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First, much appreciation to all the great posters here that are willing to help do-it-yourselfers like me. Especially ESSHUP who has been very helpful so far. Here are some pond specifics and pond goals that might help narrow down some options:

Pond specifics- location: North Central Illinois

1. 2 acre, kidney shaped pond. 18 feet at deepest, most of it is 10-12 feet deep, with the shallower end at 8 or so feet.

2. From the peninsula in the middle part of the kidney, I have constructed and earthen under-water ridge all the way from it to the adjacent shoreline. It is appx. 5 feet high and will be appx. 6-8 feet underwater at full pool. Adjacent to the ridge will be various types of structure. Was trying to create the "fish highway" frequently talked about here.

3. A 20' x 60' Beach is currently being constructed at the southeast point of the pond. We will also add a dock with a 125-200 sq. ft. platform adjacent to the beach in the same SE part of the pond.

4. We will aerate the pond. Might pellet feed, not sure yet.
Depends on $.

5. Pond is fed by agricultural tiles and also by water gathered by a field waterway and settled out in a 1/4 acre silt basin that I just constructed last week. (Thanks PB posters for that idea).
Acreage for tiled water is appx. 30 acres. Runoff from waterway is the same 30 acres. Also 9 acres around property will drain toward pond.

Pond goals:

1. Fun recreation for Me, my wife, and 2 boys (and friends). Swimming, canoeing, ect...

1a. Grow really tasty fish. We love fish in some hot oil!! FAVS are YP, WE, CC, any panfish.

2. Grow some 4-6 pound wall hangers for dad to fight with. Was thinking SMB, but prevoius postings seem to say that SMB may not do real well when CC are present. Going to have a bunch of used tractor tires in various formations in the pond so if present, CC will most definitely spawn. Would really like to have CC to catch in the evenings with friends. Used to spend countless summer evenings doing that in nearby rivers/lakes with friends growing up. Great memories I want to pass on to my boys.

3. If possible, have something in the mix a little different, but overall a mix that doesn't take a biology degree to manage wink

Thanks in advance everyone. I will get some pics of the project this weekend and post to PB.


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I'm not sure I would want very much CC recruitment in a smaller pond. CC are pretty cheap to sock in larger sizes when wanting more. I also don't think 50 or so CC would have a negative impact on SMB, especially since you want wall-hanger sizes!

To manage for a trophy species, you want damn few of them in your water! So, CC would help accomplish that goal, and be a fun catch since you like them!

50 WE, 30 SMB, 1500 YP, and 400 Redear would make a pretty manageable combo along with FHM to jumpstart and Golden Shiners sustaining a minnow forage base.



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Thanks Rainman...

That mix sounds perfect for what I'm after. I am currently dismantling a used tractor combine salvage yard that my family owned for 60 years. I am the proud owner of 60-75 tires of various sizes (some huge) to dispose of. Have seen some cool ideas here on Pond Boss and plan on implementing all of them. That said, can I assume that the CC stocked will need to be single sexed?


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I'm not sure you could get sexed CC. As long as your original stocking number is fairly low, and you only restock as needed, your predators should be able to control most CC offspring when they are still small. Just don't practice catch and release on your CC, or you may have trouble getting a second chance, though I caught mine repeatedly in my personal pond using only chicken liver as bait. My CC never bit on anything else.

Stacking tires with no more than 2" gaps (top and sides) using 1.5" PVC pipe as spacers will make some nice safe havens for prey fish to hang in while predators stalk around them.



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You could also add Hybrid Crappie later and HSB at any time.



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Hey DeermanJ,

Sounds like we are neighbors. I also live in North Central Illinois. My pond is smaller than yours (1/4 acre) and I rely on runoff and an underground stream down about 5 feet. Do you have any concerns about in times of drought not having enough water?


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Bill D.,

I am about 7 miles NE of El Paso. Just south of the Windmills.

In regard to water supply, I built it as deep as I could with funds available and with pretty steep banks realizing that in times of extreme drought it will essentially be a bathtub. Going to aerate as well. That said, we have a fairly high watertable out here so it will have to be a pretty bad drought. All the ponds out in my area were down in 2012, but most were at least 2/3 full still. Lots of blue clay out in these parts smile


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Rainman,

Happy birthday!! Would love having Hybrid Crappie and HSB in the mix. The more diverse the better. What kind of fish removals/later stockings would be needed with that mix? I know that the WE would need to be added periodically.


