Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Stocking a new pond with RES, YP and SMB

Scott,

I'm not seeing a hurricane in the Florida area. Are you?

Dang Scott, your makin me feel bad for havin to suffer through the upper 80s. As is most often the case the hurricane is on the right side of the state. Seems like the ocean is more productive than the gulf. When things do get stirred up in the gulf it seems that it is usually north of where I am. Stay warm.

This is what I get for opening my mouth before checking facts. I thought it was also going to sideswipe Florida, because I thought Bermuda was further South.

Oops......

http://www.usatoday.com/story/weather/2014/10/16/hurricane-gonzalo-bermuda/17345911/

Haven't seen any sign of the YP feeding as of yet... I'm sure the water temps have dropped alot, but as of few days ago the FHM and GSH were still feeding well. That was before the latest cold front and high winds we've had over the last few days.

Were gearing up for the deer season right now and moving some of the stands we should of moved earier in the year when we didnt have time.
My number one goal this season is to get Gabe, my son on his first bow kill. He's really showing an interest in bow hunting and is asking to go alot, which makes me very happy!

He has became very active this year in the preparation for the season. Been a big help with things like planting food plots, mowing and trimming around fruit trees and hanging stands. It's really nice to have help with these things, but more importantly a good thing for him to see all the preparation that goes into a season and not just go sit in a stand over a food plot and harvest a deer.

Enjoy that warm weather down there Bob, were looking at 60s for highs and I'm sure down hill from there...

The YP will get hungry and some will revert to eating pellets rather than chase minnows. I have found that as the optimal forage size FHM become scarce the YP will look for alternative foods. Keep feeding pellets. Minnow activity eating pellets will attract the YP to the area either for easy to catch FHM or easier to eat pellets. YP are school or grouping fish. I predict when some YP locate the pellet feeding area a lot of YP will show up for pellet additions. Note this may not happen until right after the first spawn when spawned out YP are hungry and looking to regain good body condition and fat asap.

Does anyone think it odd that I have seen no sign of the 50 GSH stocked last spring or the 25 7-9" YP and 25 3-4" RES stocked last fall in a 1 acre pond? No sign of the fish or fry. Lots of FHM of all sizes can be seen easily. Is this just too few fish in a 1 acre pond to expect to see them? I expected the YP to spawn in spring, but did not see any sign of this.

That is not very many fish in an acre.

No experience with YP.

The only time I would expect to see RES is in spring in shallow water during spawn. Other than that don't ever expect to see them unless you catch one. They likely were not big enough to spawm this last spring.

You should be able to sample GSH with a minnow trap.

Edit: If the RES were put in early enough last fall they might have reached maturity and spawned. I put some fingerling RES in this spring and saw them making nests late summer but don't think they were successful at recruitment.

GSH are more open water minnows but I've caught them in minnow traps baited with pellets, if your fish are used to pellets.

RAH - what kind and size of predator fish are in the pond?

Only FHM, GSH, RES, and YP. Next will be LCS, and then SMB, but I want to see GSH and YP fry before the SMB. I will only add 10 to 12 SMB when I am ready.

How do you know that some of the YOY minnows do not include small GSH maybe 5%-20%? Your strong forage fish populations could be eating the YP new hatch vulnerable swim-up fry. Did you place some twiggy tree limbs in shallow water along the shore to see if YP were laying eggs?

The minnows could contain GSH fry. I did not see any fry that had the shape of YP. I have several piles of tree limbs but did not see egg strands. I just may need to wait longer. Hopefully, I did not get all of one sex.

It would be a good idea to add some more YP this fall to increase the changes of mixed sex; maybe 25-40 4"-6". They are not expensive around 1.35ea.

My problem was finding them close by. I paid a lot for the large one's I got last year from Jones. I did not find any dead, so hopefully I have at least one pair left.

Cody Note: Your hesitation to drive 2-3hrs for some YP reduces your options. American Pond & Lake Management Russiaville, IN may have some YP next spring.

Id like to get some opinions on stocking 3-4" feed trained SMB this fall vs. stocking larger ones next fall... I'd like to stock for my first SMB spawn for 2015 to coincide with my first really strong YP spawn. If I do stock them this fall I'd keep the numbers down with hopes of keeping pressure off the forage base. What would be a good number to stock with this in mind? I was thinking something like 60 fish in 3.5 acres... (Took measurements off new google earth pics and realized I actually got a 1/2 ac bonus!). Is this number too low? This seems like a really low number to stock...

FHM, GSH and LCS were stocked in Mid April. These fish were fed all summer and seemed to do quite well. FHM numbers seem to be quite high, GSH are 5-6" and the LCS are in the 3-6"+ range. 3500 crayfish were stocked in mid Sept. and 420~ 4-5" YP were stocked a few weeks ago.

I have continued to add rock to the pond all summer and really feel like there is an abundance of rocky habitat for the crayfish. I think the GSH and LCS should be big enough to survive unless I'm mistaken?



I'd like to hear the positives and negatives of both scenarios. Thanks in advance for your thoughts!

This has gotten to be a long, very educational thread; if I remember correctly, your goal is for some really trophy quality smallmouth [if I'm mistaken, apologies and disregard].

