Pond Boss Forums STOCKING A NEW POND Types of fish to choose Stocking a new pond with RES, YP and SMB

Man, tough crowd this morning....let me try this again:

After introduction of an apex predator, anterograde progression through the time space continuum absent external population control depletes the most abundant forage base, resulting in protein-calorie based phenotypic degradation from heretofore robust individuals to a collection of rather ravenous asthenics.

Intellectual whips...like the kid who takes the football home. Notice how the conversation abruptly ended?

Ahhhh......much better. Put a smile on my face even in the doctors office.

Actually, I liked the less complicated, easier to understand explantion...Lol.

I guess by going with the lower number of say 25 fish for the first stocking you kinda of in a way get the best of both worlds as long as you do in fact have the predicted successful reproduction of the SMB. Have the best chance for truly large fish with the first stocking and get to catch a large amount of fish after they reproduce...

Shorty, why do you say the first stocking of SMB will likely be tough to catch? Because there will be so few or because they will get educated quickly and become hook shy?

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After introduction of an apex predator, anterograde progression through the time space continuum absent external population control depletes the most abundant forage base, resulting in protein-calorie based phenotypic degradation from heretofore robust individuals to a collection of rather ravenous asthenics.

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Don't ya just hate it when that happens?

Man those words ain't even in my spell checker.

In a nutshell, lot's of food and very little competition. You can get around hook shyness by mixing up the lures that you fish with.

I have GSH in my pond and a very large size class of 6" GSH that are simply too large for my "petite" SMB to utilize, but they are just about perfect size for the small number of SMB that I initially stocked.

That makes sense shorty. How long have the 6" GSH been in the pond? I seen you said you stocked 5-8" smb in October 2011, How large are the original SMB now? What other forage are present for these larger fish?

I have YP, RES, SMB, and GSH my 1/4 acre pond. 3 dozen GSH were stocked in June of 2011 along with with 5-6 dozen FHM. The current 6" GSH are offspring of the original 3 dozen that I stocked.

The original 20 SMB are now 15-1/2" to 16-5/8" but I seldom catch them. I also stocked another 50 feed trained SMB in 2012 not knowing that my initial 20 SMB had pulled off a spawn. That first SMB spawn also had a lot of competition from GSH while they were young which led them to being somewhat lean which is still evident today.

New ponds are fun to watch the boom and bust cycles of things living in it.

I think my brain just broke.

Who's on first?

Pat W

Noting unusual. Yok is just whuppin up on Sparky.

Noting unusual. Yolk is just whuppin up on Sparky.

Yolk has been watching too much Big Bang Theory. LOL.

You can say that again.
I've been trying to get my own back ever since he utterly humiliated me in The Great Testosterone Debate.

Ah yes, I had forgotten about that. How curious.

I have my main pond stocked with several cool water species apex predators, including SMB [YP, WE, HBCP, HSB]. Also, I manage several fisheries with SMB locally, and raise them on my hobby hatchery for distribution...my point being - they are my favorite fish!

Dave's suggestion to stock 5-10/acre would follow my direction to a client in order to achieve a truly trophy SMB fishery. Appropriately sized forage should be abundant, competition low, prime feeding/ambush areas plentiful and the SMB will respond with rapid growth. I think you have a real shot of growing some 4+ females in this scenario - maybe larger.

HOWEVER - before you commit to this goal, remember that establishing the trophy SMB fishery goal also means angling rate will be low due to abundant forage and low population. If they are constantly well fed, their response to angling may not be as aggressive as you'd come to expect from SMB. It's entirely possible you will never catch all those fish, and some fish will become hook shy quickly. Changing presentations per Steve can help, but my "trophy" HSB [24"+] and SMB [17"+] will only fall for live bait or pellet fly imitations now in their 7th year. They've seen everything else and have become very wary.

Not intimating this is a deal breaker, but you may only sample some of these "trophy" SMB once or twice a season, and supplemental stocking down the road might be necessary if you want catch rates to improve. Of course, if you have recruitment from the original brood stockers, the supplemental stocking may be unnecessary. GSH are relentless on YOY SMB, however...I've seen pods of 1000 SMB fry reduced to handful in a week or two - they are very slow and visible and hang close to their nest area. SMB are also highly cannibalistic...I estimate I raise less than 1% of my SMB fry to adults annually due to starvation and cannibalism. Crazy attrition rates!

