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Fish Food #390366 10/22/14 10:16 PM
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The bass in this pond are already spooky. You are right that the bass are getting educated. If we can get the pond balanced the bass won't eat all of their fry. In a year or two their will be dumb 1 lbers to catch again. You can always go after the larger educated bass with a live 3" bluegill. We are culling the dumb bass that can't find enough to eat now and keeping the the smarter fish that are finding enough.


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Bill Cody #390395 10/23/14 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
There will be a dilemma. Be aware that in one acre the intense fishing and removal of the most aggressive individuals will result in fewer and fewer being caught as time passes. The remaining bass will be relatively hook smart. Some of those will be rarely if ever caught. You are selectively harvesting the dumbest fish leaving behind the fish less likely to bite. Your angling skills will have to become refined as time passes. Generally the bass angling catch per unit effort (CPUE)will not improve until new individuals are added.


Bill hit this right on the head!! I have a 1 acre pond with BG, RES, a few HSB and LMB. Most of the time the only way I can catch my larger bass now is with a live BG. They will get smart fast! Unless you starve them to death then maybe you can catch them! LOL... I have pretty much come to the conclusion that I will have fun catching my BG and if I get a bass or HSB every now and then I am happy! To many times I have tried to go to my pond to just bass fish and get very frustrated that I cant catch bass in my own dang pond!!!

I found though that it's not me, it's just them bass getting pretty darn smart on me...

RC


The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!
Fish Food #390396 10/23/14 09:59 AM
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I am afraid that I might reach that point before I catch out the 30 lb removal goal for this year. I have a pond near my home with walking trails etc. that was bird stocked with bluegill. It is the typical Bluegill pond with a 5" - 6" fish being a big one. Plenty of bait for bass fishing.

Around here all ponds have Bluegill whether you want them or not. Like I said they get bird stocked. If you are doing a pond with HSB or LMB Bluegill is the only fish prolific enough to keep up.


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Fish Food #390399 10/23/14 10:19 AM
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Bird stocked?

RAH #390402 10/23/14 10:22 AM
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Originally Posted By: RAH
Bird stocked?


Eggs transferred from one pond to another on birds feet.


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Fish Food #390408 10/23/14 10:51 AM
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I highly doubt that bird stocking accounts for the presence of the BG. I would lean toward the white bucket scenario currently being discussed in another thread, or hitchhikers from legitimate stocking efforts.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
Fish Food #390422 10/23/14 12:19 PM
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I agree.. Very much doubt bluegill will ever get in my new pond on the backs or feet of ducks, or other birds. Certainly the forage fish I stocked could have had a stray bluegill but I checked them very carefully. I suspect the goldfish also didn't come in the pond in the beak of a kingfisher or that a gracious raccoon carried a fish of one type or another from one pond to another without hurting it.

but on the other hand, if I hadn't seen the neighbor slip in with the white bucket, I would have sworn high and low after I, one day, drag a bullhead out of my pond, and then race to write a post here that this fish must have gotten into my pond via a great blue heron with a case of the stomach flu or a bald eagle flew overhead and while he was switching the fish from one talon to the other he dropped it by mistake.

I do wonder with some of the ponds that have been there 50 years or longer how many unknown human visitors came along and what they thought when 50 or more years ago they threw a worm in and low and behold there were bluegill in there?

Fish Food #390448 10/23/14 06:26 PM
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So we have a stocked catfish pond fed by an underground spring, well off the road with a gated entrance. The owner is begging people to catch bluegill because they are eating a lot of the food intended for his catfish. Would any sane person bucket stock this pond with bluegill? I know of several of these in case you were wondering. Most people I know that catch bluegill eat them or throw them back. I know that in every case bird stocking is not the case but there is enough evidence to entertain the possibility.

http://www.researchgate.net/post/Is_ther...ody_to_an_other


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Fish Food #390451 10/23/14 06:55 PM
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Sanity is not a prerequisite for bucket stocking....just ask canyoncreek. In addition, high water events account for a great many inadvertent stockings. Plus, how did the catfish get in there? Was each and every fish carefully examined before being turned into the pond, in order to guarantee species?

Or was the bag/bucket of fish just dumped into the water??

I have a hard time believing that a fertilized BG egg could attach itself to a bird's foot, survive the trip to a new pond without drying out, be deposited in a viable state, AND still continue developing and eventually hatch, without the male BG being there to fan water/O2 over the egg?


