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#430495 - 12/01/15 01:16 PM Re: Adding a sediment pond to an existing pond [Re: TGW1]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4725
Loc: SE Kansas
I did go out and cast probably about 15 times in the 1/10th acre sediment pond. Not a single tilapia.

Got nothing near shore so fish in general are definitely going deeper (or at least they are staying away from shore). Got a few CNBG and RES each cast out towards middle of this small rectangular shaped pond. Moved them to the main pond.

What I don't know is if they are already dead or not, especially the whites. I may have actually got most of the blues (I do know of a couple we missed that night). Funny thing is, I'm around the pond every day and have seen no dead fish on the banks. Did have a GBH frequent this pond daily for a couple weeks a few weeks back but surely he could not have got all of them.

Supposed to be warm(er) and sunny this week. Hope they will come up to the shallows near shore and maybe will get a chance at some more. Will keep watching.
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#430511 - 12/01/15 03:31 PM Re: Adding a sediment pond to an existing pond [Re: snrub]
Bill Cody Offline
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When the water temps drop below 55F-60F tilapia become hard to catch due to the cold temperatures are significantly reducing their need for food. As water temps drop below 55F tilapia become increasing more difficult to catch due to them becoming even more sluggish and increased stress from cold water. I try to do all my tilapia angling harvest before the water drops to 62-65F.


Edited by Bill Cody (12/01/15 03:35 PM)
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#446472 - 05/05/16 11:04 AM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4725
Loc: SE Kansas
Originally Posted By: snrub
Added a Pre-sediment pond to the sediment pond. Had room in the terrace channel coming into the sediment pond to make an approximate 40'long by 20' wide by 5-6' deep mini-mini-mini pond.

This one is small enough I can easily clean it out with the backhoe as needed. It should catch the largest dirt particles and any corn shucks or debris that comes of the agriculture field right next to it. Ag field is in the background in the first picture.

Water comes from the field via a terrace, through a double culvert that has a road over the top, and dumps directly into this very small pond. It then exits this pond and runs over about 30' of the original terrace channel (which is rocked and is part of a 4-wheeler road) into the sediment pond. Then ultimately the water goes from the sediment pond into the main pond.

Pictures are poor. It snowed before I thought of taking some. Will get better pictures when it fills with water.

The clay piled to the left in the first picture (to the right in second picture) will eventually be moved out and used elsewhere.

May throw a few FHM in it next spring just for kicks.


Wanted to add an observation to this thread. Last year I had added a few 4" RES to this pre-sediment pond and many many small 2" BG had swam upstream into it during numerous rain events (only time water flows) from the sediment pond and had grown to 3" or so. Lots of FHM too. I could observe them from the bank and trapped lots of them to put in the main pond.

An interesting thing happened. We had a reasonably large rain event that caused lots of flow through on this tiny pond (which is expected). I found a couple of dead 5" RES after the water subsided and no small BG to be found and only a small population of mid size FHM. Either most of the fish washed down stream into the sediment pond or died.

Previously high water flows have caused small fish to swim upstream and populate this pond. This time something else happened. I don't have a definative answer as to what happened or why, but somw possibilities.

First, the runoff of the corn field came very fast. There was probably at least a ten times full volume water exchange in this pond within a time period of a few hours (this pre-sediment pond is only about 40' long by 20' wide by 6' deep). It was a cold rain following unusually warm weather and warm water.

One thought is that extreme temp and/or Ph change got to the fish and killed them. Or at least some of the larger ones and the smaller ones stressed and washed into the sediment pond (it is about 1/10th of an acre). The other possibility is the field had been sprayed with a corn herbicide a few days earlier so herbicide runoff could have also possibly stressed the fish. Water went from clear/green with a nice algae bloom to muddy in a short time (the very reason this pre-sediment pond was built to be the first line of defense from runoff from this field - so it is doing its job). Or a combination of stress factors.