In this scenario--

1] I would keep my inital stocking VERY SMALL-I'd go for 20-25 fish. They'll have a perfect environment for exponential growth. When they start reproducing, your forage base is going to decline in a precipitous exponential manner, and if your initial stocking is even moderate, those big fish at the apex just won't have enough to eat to take them from the 2-3# range to the 4-5# range.
2] If you do stock this fall [and I think this is a good idea] I wouldn't bother with the extra expense of feed trained fish. For one thing, you won't be feeding them over much of the winter. You have plenty of forage to sustain them, and given an absolute feast such as you've laid out, many of them would come off pellets anyway. Add the feed trained fish in the spring, you can start feeding right away and reap the benefits from their training.

You've got a fantastic pond, and it'll be really interesting to see how your smallies and forage base interact over the next few years. My suspicion is that you'll not be sorry if you start with a small number of SMB--you'll definitely have recruitment, and although smallies don't have the same reputation for voraciousness as LMB, given ideal prey species, they're extremely efficient.

FWIW, the SMB in my pond remember how to eat pellets from year to year, and I didn't feed at all last winter. IIRC 6 months without pellets.

I agree, smaller number is better for your goals.

At the risk of nitpicking...3-4" age 0 SMB could be your suppliers runts/least desirable fish from this year - so if that's your only option, you should keep that in mind. Runt fish do not represent the genetics you want to achieve trophy status.

As a comparison, the smallest SMB I collected this year from my reproduction/growout cell was just under 4" - most ranged 4.5-6" with a dozen that were amazingly 7-7.5" and my top fish was just under 8". In order to serve as a comparison with your source - my fish spawned in late May this year and grew out for just under four months. If your fish are from way up North, the later spawn and shorter growing season might account for some difference in size, but I shouldn't think it would represent that much difference.

Just something to keep in mind - I'd be looking for 5-7" SMB this time of year or would wait until the following season. If you are having issues sourcing SMB - I'm sure Esshup, Cody, Cecil or Rex can help you. I'd be proud to have some Hudland SMB up in IN, but the list next year is already pretty long and there's no guarantees with SMB recruitment - I'd hate to be unable to deliver on a promise. Thankfully SMB are finally catching on in NE!

Yolk, Holy cow only stock 25 fish total or per acre? I assume you were talking total...Thats a bit surprising to me for a 3 1/2 ac pond. I get what your saying about keeping the numbers down so they can thrive, but will we even know theyre there with that low of numbers?

TJ, I kind of wondered about that size being runts of the year, but thought it would be best to keep them small as not to risk my forage brood stock. Will 5-7" fish be safe with the fish sizes in the pond?

If anyone has any info. on who may have some good quality SMB in stock Id appreciate any recommendations...

Thanks guys!

Fish Farms that are in it for mainly money will crowd SMB into the growout pond and often the average size of YOY in fall is 3" maybe 4". If trophy SMB is the goal it is wise to locate larger YOY stockers. The growth of inches that is lost the first year is always reflected in the smaller final size of the adult. Fall 3" sized SMB will make it to 4-5 lbs but not likely larger. BE aware that some fish places may be selling 6"-8" SMB in fall that are 2 yr old, however almost all SMB sell out in fall or the next spring.

I think it just depends on your goals. Balanced fishery with good population of 2lb range smallies? Definitely too low. Chance of a few fish pushing 5 or 6 lbs in a reasonable time frame? Probably not off the mark. As I mentioned, you've done a spectacular job of being patient, developing a great forage base, now you have to decide how you want to utilize it. If you're really interested in growing exceptional smallies, keeping the initial stocking numbers low will be really important. Eventually you'll have a pond with a lot of smaller smallies anyway, unless you do a lot of culling, so your initial stocking, and the explosive growth that accompanies the introduction of predators to most well prepared new ponds, is your best chance to develop some really spectacular fish.
Put another way, if you do 25 fish/acre, in a year or two you'll likely have 50-60 [or more, depending on survivorship] 2lb smallies which will need to consume a couple hundred pounds of forage to gain that next pound to become 3 pounders--all the while competing with their own offspring. Yes, some will take pellets, which will take some of the load off, but I think they'll prefer the natural forage, and may well grow better on it.

A low density stocking strategy will work to grow big SMB, keep in mind that following their first spawn you will likely have a large year class of smaller SMB as they work to fill the void. Your initial stocking fish will likely be difficult to catch.

"Smaller smallies"? I stand here aghast. What about diminutive? Or petite?

All is not right with my world on this October morn.




Seriously, I agree with Yolk. It's all coming down to goals, and what you want from the pond.

You're just mad because we've created a 23 page thread about something other than HBG.

Hey I'm all about sharing the spotlight. Even something like a ba... a ba... a baa....a member of the micropterus clan deserves a few minutes of fame.

I could have phrased that better.

How about a large subsequent year class of SMB that with a lot of competition that are long and lean due to the heavy competition? I stocked my little pond late in October 2011 with 5-8" SMB and they pulled off a spawn the following spring. That 2012 year class is now 10-1/2" and they all have a very lean look to them, I have been working on thinning them down.