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
Fish Food #390452 10/23/14 07:27 PM
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"The active stocking of juvenile fish by kingfisher species. On several occasions I observed kingfishers dropping fish in isolated water bodies in Southern Brazil. Although this contribution is not very scientific, it may be worth of reflecting…."

You underestimate mother nature.


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Fish Food #390453 10/23/14 07:35 PM
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Not at all. Kingfishers dropping a live specimen is worlds different from an egg sticking to a duck's foot.

That was your definition of bird stocking in an earlier post, was it not?


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
Fish Food #390456 10/23/14 08:15 PM
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You are correct. Its some crazy guy randomly bucket stocking ponds all over the country.

End of discussion!


Give a man a gun and he can rob a bank, Give a man a bank and he can rob the world.
Fish Food #390457 10/23/14 08:17 PM
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He says that he observed...... That's not evidence. And, I'm not one to underestimate Mama Nature.

Read Sparkplugs 3rd paragraph. And that's not even 1/2 of the requirements for viability.

About 10 years ago, this question came up on this Forum. So I tried it. Since I couldn't get my hands on a wild duck during BG spawning season, I bought a plain white duck at the local flea market. I euthanized(killed) it and cut the feet off. I had a pretty active BG nesting area. So I waded out and waited for the water to clear. That took awhile. Then I carefully stuck the duck foot into and around the eggs. Nada! I tried it on another nest with the same results. Then I soaked the foot for awhile and tried again with the same results. The gelatonous eggs didn't adhere. Actually, when I carefully submerged the foot, the eggs kinda moved away from the intrusion.

Now, I realize that my attempt is not scientific experimenting and/or even meets proper sampling criteria. It would have to be done thousands of times and each attempt logged. I am not aware of any scientific study of the situation. And, at that time I looked.

I'm not going to say that it can't be done. But I see no way that it can be cause of all or even a tiny fraction of the bird/fish eggs reports. I will say that I'll bet a dollar to a doughnut that no person can make it stick, transport it get a successful hatch and scientifically record it. Until that happens, I'll just say BS.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Fish Food #390458 10/23/14 08:26 PM
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Back on topic. There is a hill on the north side of the pond that runs 2/3rds the length of the pond. Its about 75 feet away from the pond. Yesterday I walked the hill and saw no bass feeding in the shallows on the northern edge of the pond. I fished for awhile and didn't get a bite. This morning I did the same with the same result. I went next door and talked to a friend for a few hours then came back. This time walking the hill I saw one bass actively feeding on the surface and another cruising. I fished for awhile and caught one and didn't get the hook set on the second one. I am at a whopping 10% of my goal. lol


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Originally Posted By: Dave Davidson1
He says that he observed...... That's not evidence. And, I'm not one to underestimate Mama Nature.

Read Sparkplugs 3rd paragraph. And that's not even 1/2 of the requirements for viability.

About 10 years ago, this question came up on this Forum. So I tried it. Since I couldn't get my hands on a wild duck during BG spawning season, I bought a plain white duck at the local flea market. I euthanized(killed) it and cut the feet off. I had a pretty active BG nesting area. So I waded out and waited for the water to clear. That took awhile. Then I carefully stuck the duck foot into and around the eggs. Nada! I tried it on another nest with the same results. Then I soaked the foot for awhile and tried again with the same results. The gelatonous eggs didn't adhere. Actually, when I carefully submerged the foot, the eggs kinda moved away from the intrusion.

Now, I realize that my attempt is not scientific experimenting and/or even meets proper sampling criteria. It would have to be done thousands of times and each attempt logged. I am not aware of any scientific study of the situation. And, at that time I looked.

I'm not going to say that it can't be done. But I see no way that it can be cause of all or even a tiny fraction of the bird/fish eggs reports. I will say that I'll bet a dollar to a doughnut that no person can make it stick, transport it get a successful hatch and scientifically record it. Until that happens, I'll just say BS.


See post below

Last edited by Fish Food; 10/23/14 09:18 PM.

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Fish Food #390462 10/23/14 08:48 PM
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FF, this is PondBoss. The premier fish/ponds related forum on the net. It's not about taking sides, it's about relaying factual information as best we can. I'm sorry you feel slighted, but it isn't personal I assure you. Facts are preferred, but I've always found theories to be welcome here, so long as they are expressed as such.

Making room for opposing theories, and being tolerant of such, is par for the course also.

And hijacking is a part of forum life here. Oftentimes, much can be learned from a thread wandering off topic.