Loosing the fish is not a big deal. The tiny pond is to catch sediment before it reaches the sediment pond or main pond. I just thought it interesting observation of what happened after this small pond had been so fertile in small fish numbers and now it is almost without fish. The water is starting to clear up. I'm sure with another rain small fish will again migrate up to it and repopulate it. Probably for this same thing to happen all over again at some future date.

Tiny ponds with hugh flow through have some special chalenges.



Edited by snrub (05/05/16 11:12 AM)
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#446474 - 05/05/16 11:36 AM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
canyoncreek Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1768
Loc: West Michigan
Bill, do you have success angling for tilapia? What works for you?

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#446566 - 05/06/16 10:46 AM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
Bill Cody Offline
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Best way I have found to catch tilapia is to routinely keep feeding them at least minimally after they are stocked even if it is cat or dog food, but fish pellets are preferred. Then in late summer or early fall as soon as the water reaches 70-65F use artificial pellets on a small hook when feeding the tilapia. I like Stubby Steve lure/bait pellets.
https://www.stubbysteve.com/
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#446573 - 05/06/16 12:31 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
fish n chips Offline


Registered: 09/06/11
Posts: 2315
Loc: Northeast Ohio
In addition to what BC said; I started using some of the optimal fish food last year. It has more of a worm look to it. Since then, I can catch my tilapia more easily with a small crawler cut into short pieces, or with redworms. It seems with the optimal, they get more conditioned to eating other things that look like it.

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#446593 - 05/06/16 03:02 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
canyoncreek Offline


Registered: 05/07/13
Posts: 1768
Loc: West Michigan
GREAT ADVICE FnC and BC, I will do the same, condition with optimal, feed in the same area of the pond, try small worms, or even small rubber worms of the same color as the optimal, or try optimal in a small nylon netting. smile smile

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#446637 - 05/07/16 07:35 AM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
TGW1 Offline


Registered: 09/19/14
Posts: 2290
Loc: Harrison Co. Texas
snrub, I recently built a sediment pond to reduce the sand that comes through the wash (I dammed up). Reducing the sand that will go to the big pond. We have had two large rain events in the last 30 days and I have noticed a fish reduction in the sediment pond after these events of large water flows. I am not sure why I saw a reduction of FHM's and I have not seen any of the cnbg I added to this little pond.
I am now thinking, as u said, tiny ponds with hugh flows may be a special challenge, during the spring and fall rains we see here. But I am not giving up smile I should be able to raise a lot of fhm's when we stop getting these 9 to 13 " rains

Tracy
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#446648 - 05/07/16 01:29 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: TGW1]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4725
Loc: SE Kansas
Thanks for the added info on tiny sediment ponds.

I noticed as I fed yesterday evening that now the water has a huge algae bloom.

Went to muddy and almost fishless right after the rain, to clearing up to now bright green. Probably algae using fertility from the washed in sediment I would presume.

Be interesting to watch what happens over time. Think I will not add any fish back and just see what nature provides. See what fish swim back into it in subsequent rains and see how the remaining FHM population does.

I'm glad I built both the sediment pond and this tiny pre-sediment pond. Between the two of them it sure traps a lot of the muddy water and keeps it out of the main pond. During a big rain event the overflow from the sediment pond into the main pond will still have some sediment and add a little tiny amount of muddy look to the main pond, but nothing like what the two sediment ponds look like.

They are doing their job of extending the life of the main pond.

Plus the sediment pond is doing a secondary task of growing some forage fish. John F and his wife came up and visited our pond setup yesterday and he and I fished maybe 20 or so 3-5" CNBG out of it and threw them over into the main pond populated with northern BG and I did another 40 or so later that day (along with one RES). So although the pre-sediment pond may have a fish kill or at least fish loss, the sediment pond is still producing forage fish.
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#446658 - 05/07/16 06:22 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
John Fitzgerald Online   content


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 1893
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Did you catch them on the chartreuse grubs?
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#446660 - 05/07/16 07:27 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: John Fitzgerald]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4725
Loc: SE Kansas
I used the Crappie bites but I think they would have bit on anything. Had one on three out of four casts, around sundown.
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#446683 - 05/07/16 11:48 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4725
Loc: SE Kansas
Used both the grubs and Crappie bites tonight. About same response to both, but have to replace the bites nearly every fish caught and the grubs I can catch 5 or 6 fish before they are gone.

