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#390954 - 10/28/14 08:09 PM Re: Stocking a new pond with RES, YP and SMB [Re: JamieE]
JamieE Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 166
Loc: NE Indiana
I have actually thought about adding HSB, but won't they further lean on the forage base similar to additional SMB? I know they are much easier to keep on pellets then the SMB will be so I assume they may not be as tough on the forage as Smallies would be? If they'll be similar I'd probably prefer to add SMB instead. I could add a few of them to at least try, but to be honest they don't really fit into my vision for the pond. I really like SMB!! They would have to be my favorite fresh water fish by far!

I'm definitely not ruling the HSB out, but I think I'll hold off for now and see how things are going in a couple years.

The HBG are probably not going to be much of a consideration for me ( sorry spark). Ive heard they bite swimmers horribly and my wife would not like that at all! Also I just don't like the looks of the things... They look too much like green sunfish to me and I personally dislike them. Now the the RBS is a different story... Those are beautiful fish! If I was sure they would not over populate and stunt I'd be real interested. I wasn't aware that they we're fall spawners. That's definitely an interesting fact! Anyone know if they bite swimmers similar to BG?

I really appreciate you guys and all the compliments and interest in the pond, but I really owe it to all to you guys. Every bit of success I may enjoy will come directly from the knowledge I've gained from this site.

I agree that the end result for us with the pond will be extremely rewarding and it's awesome to see a dream take shape!

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#390960 - 10/28/14 09:26 PM Re: Stocking a new pond with RES, YP and SMB [Re: JamieE]
sprkplug Offline
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Personal observation: our HBG are less problematic than native BG when it comes to biting swimmers. Sure they can bite, but think about it....who here has been bitten by a 3/4 lb. native BG? Not many I'll bet. It's those hordes of 2-3" fish that are the nippers, not the larger fish.

If HBG are utilized and managed accordingly, there should be extremely limited numbers of smaller fish...recruitment, after all, is not desirable. HBG are put and take fish, and adding 3-5" individuals as needed is the accepted practice. At that size, instances of swimmers being bitten should be very short lived, if it occurs at all.

We've had HBG stocked in our swimming pond for 5 years. My wife, kids, nieces, nephews, all swim there. Biting is not an issue.

Our native ponds on the other hand, can be a different story. We have recruitment, and plentiful numbers of those 2-3" biters.


Not trying to change your mind, just pointing out a personal observation.
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

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#390964 - 10/29/14 12:25 AM Re: Stocking a new pond with RES, YP and SMB [Re: JamieE]
teehjaeh57 Offline
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It's interesting - several people have posted about BG nibbling on them. I have never experienced this - ever, and I've been swimming in BG waters since I was 2. Guess I should credit BG for their discriminating taste.
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#390972 - 10/29/14 08:32 AM Re: Stocking a new pond with RES, YP and SMB [Re: JamieE]
Bob-O Offline
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"I really appreciate you guys and all the compliments and interest in the pond, but I really owe it to all to you guys. Every bit of success I may enjoy will come directly from the knowledge I've gained from this site."
Jamie, well spoken, accurate and is true for a lot of us. The only bad things in/around my pond are results of my ignorance or not listening. I do think you are being a bit modest tho. Seems like ya may have contributed a good deal of labor and good planning and deserve a pat on the back.
As for the HSB, they are very fun to catch, do not reproduce and can be put and taken as desired. If you add more SMB, with all of the bedding areas you have they MAY want to over reproduce. With the size of your pond I don't see where a dozen or so HSB for an added thrill would be so bad.
Also thanks for providing so much info in this cool thread.
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#390976 - 10/29/14 09:02 AM Re: Stocking a new pond with RES, YP and SMB [Re: JamieE]
JamieE Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 166
Loc: NE Indiana
Hey Bob, hows the Florida sun treating ya?! No pats on the back for me Im just all ears when these guys are offering up advice from theyre past experience... I feel fortunate that alot of these guys have already made some of the mistakes Im sure I would have made with out theyre advice.

Well I pulled the trigger on some SMB and will be putting them in the pond this afternoon along with 900 RES. The pellet fed SMB are pretty tough to come by so I feel fortunate to be getting them. They will be 5"+ fish and originated out of Wisconsin. So this I'm sure has something to do with them not being larger in size. I decided to go with 50 fish for now with hopes that they will grow well and have some limited reproduction to further stock the pond and give us more fish to catch in the future.

