and it is my pond. I'm just glad it was not adjacent to someone else pond. Lesson learned. We always incorporate this litter when we use it, but in the future even more attention will be paid to rain forecast and any fields near BOW's. My bad. At least it was on me and not someone else. On me is bad, on someone else would be terrible.

Another good news is I got to clean out some freeloaders in this pond. Everything of any size was floating to the top and it included 3 CC with one of them being a couple pounds. They got transferred to the main pond. A half dozen 6" GSF. A couple went to the main pond then I decided that was enough and the others were dispatched. One very fat 1.5# bullhead............. have no idea where it came from, but glad it was the only one I found.

So that is my experience on "how to kill fish unintentionally".

Edit: Yes I know, several GSF along with the BG and one either RES or RES hybrid. Probably some other hybrids in there too. Have got a lot of hybrids out of this pond.


Looking back at some of my past management (moving all these forage fish to my main pond during this fish kill - should have just let them die), is there any wonder I have excess BG in my main pond and not enough LMB???? laugh laugh laugh

I have moved thousands of additional BG, RES and hybrids into my main pond that was already at that time becoming over crowded with forage fish.

In my defense, at the time I built these ponds the general consensus was that LMB overcrowding was the main problem facing most ponds and that removing bass was needed to maintain a balanced population. So my mindset was toward creating more forage. Turns out that was not the problem I was heading towards. By feeding my fish regularly my BG population was doing quite well enough on its own but my thinking process was towards creating MORE forage fish when in reality I was already creating more than enough.

What I ended up with in my main pond is so many forage fish my LMB are either not reproducing or if they are all the recruitment is getting eaten shortly after hatched.

Now as a management practice I am raising LMB in this sediment pond large enough to escape predation to transfer to my main pond to correct my previous management practice of producing too many forage fish. crazy crazy crazy All the while removing (filleting mostly) lots of fish to keep the total biomass from exceeding pond carrying capacity.

Ain't ponds fun! crazy Actually they are. I have enjoyed every step of the process. And fortunately for me, in my case the journey is what the goal is all about. The goal itself (pan fish pond) is kind of superficial. I know that is not the case with many peoples goals (they want XXXX and are terribly disappointed if they to not get it), but for me the journey is the goal.

My motorcycle trips are the same way. The goal is not really the destination. The destination (goal) is just a means to justify the journey. It is just the way I roll. grin


Edited by snrub (06/24/18 01:45 PM)
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#492587 - 06/24/18 01:39 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 2010
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
I thought I could use my sediment pond strictly to grow FHM, but the pond it runs into (my renovated pond), when spillway full, backs up a couple inches into the sediment pond.

If I can get my renovated pond to completely stop leaking, I think I will connect it to the sediment pond by digging between them. With the levels of these ponds being what they are, and so close together, fighting cross contamination is a lost battle.

It's only about 18,000 gallons, and I would fear fish kills if I use it as a grow out pond.

Snrub's sediment ponds, I believe, are much greater capacity than mine.

I now have small BG and LMB in the sediment pond; I have cast netted many out, and put them back into the larger pond.


Edited by John Fitzgerald (06/24/18 01:45 PM)
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#492589 - 06/24/18 01:51 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2427
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
My pond has been like taking a trip on a ridged hard tail motorcycle. I enjoy the trip but encountered lots of bumps along the way. smile And as far as my sediment pond, it works great for catching all the sand and clay etc before it goes into the big pond and reduces the size of the big pond. But, when we get those big rains, it is just too much for the fish to handle. They will go belly up, or they get fungus to where I don't want them in the pond. But it does feed the bull frogs, they love that sediment pond. Had 14 in there the last time I grew fhm's.


Edited by TGW1 (06/24/18 01:56 PM)
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Do not judge me by the politicians in my City, State or Federal Government.
Thank The Good Lord the government in Washington DC gets little done.
Outlawing guns will make a lot of us down here in the South
Outlaws and proud of it

Tracy

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#492590 - 06/24/18 02:00 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: John Fitzgerald]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5098
Loc: SE Kansas
John F that is what I decided about what I call my "pre-sediment" pond. It was a tiny pond right ahead of my sediment pond that I tried also raising FHM. But I came to the same conclusions as you have and connected it to my sediment pond.

I wanted to be able to drive my 4 wheeler between them so did not want just a ditch between the ponds to connect them. So what I did was bury a 6" pipe between them then made the area between them rock and gravel just barely above water level. Then during minor rains the water just flows through the pipe but during any larger rains the water flows both through the pipe and between the ponds over the rock area.

You likely do not need that feature but that was my solution to both have the ponds together as one yet still be able to drive where I wanted to.