Caught 35 CNBG, 4 HBG and one GSF out tonight and transferred all but the GSF to the big pond. GSF was full of eggs and figured I had enough GSF influence already so it got destroyed. All in about an hour. Biggest CNBG was 6.5". Nothing big but fun.
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#446685 - 05/08/16 12:22 AM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
John Fitzgerald Online   content


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 1893
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
Sounds like a great time. Btw, Cabela's has the Gulp Alive chartreuse grubs in stock again. I picked up an extra jar of them while waiting for the 5 pm traffic to clear Friday. I49 is a mess.
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#449899 - 06/17/16 12:01 AM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: John Fitzgerald]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4725
Loc: SE Kansas
I've had some in my Amnazon shopping basket for several days but have yet to finish the order. Bought some pink Gulp Alive maggots at WMart and they work as well catching fish, but only last one or two fish. They seem to be made of a softer foam and the fish get them off easier.

Here is a picture of a RES and a CNBG out of this sediment pond. The third is a northern BG from my main pond.

Been moving every CNBG I catch from the sediment pond (fishing and trapping) over to the main pond. Leaving the largest RES as brood stock in the sediment pond. Hopefully by reducing the CNBG biomass the RES will have the upper hand on reproduction.


Attachments
IMGA1666.JPG (277 downloads)
Description: RES from sediment pond

IMGA1665.JPG (267 downloads)
Description: CNBG from sediment pond

IMGA1669.JPG (279 downloads)
Description: regular northern BG from main pond




Edited by snrub (06/17/16 12:04 AM)
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#454953 - 08/28/16 05:44 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4725
Loc: SE Kansas
An update to this sediment pond thread.

Do to the lay of this land and this sediment pond being nearly on top of the hill, the elevation between it and my main pond is minimal. I always knew that a large rain event would cause flow large enough that fish would likely be able to swim up from the main pond into this sediment pond. Till that happened, I was using this sediment pond as a forage and grow out pond to raise RES and some CNBG for the main pond.

Well this rain event: recent large rain event did the trick. And likely there have been other rain events big enough to do so also.

The reason I know? Caught two 12" long CC out of this pond while trying to catch some RES. So not only do I know these CC came from my main pond, it also tells me I not only have CC reproduction in the main pond from this year (been catching some 5" CC in it), but these would have been from last years spawn so I have had CC reproduction in the main pond last year also. Interesting. That is ok, we eat and give away lots of CC so as long as the numbers don't get excessive I don't have a problem with it.

Have toyed with the idea of raising the level of the main pond by another 4" by putting a 22 or 45 degree elbow on the overflow pipe. Have not done it because it would make the water levels within a few inches of the sediment pond making it easier for fish to travel both ways during a rain. Now that I know fish have already migrated I may go ahead and do it. If CC got there LMB are either already there or will be sometime soon.

No biggie. Knew it would happen sooner or later. Still have my forage pond with RES that as far as I know is not yet contaminated.
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#455094 - 08/30/16 06:32 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4725
Loc: SE Kansas
I've been getting lots of natural hybrids from this sediment pond because of a few GSF that got in there somehow. That is ok with me as I like the HBG. Here is a picture of one that has grown to decent size.

The markings on this hybrid are very similar to a lot of smaller size fish I have moved from this sediment pond to my main pond. I'm guessing it is HBG but RES/GSF would also be another possibility as there were actually more RES (175)stocked in this pond than CNBG (100).

Edit: Now that I look at the fish in the picture again, could it possibly be a CNBG/RES hybrid? Awfully small mouth for a HBG that is traditional BGxGSF parentage. White tipping on the fins like my CNBG.