Just something to keep in mind when going the trophy route...if you are interested in more of a middle ground, I recommend to clients anywhere from 25-75/acre. High side if they are pellet trained, have little time to fish and want action when they can make the time. This advice is especially designed for the absentee land owner who may only get to fish a dozen times annually - when they are on site, they want action! Their position makes sense, too.

TJ - That is great SMB raising advice. I should be in the Archives.

Thanks for the post TJ, I'm really struggling with this as I have a fourteen year old son who loves to fish and wants to catch fish... I may very well go with a higher stocking rate to meet a middle road in order to get a higher catch rate... Those 2-3# SMB are still alot of fun to catch even though they aren't "trophies".

JamieE, since you will be feeding, and the YP will be growing fast, why not stock some HSB? They won't spawn, they are usually pellet trained, and will fight pretty good. Remove as caught to eat or release back into the pond. Keep the low number of stocked SMB, to keep on track with your goal of trophy SMB, but target the HSB and YP for the majority of fish to catch?

I concur with Scott and I encourage my few cool water clients to follow this same stocking plan, especially since you will lack an aggressive panfish species for kiddos to tangle with. RES can be caught, but less frequently than BG or PS - and it only takes one drag screaming run of a HSB to get a kid addicted for life.

You could ladder stock 10-20 HSB annually as your harvest plans and fishery dynamics dictate. HSB and SMB will help manage the YP population but pellet feeding will help ease pressure off your forage base, too.

Have you considered ladder stocking some bonus WE also? I do this, and it's a blast.

On the topic of panfish species: Have you considered HBG? If you selected Male only you could have a nice companion panfish species that's aggressive, grows fast and large, can be easily pellet trained, and won't reproduce except with RES creating an interesting BRESGSF hybrid. Just a thought - Tony would be the expert to consult on his thoughts RE HBG.

Have you considered RBS? Travis, who has a lot of firsthand experience with, thinks they could be a good cool water, limited gape companion panfish species as they are more fusiform and not as fecund as PS or BG. They are pretty fish, run smaller than BG but IIRC larger than PS. I also think they spawn in Fall, which would leave their YOY very vulnerable to predation with lack of vegetation all Winter long, so population management might not be an issue. I have never seen a RSB/RES hybrid, and if you managed a late RES spawn and could produce one, it would be spectacular scientific news!

Just some ideas...love your fishery regardless, it's shaping up to be very interesting and will help add to the volumes of knowledge on the forum.

I totally relate! In my case, I have BG forage base so I can push the numbers on SMB, HSB, et al in an effort to manage the BG population...that's a very important difference in your fishery and most others on the forum. I have a very unique predator heavy/forage heavy fishery that, for now, is balanced in a manner that achieves my goals. Lot's of mistakes mandated corrective strategies [150 HSB, 100 WE, 150 HBCP, 300 SMB] that I learned from the forum. Nate was one of the first to push the envelope and suggest ridiculous qty of HSB and SMB can manage BG...and he was right!

Back to your fishery - You could always start on the trophy run, with limited initial stocking rate, and once you grow your girls up to size you could supplementally stock more SMB in a few years in case recruitment isn't happening. There isn't a wrong way to address this - supplemental stocking or culling/harvest can nudge your fishery in the direction you want it in a relatively short period of time [2-3 seasons].

One thing is certain: Experiencing the fruits of your painstaking research and labor will be one of the most rewarding experiences of your lifetime, guaranteed. We, too, will benefit as a community and can help direct new efforts to establish similar fisheries.

Oh crap, there goes the neighborhood.
Ya happy now, Sparkie? Thread only made it one more page.

If fish are sourced out of state, depending on what state they are sourced from dictates what permit is needed to import them.

I received this from the State in August, 2014:


So, finding some of the less common fish might prove to be difficult or at the very least more expensive.

HSB and SMB seem to be pretty compatible and work good together also in my experiences especially if pellets are fed. I had a couple ponds where SMB recruited young smallies when 10-12 HSB/acre were present and pellets were fed only occasionally 1-2/wk. Not sure how many more could be stocked if pellets were fed daily to keep HSB focused on pellets and not small fish.

7" GSH (caught tonight)


16-1/2" SMB (one on my original stockers 3 years ago)