These fish are coming from Jones fish. I know some of the guys on here are not real fond of the way this company hauls fish, but I have had great luck with theyre forage species so I'm going to give them a shot. The truck is coming right to the pond. The fish arent cheap, but they are supposed to be super nice and healthy fish so I will find out later today.

The RES Im getting are supposed to be raised in a monocultured pond so Im hopeful I dont have to worry much about a different mix of sunfish species being present. Can RES be easily recognized against other sunfish species at smaller sizes? Im getting 2-4" and 4-6" RES.

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#390977 - 10/29/14 09:20 AM Re: Stocking a new pond with RES, YP and SMB [Re: JamieE]
Shorty Offline
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Registered: 07/28/05
Posts: 4231
Loc: Raymond, NE
If it were me I would look at each RES before putting it into the pond just to make sure you don't have an unwanted GSF or HBG in the mix.

I got a few additional RES from a fish truck after my initial stocking and here is what was in the mix. eek The HBG/GSF never made it into my pond. Top two are RES, bottom two???

Small RES should look like this, the red on the ear tab might not be visible on RES under 3".
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#390978 - 10/29/14 09:48 AM Re: Stocking a new pond with RES, YP and SMB [Re: JamieE]
JamieE Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 166
Loc: NE Indiana
Thanks for the pics shorty! That will be helpful in helping me identify the fish correctly. Last thing I want is GSF in the pond!

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#390981 - 10/29/14 10:09 AM Re: Stocking a new pond with RES, YP and SMB [Re: JamieE]
esshup Offline
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I don't have a problem with Jones delivering fish. They aren't the least expensive around, but I've never had a wrong fish from them. I haven't had good luck when picking up fish from them in bags at their Ft. Wayne office, but good results when they are delivered on the truck.
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#390984 - 10/29/14 10:15 AM Re: Stocking a new pond with RES, YP and SMB [Re: JamieE]
Shorty Offline
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Registered: 07/28/05
Posts: 4231
Loc: Raymond, NE
I have more RES pictures posted in this thread.
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#390994 - 10/29/14 12:15 PM Re: Stocking a new pond with RES, YP and SMB [Re: JamieE]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 5261
Loc: SE Kansas
Jamie looking at 800 individuaal fish is going to be a chore and test of patience for both you and the delivery guy........not to mention additional stress on the fish.

My suggestion is to have clear container with water that the fish can be put in as the driver counts them out. Groups of 25 or 50 fish can be viewed. Then look for any fish that looks "different" and pull it out with a small aquarium net.

The quicker and least stressful the process for you, the fish, and the driver the better. Think about the process ahead of time will make things go better.


Edited by snrub (10/29/14 12:20 PM)
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#391018 - 10/29/14 07:14 PM Re: Stocking a new pond with RES, YP and SMB [Re: JamieE]
JamieE Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 166
Loc: NE Indiana
Got all 900 RES and the 50 SMB put into the pond. All the fish looked really healthy and had plenty of vigor. We looked at each individual fish to positively ID before putting them into the water. The driver from Jones was awesome and showed a lot of patience as we dug through and looked at each fish.

I was pretty pleased with the SMB that were delivered as they were all pretty consistent in size and looked really good. I've got a few pics to share of the Smallies. They were 5"+ with a few nearing 6"". We only measured one and he was 5 1/4" and appeared to be about the average size.

http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u392/JamieE38/cefa240c3f3032bc9f6f99d9e86aa38c.jpg
http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u392/JamieE38/47548bc1d46d3e5ee8d45e0c053aaae5.jpg
http://i1065.photobucket.com/albums/u392/JamieE38/5a64b263e0620166128fb2ced8e7d3f7.jpg


Edited by JamieE (10/29/14 07:17 PM)

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#391023 - 10/29/14 07:52 PM Re: Stocking a new pond with RES, YP and SMB [Re: JamieE]
Shorty Offline
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Registered: 07/28/05
Posts: 4231
Loc: Raymond, NE
Awesome! cool