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Congrats on the pond construction, Deerman - here's how I would advise a client regarding stocking strategy based on your goals as I understand them:

Spring 2015:

GSH 250-1000/ac Couple gallons of 3-4" fish with maybe a few larger to pull spawns in Summer would be ideal.

FHM - Be very careful here do not stock more than you can hand verify species ID. I've ruined two fisheries based on FHM stockings...two BG or BH or LMB and your fishery will be altered permanently. Try buying 1000 at a time throughout Summer - smaller batches help you remain focused easier. Try for majority small FHM [1.5-2.5"] as these are likely females or young males. Bull FHM are old males with maybe only a few months of life left - won't do you much good. BE CAREFUL WITH FHM STOCKING!!!!! Do not trust a hatchery/supplier when they say there is zero chance of contamination!!!! In a cool water species pond the balance is too delicate to sustain mistakes.

Grass Shrimp 250-1000/ac Once you get some vegetation established stock some Grass Shrimp. I recommend 250-1000/acre depending on existing fishery and density of vegetation in order to get them established.

Crayfish - I've seen recommendations as high as 1000/ac. I personally have had great success stocking 100/acre to establish population. Crays will help clean the pond, help graze vegetation, and adults will feed YP, SMB, WE, HSB and YOY will help feed your YOY fish population. Be sure to stock a non burrowing species like Papershell.

RES 250-500/ac - Since this will be your only panfish [for now] you can nudge stocking numbers upward. Since you are planning a cool water species pond, consider researching RBS per Travis recommendation.

Fall 2015

YP - 250-500/ac Consider getting them feed trained as I'm not convinced the amount of forage in your fishery for YP will be enough to have them thrive. Your FHM won't last, GSH grow fast and will be out of the gape range for YP fairly quickly, leaving the balance of the year YP relying on invertabrates and YOY RES, which are far less fecund than BG. I think feeding YP will help ensure they perform the way you need them to.

SMB - 25-100/acre Depending on your goals, trophy SMB or plentiful action, you can adjust your stocking rates accordingly. I'd also get these feed trained to help relieve pressure off your forage base. Depending on whether you see recruitment or not, you may need to supplementally stock these fish periodically.

WE - 25-50 I worry a bit about available forage for the WE as I do the YP, but at least trained YP are available which will relieve pressure from forage base for fish that will have to rely on it like the WE. Consider supplementally stocking annually so you have several year classes represented - adjust stocking rates based on annual harvest. My guess is your pond should be able to support a standing population of 100-200 adult WE with 4-6 year classes represented. Your WE will tell the story - if they are slow growing and low WR, you need to cut down on stocking qty or skip a year until things improve. Again, let your fishery dictate your strategy here.

HSB - 10-25/acre HSB are great fighters, good eating, aggressive, and can subsist primarily on feed which helps reduce their impact on a pond. I'd choose HSB over CC in nearly every instance given the option. They taste better IMO, won't reproduce and create a management issue, and can grow fast and large on pellets. I find my SMB and HSB coexist well and hunt/congregate in the same schools and play nicely together. SMB aren't shy about competing for pellets with HSB and get their fare share. HSB also aren't notoriously hookshy like CC - you can catch HSB multiple times unlike CC who should be removed once caught or you run the risk of never catching them again.
I would supplementally stock HSB so you have several year classes represented like the WE. I think 100 HSB would be the maximum your fishery could support and not run into feed $ issues or water quality concerns. Once your females reach 24"+ range in their 5th-6th year, you'll want to start harvesting them as the end is nearing and start supplementally stocking again. Fish body condition and harvest will dictate this schedule, just like with all your species.

Fall 2016

Supplementally stock WE, HSB according to strategy - might need to add some GSH depending on their success.

Fall 2017

Same as above - see how WE and HSB are doing - might need to pause a season, adjust stocking numbers, or adjust feeding if not performing well. GSH stocking?

Fall 2018

Same as above, simmer for a few seasons and listen to your fishery. If you have harvested a lot of YP, you may need to stock again. If you have no SMB recruitment, might want to consider stocking a few annually [15-25] to keep year classes/sizes represented.