Attachments
IMGA1799.JPG (243 downloads)
Description: Hybrid from sediment pond




Edited by snrub (08/30/16 06:37 PM)
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#455183 - 08/31/16 02:36 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
Hunterhoward23 Offline


Registered: 08/09/16
Posts: 19
Loc: Kentucky
The way the body is shaped almost reminds me of a red ear. A hybrid between a red ear and GSF would be possible too wouldn't it?

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#455188 - 08/31/16 03:20 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: Hunterhoward23]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4725
Loc: SE Kansas
Yes it would and I have been hoping to get some of that cross. I just question if the mouth is big enough to have GSF genes in it.

The translucent red border on the ear tab is what initially led me to believe BG/GSF but if it was a BG/RES or RES/GSF cross the RES part of the genes could account for it.

But a CNBG/RES cross would be ok with me too.


Edited by snrub (08/31/16 03:26 PM)
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#456273 - 09/20/16 06:34 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4725
Loc: SE Kansas
Here is another couple hybrids. Caught in my main pond but relatively certain they are from the many fingerlings (if trapped or caught by hook and line would have been transferred slightly larger than fingerling) that I have transferred over from my sediment pond.

These hybrid have distinct GSF characteristics.

The potential crosses are RESxGSF and CNBGxGSF. I'm guessing these are CNBG crosses.


Attachments
IMGA1861.JPG (210 downloads)
Description: HBG created in sediment pond

IMGA1862.JPG (171 downloads)
Description: Other side

IMGA1859.JPG (202 downloads)
Description: Another one




Edited by snrub (09/20/16 06:55 PM)
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#456278 - 09/20/16 07:17 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
peachgrower Offline


Registered: 07/02/16
Posts: 420
Loc: Nashville, AR
Got a question for you snrub...do you see a cross that you like better?? Maybe one with GSF that the mouth gape is small enough that it wouldn't impact your forage fish as much? Do they fight as hard as the pures? Just curious.

Thanks!
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#456281 - 09/20/16 08:45 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: peachgrower]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4725
Loc: SE Kansas
Come back and ask me in a couple years and maybe I will know enough to give you a reasonable answer.

I only became an angler later in life so I'm not much of a fisherman. The pond is all more of an experiment for me. I do like to catch panfish though. Caught probably 25 right before supper. One nice GSF, two 8" nice male BG and a couple smaller hybrids plus an assortment of smaller stuff, not to mention a 6" CC.

The reason I want some RESxGSF cross is just to see what they do. Something different than the regular BGxGSF hybrid.

I do like the hybrids. They seem to grow as well as the faster growing BG but my pond is only 3 years old so it will be interesting as I get into my 4-6 years to see where they each max out. RES can get a little bigger than BG so hoping the RESxBG cross would get to a larger size than the BGxGSF cross. As long as the fish are biting good I think the BG and the hybrids are equally easy to catch. But if the bite gets tough, the hybrids or GSF will be the ones that are most likely caught. They keep biting after the BG have become persnickety.

I just like to play with things and learn. I'm chasing no trophy's although I would take a Kansas GSF state record if I can get one that big.

Whatever you do, don't do what I do. Listen to the experts. I'm just passing along info so others can avoid my mistakes. grin

Right now I've got forage running out my ears and a shortage of LMB to eat them. Some would not consider that a problem I guess. But it does not fit with my pan fish fishery goals.


Edited by snrub (09/20/16 08:51 PM)
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#456283 - 09/20/16 09:00 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
peachgrower Offline


Registered: 07/02/16
Posts: 420
Loc: Nashville, AR
I think we are both in the same boat...I have fished alot in my life though. But only now actually know the difference in BG, RES, GSF, etc. Always called them "perch" or "bream" all rolled into one. Now that I've found this site I'm all in on the panfish side. Now most of my family will want big LMB....sooo those are there too. I hope to have a good balance. I'm like you, in that I'm not after trophys per say, but would love to have alot of 5-8# bass and LOTS of BG and RES in the 9-10" range for little ones to catch. I hope thats possible. Sure the occasional huge helmet head would be awesome, but I don't know if I can get both going.