I would not be surprised if your SMB are 10" next May.
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#391024 - 10/29/14 07:55 PM Re: Stocking a new pond with RES, YP and SMB [Re: JamieE]
Bill Cody Offline
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Those smallies will do well especially if they resume eating pellets. They should be 10"-12" by this time 2015. Can't wait to seem some of them. Nice YP and RES also.
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#391050 - 10/30/14 12:26 AM Re: Stocking a new pond with RES, YP and SMB [Re: JamieE]
CJBS2003 Offline
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RBS in my experience are not fall spawning. They spawn around the same time RES do. They are not overly fecund. Less than BG and PS, just a hair more than RES, but really prefer sand or rock to spawn on. If only mud/clay is present, they seem to not spawn as well.
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#391056 - 10/30/14 01:01 AM Re: Stocking a new pond with RES, YP and SMB [Re: JamieE]
teehjaeh57 Offline
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Registered: 01/22/08
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I know very little about RBS except what I've learned from you, Travis. Pond Boss Lepomis poster [remember that?] indicated that they commonly spawn in the Fall - that's where I picked up that tidbit. Again though, no experience. I would think a fall spawning sunfish would have lower percentage of recruitment due to lack of vegetation during winter and would be small, vulnerable, easy prey?
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#391077 - 10/30/14 07:09 AM Re: Stocking a new pond with RES, YP and SMB [Re: JamieE]
JamieE Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 166
Loc: NE Indiana
CJ, are RBS aggresive compared to BG? They sound like they'd be a cool addition to the pond and would provide another fish to catch and work well for additional forage.

Only thing is when we dug the pond I promised my wife I'd stay away from nibbling fish and she is holding me to this promise. Also its tough for me not to have BG in the pond as I really like to catch and eat them as I grew up doing so. BG are a great fish for kids as well and I'm afraid the pond may come up a little short without a BG similiar fish.

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#391082 - 10/30/14 08:56 AM Re: Stocking a new pond with RES, YP and SMB [Re: JamieE]
Bill Cody Offline
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Once you have 10"-14" yellow perch you will be content with not having bluegill. Then if you absolutely have to have some BG then you can stock several only male BG which will get really big and not bite swimmers. There has been discussion o the forum about using only male BG in ponds and there are three articles in back issues of PBoss magazine about using only male BG.
BEHEMOTH BLUEGILLS IN SMALL PONDS. In Part I, Cody, Condello and Baird provide the necessary details of how to accurately sex bluegills as the first step to produce trophies in small waters. Mar-Apr 2006.
GROWING BEHEMOTH MALE BLUEGILLS; Part II. Cody, Condello and Baird present info about size, growth, stocking densities, and choosing proper male bluegills. May-Jun 2006.
THE ART OF MANAGING BEHEMOTH MALE BLUEGILLS. Cody, Condello and Baird conclude their three part article about raising trophy male bluegills. Discussed are best size of ponds, natural foods, supplemental feeding, angling implications, females only, and creative ways to use male bluegills. A standard weight table for bluegill is included. Jul-Aug 2006.


Edited by Bill Cody (10/30/14 09:06 AM)
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#391083 - 10/30/14 09:14 AM Re: Stocking a new pond with RES, YP and SMB [Re: JamieE]
teehjaeh57 Offline
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Registered: 01/22/08
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Loc: Lincoln, NE
I need to review those articles - came out before I was around.
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#391093 - 10/30/14 11:23 AM Re: Stocking a new pond with RES, YP and SMB [Re: JamieE]
JamieE Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 166
Loc: NE Indiana
How does stocking male only BG work with the RES? Wont they interbreed and create hybrids?

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#391094 - 10/30/14 11:27 AM Re: Stocking a new pond with RES, YP and SMB [Re: JamieE]
Bill Cody Offline
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Yes - expect male BG to create hybrids when the male BG are stocked with mixed sex RES or probably other sunfish species. Those male BG will probably get pretty "frisky" and produce hybrids. Depending on the cross the offspring could have varying degrees of survival. Note that the hybrids may not produce viable offspring. In your case the BGXRES hybrids should not be a big concern for biting swimmers due to their lack of aggression and limited numbers. Biting sunfish primarily BG and GSF are normally only a problem when they are abundant and food (natural or pellets) is a limiting factor. So as long as you keep the panfish population in 'control' and well fed your swimmers should be very safe. Plus you have numerous local PB members that would be very happy to come to your pond and thin out your numbers of panfish wink smile smile .