Many variables - there's no "right" way, it all depends on your goals, harvest impact, recruitment, fish body condition, angling pressure, etc.

I know you are a CC fan, me too, but consider replacing CC with HSB. CC will be pellet hogs and the chance of reproduction could become management issue. Without LMB I fear there won't exist an efficient predator to manage population. If you must have CC, consider stocking them in the small silt pond as a put and take fishery.

HBCP - I stocked these and so far have not experienced a population management issue although they will reproduce. They will add pressure to your forage base, but do add another species for angling fun and harvest. Largest caught so far in my pond is 15"+.

Hope some of this helps - ask questions for additional details. I think your fishery sounds very exciting!

Finally - if you are going to invest so much time and effort to develop your cool water species fishery, research cost of popping a well to help provide supplemental irrigation. If your water table is high, depth cost will be lower as will pump size needed which reduces cost on pump plus power to run it. You only need 25 GPM to keep up with drought for a pond that size.


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Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57
Finally - if you are going to invest so much time and effort to develop your cool water species fishery, research cost of popping a well to help provide supplemental irrigation. If your water table is high, depth cost will be lower as will pump size needed which reduces cost on pump plus power to run it. You only need 25 GPM to keep up with drought for a pond that size.


Depending on how well it is sealed, or rather how much it leaks. With my pond, right now, it will leak 18 gpm. Pond is dug in sand, in a high water table area. Pond is down 54" right now. *I THINK* that if I were to pump more water into the pond, the level will rise, more bottom area of the pond will be exposed to water, more water in the pond will mean more water depth and the resulting more psi per square foot on the pond bottom. That (I think) will result in more GPM leaking out.

My well pumps 25 gpm. If I want to raise the water a foot in depth, it will take 31 days of pumping. If the well pumps 50 gpm, I can raise the water level that amount in 7 days due to the amount of leaking vs. the amount going into the pond. I don't feel comfortable in having a well pumping less than 100 gpm into my pond, and triple that would be even better. Maybe, just maybe if I keep it at full pool the amount of water leaking out will slow over time due to the surrounding water table in the soil getting artificially high, and possibly (but it's just a WAG) of the fines in the water plugging up the leaks.


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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
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Estimate provided is assuming pond was constructed well with proper compaction and hopefully not built on a gaping portal to the netherworld like someone I know. wink


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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teehjaeh57,

Much thanks for that well thought out plan. We are lucky enough to have some awesome blue clay that starts about 6' and seems to go on forever. We told the excavator guy to start digging from the existing pond bottom (14 or so feet down) and go till he couldn't reach any more and he never got out of the blue clay. We figured some 35-40 feet total. Never seen ground quite like it. Rolls up like a carpet in front of my dozer. Peels off instead of pushing. Weird stuff.


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ESSHUP,

Trade you some blue clay for an aerator?
Trade you some more for a feeder? grin


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If you are going cool water, limited gape species stock BNM [bluntnose minnow] and SFS [spotfin shiner]. Apparently BNM are more evasive than FHM, meaning they might establish a population or last longer, and the SFS reach smaller maximum size than GSH which allow adults to serve as forage. Think multilayered forage base for a fishery like this. BNM will spawn like FHM, those tires in shallow water 1-3' depth should be perfect. SFS require cavities in which to spawn - Bill Cody created structure using dowels, milk jug caps as spacers between cds. SFS deposit eggs in between the cds.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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Originally Posted By: teehjaeh57
Estimate provided is assuming pond was constructed well with proper compaction and hopefully not built on a gaping portal to the netherworld like someone I know. wink


Now that's funny.

Unfortunate perhaps, but still funny.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Originally Posted By: DeermanJ
ESSHUP,

Trade you some blue clay for an aerator?
Trade you some more for a feeder? grin


Done deal. That also includes delivery but not installation. wink

I'll take approximately 6,100 cubic yards please..... grin

Last edited by esshup; 10/31/14 01:56 PM.

