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That's why there are very few if no pond stocking companies in Mi.

Here's the deal. If the pond has permanent water inflow or outflow structures in place (like an overflow drain) then the pond owner has to get a permit from MDNR. Since you are the pond owner, now you could be in trouble with the MDNR because of him.

I'd call the MDNR ASAP, tell them what happened, and get them to get a list of fish from the "helpful" neighbor. He's moving out of the area, he's dumping his problems on YOU. I wouldn't have been near as nice.....

I don't remember if it's a $50,000 or a $250,000 fine for having live asian carp in Michigan. While I doubt that he put any in your pond, what were to happen if he did, and 2-3 years down the road the DNR just happened to see one in your pond? How would you explain that?

Since I'll bet you have no idea what his new address will be, I'd get the MDNR there asap so they still can talk to him.


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Any update on whether the MDNR was contacted?



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I tried to contact someone, left messages, emails, no reply from MDNR.

While I'm waiting for them to call or contact I'm stressing about if I did the right thing. Nothing like putting your pond on their radar! next thing I know they may come out and say, who gave you a permit to dig out this retention pond (was originally a way to collect storm water runoff when the street was put in 20 yrs ago). Or they may say, we can see in aerial photos that there were about 30 plants worth of cattails on one side of the pond, they are gone now. You are now in trouble for disturbing a natural wetland habitat. Or maybe I did something wrong moving the sediment from the bottom of the pond without proper disposal permit or a host of other no nos.

Then they might ask what fish I stocked in there and ask me to prove it. I don't have receipts for the FA and GSH I put in.

Going to the law to complain about 'mote that is in your neighbor's eye' makes me worried that I might end up on the short end of the stick.. so if they contact me I may try to explain the 'hypotheticals' in this situation but all the encounters I've heard of or read of with the MDNR is that they are interested in finding a way to use any nitpicky rule or even their interpretation of any rule they choose to use to just be sure somehow someone ends up with a ticket every time. I haven't seen any of them ever act in a helpful or friendly fashion.

ideas?

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Talk about being caught between a rock and a hard place.

That's tough cc. I wish I had an answer for you.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Yeah... and the tilapia I put in there... no one can decide with the fuzzy laws in michigan if that is legal or not. I think it is legal, other PB members in Michigan use them too.

My pond does not have natural inlet or outlet. There is a conduit from the storm water holding tank at the end of the street into my pond. It is true that if the water came up too fast the pond could overflow its banks into the woods but there is no other stream or pond for it to go in. I would say that would be true of any other hole in the ground in any one else's front yard, that if we get enough water there is always a way fish can get out.

But you are correct, if the wrong fish gets in there and I can't prove anything....

I think for now I just let it be. If I have to catch a lone bullhead out at some point so be it. Do GBH get bullheads? How about birds of prey that dive into ponds?

If end up with tons of unwanted ones I can always pump dry and start over. If I did ever pump dry and start over, I would take that opportunity to put in a liner or would hopefully by that time know from other PB members if the new polymer sealants work or not and then wouldn't have to pump so much water into the pond anyway.

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Officer, the only way that I "know" any fish got in here is by the dog barking and seeing him with the bucket. Maybe that's how the other fish got in there?

Cattails? Must have been the muskrats. I wondered why they left. Maybe they ate themselves out of house and home??


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Originally Posted By: esshup
I don't remember if it's a $50,000 or a $250,000 fine for having live asian carp in Michigan. While I doubt that he put any in your pond, what were to happen if he did, and 2-3 years down the road the DNR just happened to see one in your pond? How would you explain that?




It's a quarter mil fine, 5 years in one of our fine brick motels where you get 3 squares of fake bologna, plus reparations to the state. These are up to penalties.

Last edited by JKB; 10/30/14 03:46 PM.
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Gotta be careful what I say, someone from the state capitol Lansing is probably monitoring this board right now! In fact saw a lurker post for the first time from Lansing Mi, I wonder if that is the MDNR going incognito?

Welcome EricMurphy, are you in the Lansing area? Welcome to PB, are you new or a long time lurker? (saw your post on the 'Getting old: Painful back pain thread' Perhaps you are a neurosurgeon?