I think I learn something everyday here though!
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#456286 - 09/20/16 09:21 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: peachgrower]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4725
Loc: SE Kansas
If I could get Jeanie from "I Dream of Jeanie" (if you are old enough to remember that show grin ) to twitch her nose and give me the perfect fishery I would have numerous 1# BG, numerous 2# LMB (with an ocasional larger one for my fishing friends) and numerous 2-3# CC.

I would much rather catch 10 2# LMB than cast all day for one 6+#. I get bored easily and if I am not catching something, go find something else to do that is interesting. grin
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#457334 - 10/09/16 08:36 AM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
snrub Online   content


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4725
Loc: SE Kansas
Some forage fish I have been trapping out of this sediment pond and moving to my main pond. Notice the one nice RES. Fortunately I have been trapping lots of fish and moving them and also have caught out a lot of the larger fish and transferred.

I say lucky because this sediment pond is in the process of having a massive fish kill. I suspect some of the smaller ones will make it but still lots of fish piping at the top. Right after a big (around 4" total) rain event this pond was flooded with new, cold water. The other bad thing adding to the problem is we had spread chicken litter (manure plus wood shavings) on the field where the terrace directs water into this pond. We always disc this organic fertilizer in (to incorporate it into the soil) as soon as we apply but this time got caught and did not get this five or so acres done. This particular litter was very dry and dusty when we spread it so the very fine dust washed right into this sediment pond. Plus the stock pile was located in this watershed. At only 1/10th acre and multiple water exchanges it was just too much for the fish.

When I saw them piping at the top, there happened to be a strong wind that blew a lot of them to one end. Using a dip net I netted the larger ones and what was probably a thousand or maybe several thousand small ones from an inch to three inches. I got quite a lot in the day time but after dark where they could not see me I would get up to a gallon of fish per dip net full. So quite a few fish got moved to the main pond.

The main pond got some also, enough to change the water color slightly. But it being 3 acres and the sediment pond being 1/10th no comparison. The sediment pond looked like chocolate milk. The fish are still hitting feed there and seem to not be affected. I definitely am not going to need to add fertilizer though.

The good news is it is on my own land, we did the application ourselves and it is my pond. I'm just glad it was not adjacent to someone else pond. Lesson learned. We always incorporate this litter when we use it, but in the future even more attention will be paid to rain forecast and any fields near BOW's. My bad. At least it was on me and not someone else. On me is bad, on someone else would be terrible.

Another good news is I got to clean out some freeloaders in this pond. Everything of any size was floating to the top and it included 3 CC with one of them being a couple pounds. They got transferred to the main pond. A half dozen 6" GSF. A couple went to the main pond then I decided that was enough and the others were dispatched. One very fat 1.5# bullhead............. have no idea where it came from, but glad it was the only one I found.

So that is my experience on "how to kill fish unintentionally".

Edit: Yes I know, several GSF along with the BG and one either RES or RES hybrid. Probably some other hybrids in there too. Have got a lot of hybrids out of this pond.


Attachments
IMGA1889.JPG (242 downloads)
Description: The nice fish I was trapping and moving to main pond before killing the rest

IMGA1888.JPG (253 downloads)
Description: One of the Gee's traps I use. This one with enlarged opening for larger fish




Edited by snrub (10/09/16 08:43 AM)
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#457361 - 10/09/16 05:19 PM Re: do sediment ponds work? [Re: snrub]
John Fitzgerald Online   content


Registered: 10/27/15
Posts: 1893
Loc: S. end of Elkins, Arkansas
You get flooded, our drought continues. Hope your fish kill stays confined to that small pond. The guy that gets our hay turkey litters our field. I am going to ask him to not spread litter above the pond in that 1.5 or so acres of the hay field in the watershed. The rest of the watershed is brush and neighbor's horse pasture.
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