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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
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I'll go Shawshank style and drop off a pickup truck load every time I go see my brother in Indianapolis. Unfortunately for you, I only have a 6 foot truck bed and I don't see my brother that often... smirk


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Guys,

Assuming a cold water fish mix, what is my best bet for pond bottom countours, earthen structures, artificial structures. Been scouring PB for help, and I know that fish highways are important as well as cover for forage and YOY. Spawning habitat key as well. I've got access to heavy machinery (small bulldozer and small front load crawler) for the next 4 weeks, so I've got options. See my first post on this thread for current pond depth, structure. I also have the following materials at hand:

-As much broken up concrete as I need (or have the energy to move).
-Prob. 15 ton or so of 3-5 inch rock
-10 ton or so of road gravel
-5, 30 foot telephone poles
-10 or so unearthed small maple trees
-60-75 used combine and tractor tires
-50 or so feet of 4 inch corrugated PVC tubing
-50 or so feet of 12 inch corrugated PVC tubing
-20 feet of smooth 12 inch PVC pipe
-40 feet of smooth 5 inch PVC pipe
-Plenty of buckets, sacrete, and small diam PVC pipe
-100 feet or so of old, galv. chain link fence.
-10-15 wood pallets
-Lots of 1/4 inch, heavy duty industrial metal racks (real heavy).

I know that's a lot, but I'll take any start I can get. Gonna start on structure placement next week!!! So happy to be at this point, been a long 3 year process to finally get this right. Thanks again guys.


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Less is more, in my book. Recommendation is to not exceed 10-20% of pond with structure. Remember vegetation will comprise a lot of structure, too. Whatever structure I add I use to try and provide focus points that collect fish and try to make it snagless, too. Access casting from shore or dock is important to remember, also if you ice fish some in deeper water is a good focal point in the Winter. Considering how much PVC you have I'd stick with it and bypass the maples, metal racks, poles, and fencing. That's just my personal preference.

You may want to research how to construct SMB spawning beds to encourage recruitment. I posted my design on clay bottom ponds that works very well, but there's probably many variations that would work. Pallets will come in handy for the SMB beds.


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DeermanJ,

I am up by Belvidere so I am a little further north than you

Thanks for reminding me I have several 100 feet of black 4 inch plastic drain tile, some solid and some perforated. I would appreciate any ideas from the forum on how to use it. Cut some into tunnels? How long? etc.

Thanks!

Bill D.


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teehjaeh57,
I think I ran across those. Thought about using pallet as the base, then place galv. fencing (cut to size) to let silt pass through. 3-5 inch rock on top of that, then some of the smaller road rock on that. Cinder block to make a half circle. Maybe some PVC set on top, around the side as well. Does that seem like it would work? Though about placing a few of those in 3-4 feet of water about 20-30 feet from one of my more dense structures so the YOY have some refuge.

Last edited by DeermanJ; 10/31/14 04:47 PM.

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Good, except galv will rust and break which could compromise your beds. I suggest using cheaper plastic from box store - will last a lifetime. I have some galv floating cages and a few have already rusted through.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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Guys,

I find myself at a crossroads regarding potential fish stockings. I was thinking about something a little exotic, but finding the broken concrete for a SMB, YP, WE, RES pond has been frustratingly elusive. I figured I'd have guys lined up to get rid of it, but so far that hasn't been the case. Funds are also tight, so I am trying to balance $ needed for a beach, dock, stocking, aeration, pellet feeding, ect... I'm running out of time as I've only got heavy equipment for 3 more weeks and winter just made an appearance in these parts. I've been thinking about going with a simpler mix requiring a little less structure, time, and $ while the kids are in the house, then perhaps doing the SMB, YP, WE pond later on. Whatever is done, I want it to be done right. I fear that at this point I cannot get my initial fish mix structure/cover/forage right with my current time and $ restraints.
Any thoughts or suggestions would be most appreciated.


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Would some mix of HSB, Crappie, CC... work for me? If I understand correctly you want minimal structure in this kind of pond to allow the HSB to keep the crappie in check. We love to eat Crappies, and the kids would have a blast catching them. I was going to intentionally leave LMB out of the mix so that I could transition to a SMB, YP, WE, RES, HSB fishery later on in life. Thoughts?


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Stock the fish you want without the structure?

The fish probably will do fine without it. They just might not reproduce like you want.

Someone correct me if that is wrong, because I'm asking, not telling.


John

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