Here is the portion of this thread where I installed a tube between my sediment and pre-sediment ponds


Edited by snrub (06/24/18 02:07 PM)
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#492593 - 06/24/18 02:10 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: TGW1]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5098
Loc: SE Kansas
Tracy that is what I found in my tiny "pre-sediment" pond. Just too small for the huge flow through of water creating so much water exchange that it stress the fish something terrible. The small fish seemed to survive but any time I got some RES above about 5" in there a rain even would create the flow through and large water exchange and they would be belly up.

A tiny pond can be managed. But I have learned that if you have a tiny pond you better have a tiny watershed to match it because multiple water exchanges rapidly and it is a recipe for disaster for the fish in said tiny pond. Tiny ponds and big watersheds flowing through them just stress the fish too much.


Edited by snrub (06/24/18 02:12 PM)
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#492594 - 06/24/18 02:10 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 2010
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
If I do connect them, I want more than a six inch pipe between. I think a wide ditch with a footbridge might work. I can walk or drive the mower all around the sediment pond now, so a bridge isn't essential.

I'll try to edit this and post a pic showing what they look like when completely full.

Any connection will depend on stopping the leakage from the pond my sediment pond runs over into. I expect my dirt guy to start in about a week, if he hasn't forgotten me. He's at a job about 2.5 miles from here now.

Here's a pic with a blue outline showing how the ponds look when completely full. The pond on the right is two feet lower at the surface than the other ponds when full.


Attachments
Ponds 3-13-18 full.png (36 downloads)



Edited by John Fitzgerald (06/24/18 02:34 PM)
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#492595 - 06/24/18 02:17 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: John Fitzgerald]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5098
Loc: SE Kansas
I would think the wider the ditch the better if you wanted a bigger pond.

The small pipe I went with I did for a specific reason at the time. As far as the fish go a much larger pipe would have been better. But my thinking (right or wrong) was that the purpose of this pre-sediment pond was to stop sediment. During normal rain events (where the 6" pipe might actually handle the flow) my intention was to keep the water in the pre-sediment pond as long as possible to remove the most sediment. That is the main reason at the time I went with the small pipe. The pre-sediment pond is small enough I can clean it out with my backhoe. The sediment pond is not.

Had I been doing it strictly for the fish benefit I would have either put a big pipe or a bridge or simple expanded the two ponds into one L shaped pond. The small pipe was to aid in sediment retention.
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#492598 - 06/24/18 02:31 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
John Fitzgerald Offline


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 2010
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
The purpose of my sediment pond when we built it was to catch a big piece of the watershed that just missed the renovated pond. We could have done a terrace, but a small pond just seemed better at the time.

The runoff that comes from our hayfield even during big rains is fairly clear.

The main reason the pond originally had a lot of sediment was the trees that surrounded it, and many years of cattle using it.
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#494922 - 08/15/18 11:15 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5098
Loc: SE Kansas
Originally Posted By: snrub
Update on the LMB stocked in this sediment pond with the purpose of growing them out to a size I can move them to my main pond. On another thread the discussion turned to BG suppressing LMB recruitment which is the problem I have in my main pond and the reason this sediment pond is being using as a grow out pond for the LMB fingerlings. discussion tangent starts here.

I have moved three of the LMB from this pond at about 10" over to my main pond. They seemed very easy to catch. But my further attempts to catch some of these stocked fish mostly result in catching 4-5" CNBG and hybrids with an occasional GSF.

So not sure if the winter killed some, the cormorant flock that I ran off several times got them, a large GSF that I don't know I have ate the fingerlings, or maybe the rest of them are just hard to catch, but the last couple times I fished have had no luck getting LMB to bite. Do I have any significant portion of the originally 100 stocked still in the pond? Don't know.

If 100 stocked LMB turns out to be 3 that went into my main pond and that is all there is, it is going to be an expensive stocking program to get three additional LMB into my main pond.

Will try fishing it again after a weather change.


Have caught three more LMB and transferred to the main pond. An 11" one today pictured below. I hope there are some more. This pond is so full of FA either the forage fish in it have failed to spawn or I still have more LMB than I see and they are keeping the fingerlings cleaned out. Because I see and can catch quite a few 4-6" hybrids and BG but see very few smaller fish. Hopefully I have lots more LMB and am just not seeing them because of all the FA. The LMB I have caught look healthy and well fed.

Recently have been moving a dozen or more 6" SMB from my RES/SMB pond to grow them out here. I only move the ones big enough I don't think the LMB can eat. If I still have lots of LMB it is probably a mistake but if just a few LMB survived the winter/cormorants then the pond should be able to grow out some SMB.


Attachments
20180815_145639.jpg (49 downloads)
Description: 11" LMB caught and moved to main pond. This was a fingerling stocked early December last year. I'm happy with the growth.

20180815_145614.jpg (37 downloads)



Edited by snrub (08/15/18 11:17 PM)
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