Good to know others in Michigan follow along the PB forum. Any advice on Michigan rules/regs, stocking, good or bad experiences with the MI DNR? (I think now called DEQ)

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I remember reading of a guy that had HSB in his pond in MI. Got caught and they made him nuke the pond. I think that's all that came of that.

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True true esshup on the muskrat effect on cattails. I have big holes in the banks this spring but no muskrats to be seen, either they ran out of food or the dog got to them.

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Tilapia are now legal in MI, that, the state verified for me on their rules....Transporting them into the state however, is a fricking regulatory nightmare that the state vet can change on a whim.



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Originally Posted By: canyoncreek
Gotta be careful what I say, someone from the state capitol Lansing is probably monitoring this board right now! In fact saw a lurker post for the first time from Lansing Mi, I wonder if that is the MDNR going incognito?

Welcome EricMurphy, are you in the Lansing area? Welcome to PB, are you new or a long time lurker? (saw your post on the 'Getting old: Painful back pain thread' Perhaps you are a neurosurgeon?

Good to know others in Michigan follow along the PB forum. Any advice on Michigan rules/regs, stocking, good or bad experiences with the MI DNR? (I think now called DEQ)



Going incognito, they would hail from Texas, but the pics they post would have flora and fauna indigenous of only Michigan. That's how you tell wink

I know of a number of people that have had bad experiences with the MDNR, but they were poachers. The previous admin. combined the DNR with the DEQ, and that was a huge mess. The current admin. fixed that mess and are known to be fish friendly, at least from an Aquaculture standpoint. Problem is, that a new weasel is gaining ground with the lemmings, and that could set us back.

I also do know of a couple of instances when the Super Gestapo was formed (merged) by the previous admin. and that was true hell for their intended victims, but they held out and won.

DEQ is a separate entity from the MDNR. Both have quite a bit of power. One thing you do not want is to be on the DEQ's radar, unless you have a lot of money and are connected in high places shocked wink

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CC, does your pond have permanent inflow and outflow structures in place? (i.e. pipes would be one example)


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My guess is since it's on private property the MDNR won't even get back with you. Probably won't think it's worth their time. Sad but true.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Well, someone did finally reply today. Here is the reply:

----
At this time I would tell the homeowner not to worry about anything. If they were just typical aquarium fish they probably won’t survive the winter in the pond. If there is some sort of invasive fish that was released, it will not be able to go anywhere without an outlet. If over time some fish are noticed in the pond that don’t appear to be native fish you can have the homeowner contact us again.

If you need anything further don’t hesitate to contact me.
----

I don't like the part where they say that if some non-native species was found in the pond later we can worry about it then. Hmmm....

I guess for now I leave it as is that I at least tried to report it...

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No surprise there.

Now if it was something THEY should worry about as in grass carp escaping or trout that were planted without proper health testing they'd be over immediately. I know of someone in Michigan that was forced to drain their pond and kill the fish due to brook trout that were planted that weren't properly tested.

Did you specifically say you hoped they could ask the guy exactly what he planted? Did you contact the state or did you contact your nearest CO? Seems if you pressed a CO hard enough he would at least make the effort to find out for you.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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An ounce of prevention....well done, I suspect you are in the clear, but should still sweat the neighbor to identify what was released in your pond.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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Maybe its time to get Gweedo involved. A little friendly persuasion to help the guys memory along. A few broken fingers..... a broken leg...... ya know, just a little something to help the memory along so hes can remember what he dumped in the pond. grin


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Stop by either before or after you pay said visit...SMB and HSB are making their Fall feeding runs and fishing is solid.


Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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Originally Posted By: snrub
Maybe its time to get Gweedo involved. A little friendly persuasion to help the guys memory along. A few broken fingers..... a broken leg...... ya know, just a little something to help the memory along so hes can remember what he dumped in the pond. grin


You laugh but I knew a chemist whose place of employment did business with some folks in Chicago. He said they told his boss if he ever got any deadbeats to give them a call and they'd take care of it. So his boss did get a guy that wasn't paying his bill so he gave the Chicago guys a call. The man that had nothing but excuses when it came to paying his bill paid up really, really, fast.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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