Edited by Bill Cody (10/30/14 11:37 AM)
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#391095 - 10/30/14 11:36 AM Re: Stocking a new pond with RES, YP and SMB [Re: JamieE]
JamieE Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 166
Loc: NE Indiana
Bill, so there could be atleast some degree of risk in having hybrids reproducing more like a typical BG down the line several years? Maybe this is still some what of an unknown?

Also I was wondering about my perch numbers with the 420 stocked from Cecil...Is this enough stocked in the pond at this time or should I be getting some more in the pond yet this fall? I'd really like to be catching some nice perch next summer if possible, but not at the expense of putting an over amount of pressure the forage base.

I thought about adding some larger ones yet this fall, but Im not sure if my goal should be to have a large perch spawn this spring or not with only 50 smallies in the pond?


Edited by JamieE (10/30/14 11:41 AM)

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#391096 - 10/30/14 11:40 AM Re: Stocking a new pond with RES, YP and SMB [Re: JamieE]
Omaha Offline
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Originally Posted By: JamieE
Bill, so there could be atleast some degree of risk in having hybrids reproducing more like a typical BG down the line several years? Maybe this is still some what of an unknown?


Over time, I believe you're right. Just makes sense that a high fecundity species like bluegill would eventually out-compete all other panfish, though with proper management, it could be a long time before it was ever an issue.
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#391097 - 10/30/14 11:41 AM Re: Stocking a new pond with RES, YP and SMB [Re: JamieE]
Bill Cody Offline
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Ewest or others may be able to also advise. Supposedly when some of the hybrid crosses breed among themselves their eggs do not hatch or very rarely have very limited hatching. However offspring from the regular HBG (BGXGSF) are common. However I do not have any experience with hybrids reproducing with in your case the pure male BG. I'm not aware of any published or practical research on this topic. I have a local pond where mixed RES and male BG crossed to produced hybrids. I have not gone back yet to check the composition or balance of the fishery. Interestingly for your information, the pond also has SMB, YP and GSH in it. The owners used to swim in the pond but I have not inquired about them swimming since the hybrids were produced. It all would be good information for a PBoss mag article.


Edited by Bill Cody (10/30/14 11:50 AM)
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#391099 - 10/30/14 11:53 AM Re: Stocking a new pond with RES, YP and SMB [Re: JamieE]
JamieE Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 166
Loc: NE Indiana
I think maybe Ill take your advice and see how the perch are suiting us in the next couple of years before trying the Male only BG.

Am I at risk of over doing it with the perch if I stock more yet this fall? We have the 420 4-5" from Cecil we stocked about a month ago. I thought about making a trip up to shelby fish farm to get some larger perch for fish to catch and enjoy next year. Im just not sure if I do this if my YP spawn would be too much for the limited amount of predators in the pond. Also they may put a little too much added pressure on the forage base?

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#391103 - 10/30/14 12:22 PM Re: Stocking a new pond with RES, YP and SMB [Re: JamieE]
teehjaeh57 Offline
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You could stock more, but I don't believe it's necessary. I suspect a strong percentage of the YP will spawn in the Spring, you'll have plenty of YOY YP growing - you could just allow nature to take it's course.

I wouldn't worry about pressure on your forage base regardless of what you decide to do - a 4-5" YP isn't capable of eating a GSH 3"+ or your LCS or big male FHM. Are you pellet feeding yet? That will go a long way to help reduce forage base pressure down the road.

I have bred Male BG and Female RES [BRES] in a reproduction and grow out pond for several seasons with various degrees of success/failure. I do suspect stocking male BG into the fishery would lead to some hybridization with RES population. I have some of that occurring naturally in my main pond, and the F1 generation is a pretty fish, although I have yet to sample one that I would consider robust/healthy/thriving. Bear in mind the recruitment % of BRES hybrid is low, and of those survivors 97% are males - so that doesn't suggest an impending management issue if those F1 fish can even back cross.

I still think RBS would be a neat panfish to consider - Travis knows where to source them. If they truly spawn in fall [per Bob Lusk] I think recruitment in the presence of cool water species would be very low headed into Winter when SMB, YP and WE are still somewhat actively feeding unlike their warm water cousins. I think pods of 0.5-1" RBS would be vulnerable due to lack of vegetation cover to escape predation. It could be the perfect companion species for that very reason of Fall spawning and lower fecundity rendering management concerns mute.
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