Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations CNBG....straight up, or?

Te he they look like dinner to me George



Pat W

I'll try to post some 5-7" CNBG pics tomorrow. I just happen to have a few.

So....is this a CNBG exclusive trait? Or does it still work for northern BG?

Our northern BG males display tipping, and I can only recall a couple instances of females (?) that had this appearance, while it appears it may be much more common with CNBG.

George, if I can't give family a hard time, who can I?

Yep, you are my little Bro..;>)

OK, ear tab blocked out. What would you call this one?



Almost all of my CNBG that come out of the brood pond are almost snow white, with solid yellow fins. The water is iron heavy, and I lightly dye it several times a year to help keep algae down. The rest of the pics show some of the different markings from the same brood stock, and all were caught in a 10 minute period, so no seasonal differences. All were given a 5 minute soak to make the colors come out. IIRC, they're all 5-8" long.

Is it just me, or does that pectoral fin look long on that first picture? Looks like it would fold forward and extend all the way to the eye.

Al, if that was a northern fish I would declare "female". But now those confounded coppernoses have got me all confused.

They can confuse me too, especially when I'm just looking for any possible hybrids. The second pic was taken at an angle to show the vertical stripes with the spots between them, because they were almost invisible with a straight shot. She was the first CNBG I have caught with markings like those.

BUMP?

female
female
female
male
male

How'd I do?

Bottom 2 are male CNBG.
No 1 has a pect fin length like a RES (could just be an oddity) as the rest looks Male CNBG except blocked out ear tab.
All of them have the copper scale band across the nose (normally male but in juveniles uncertain.
If I had to guess 3 is the closest to a female.

Here's #1 unblocked.



This CNBG is about 5", and the ear tab was the determining factor to me. It appears to me to be a damaged male ear tab, but color wise, this is pretty much what all my brood pond CNBG look like before being tanked for a few minutes. This tends to make determining sex difficult for me until these fish hit 6-7". My male CNBG also tend to have a brighter, more golden brow, while the females are more copper and darker.

I've also looked, and don't have one picture of a large female. I'll try to get some this week.

[color:#000099][/color]

I have several photos of female OTS CNBG but just post the big males. I cull all CNBG between 5-7 inches and leave smaller for bass food. I release everything over 8 inches.

Here's a few females caught on camera...

!








Couple of these could be "tricky" but not to worry - all released!

So what do you guys look for to determine sex on the CNBG?

Small opercular?
Coloration?
Scale tipping?
Size?
Copper band on forehead?

Do any of these traits carry more weight than others, when you make a decision? I like to take multiple features into consideration, but I've always thought there were a couple of traits that carried more weight than others, namely the large opercular and scale tipped shoulders that I considered particular to males. Do you find this to hold true on CNBG?

I really thought Al's fish looked female, based on it's projected nose body dynamic, overall coloration, light chest area, and lack of scale tipping. But, I didn't know that it was only 5" long. If that fish had identical features except for being 8" long, would the prognosis still be female?

Another example is George's photos, 2 and 3. I don't know the length, but from my perspective I don't see any scale tipping, and I see a small opercular. However, those fish have a deep bronze or golden breast area, which I see on males up here, especially during the spawn. So to me, I have contradictory markers on the same fish. In this case I might let size help me decide.

Sorry for all the questions, just trying to understand these southern bluegills.

See this from the archives

COPPERNOSE BLUEGILL[/b] = CNBG





Found primarily in the southern U.S. Does not thrive in cooler, northern waters of the U.S.

Also an omnivore, that eats zooplankton, small fish and does quite well on pelleted feed.

High fecundity which enhances it's ability to act as a primary forage fish.

Can reach two pounds. One pound fish is considered large.


One Nice Coppernose -

http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthread...ite_id=1#import

CNBG variation Fla vs Ark -
http://www.pondboss.com/forums/ubbthread...ite_id=1#import

Now I think those photos Ewest posted are easy.... scale tipping, bright copper band, round body dynamic vs. more elongated, very dark breast area, larger opercular, (although I beginning to wonder if northern males have a more pronounced flap?),

AND, there's a reference in the photos that allows one to gauge size/maturity. I wouldn't hesitate to call those fish males. If that is incorrect, could someone please help me in determining where I've gone off track???

Tony, I don’t pay any attention to sex ID on immature CNBG - when they hit 10+ inches there is no doubt. Major characteristics for Male ID for me is large ear tab and prominate copper bar on nose.
Scale tipping iffy..

Thanks George. It does appear that a couple of your male CNBG have smaller operculars than what I would expect to see on mature fish.

Maybe a slightly different opercular shape also, compared to the northern BG's I'm accustomed to seeing....hard to say.

...more Male OTS CNBG

Anyone ever seen a CNBG that looks like this one?
Male or female?
Caught a couple of weeks ago, courtesy of Mrs. G/ …

George1

A lot of my CNBG look light like that cause of the water clarity, I think. As far as the fin damage or whatever it is they don't look that way
Pretty good looking fellers. I got mine from Todd.


Pat W

I can't tell if there's scale tipping or not... Small opercular... not overly dark coloration on the chest... unable to tell if nose projection present...fish appears "tall" however...size appears to indicate maturity....overall coloration washed out...

Once again, I go with female.

Tony, I really enjoy and appreciate your contribution regarding evaluation of characteristics of CNBG.

I don’t consider sex ID important to our program because of my culling program. Everything between 5 and 7 inches is culled and this is the most difficult sizes to determine sex for me.

I agreed with your female ID but was puzzled of coloration. I didn't measure or put it into live well to darken but would have helped, but since this has been more of an academic exercise for me, I did not bother. IMO “tallness” is an inherent characteristic of Overton’s CNBG - they appear to get “taller and broader when they approach 9 inches - I seldom see more than 10 inch CNBG these days.
I don’t know if Todd uses this characteristic in selection of brood stock.

Anyway, I ran this CNBG sex ID past Todd Overton - here is his response:

“This one looks like a male to me. We see this out of semiturbid water on our OTS.
Has a dark breast and opercular tab placement and size (should grow more) indicates male.”

Like Todd said in earlier post - "sex ID of OTS CNBG can be "tricky" for immature fish."

So this fish is an immature male? Would it be possible to elaborate on Todd's statement concerning opercular size and placement? What is seen there (opercular) that differentiates this fish from female??

Always more questions!