Stick around, share, and learn. That's what we're all here for.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
Fish Food #390463 10/23/14 09:00 PM
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I confess I am the crazy random bucket stocking guy. Whatever you do DO NOT give me your ponds address.

Seriously I have learned a lot already and bring a different perspective on fish nutrition to the table.


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Fish Food #390464 10/23/14 09:16 PM
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I simply can't understand why every body of water in Alabama save one that I have fished has Bluegill. The one body is a drainage lake and I didn't see any fish walking the bank and didn't get a bite using live red worms. I guess I underestimate mans desire to bucket stock???


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Fish Food #390469 10/24/14 05:56 AM
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I think it happens 2 ways. Bucket stocking certainly occurs. There is just something lacking when we see a hole of water without fish. There are also rain events with fish escaping downstream or from creeks overflowing their banks.

We've seen pictures of tornados raining fish that were sucked up out of a body of water but I'll bet that those fish were in no shape to live.

An awful lot of hatcheries aren't careful segregating their fish. Gambusia minnows are in an awful lot of South East Texas ponds that were supposedly never stocked with them. In one case that I'm personally aware of, the owner talked to the fish seller who admitted that his forage ponds were mixed with both fatheads and and a "few" gambusia. We all know that we should carefully eyeball every fish that we stock but mistakes occur.

Green sunfish show up in ponds that are supposedly stocked with only bluegills. That has to be a hatchery mistake due to carelessness. Or possibly us buying both HBG and BG or CNBG and winding up with unintended consequences.

In my case I stocked my latest pond with BG and fatheads. I waited a year to add 3 inch LMB. Then a couple of months later I was seeing 12 to 13 inch bass. Ain't no way and I know who helped me but he denied it.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
Fish Food #390470 10/24/14 05:58 AM
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Can fish be moved by birds - yes. The question is not if but how frequently and how likely that a fish species entered a body of water by this means. I personally saw a GBH, that I surprised, fly off with a catfish, but I cannot tell you if it was in its mouth or speared. Could the bird have dropped it accidentally in another body of water? Sure it could, but how often would that happen. If someone could reliably document a bird purposefully stocking another body of water, I think you could publish your findings in the most premier scientific journals on the planet (Science or Nature). It would seem to me to have very weak evolutionary pressure to evolve such a behavior. I think you could get a Nature or National geogrphic film crew to stake out your location if they believe this behavior is occurring.

Fish Food #390472 10/24/14 06:43 AM
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I think a lot of people underestimate the capability of a high water event for stocking fish. That "ditch" that runs into one end of the pond becomes a highway when a 100 yr rain occurs.

I'm also in agreement with Dave on the hatchery issue. Mix ups and unintended hitchhikers are fairly common occurrences. The careless, traveling fishtruck scenario appears to account for the majority of those. Buy your fish from a reputable source, and hand sort as you stock.

For proof that bucket stocking occurs, we need look no further than canyoncreek's thread. He himself stated that had he not discovered the interloper, he would've been inclined to go with the bird delivery explanation when he caught a bullhead that he never stocked.
Unless we spend 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, 365 days a year standing in front of our ponds, how do we know that bucket stocking hasn't happened? We may think our ponds are secure, but in reality we probably don't know that for a fact.

I have no doubt that a bird can drop a fish while in flight. But in the scenario we are discussing here, ( ponds full of smaller bluegills), it needs to happen at least twice. Once with a male, and another time with a female BG. And both fish need to survive, and reproduce.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
sprkplug #390473 10/24/14 07:19 AM
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Originally Posted By: sprkplug
I think a lot of people underestimate the capability of a high water event for stocking fish. That "ditch" that runs into one end of the pond becomes a highway when a 100 yr rain occurs.


And it takes very little water for a fish to successfully travel from one body of water to another. All a fish needs is the smallest of trickles.

Omaha #390502 10/24/14 01:14 PM
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I think that I might be able to help at least some with the Aquarium fish bucket stockers. Our fish food made solely for fish in the home aquarium has been on the market for a little over 3 months. It has become very popular at this point. I am not saying this to brag and I am not getting rich (I have received $150 for my efforts because I was in a financial bind). I say all of that to say it gives us a platform to promote responsible fish keeping. If you are moving or don't want to keep this species anymore take them back to the store where you bought them.


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Fish Food #390506 10/24/14 01:38 PM
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I agree with you FF. The trouble starts when folks want an aquarium with "native" fish. They most likely secure these from local waters rather than purchase them from a pet store....hence the bullhead in canyoncreek's story.

Time comes when they don't want the fish anymore......just release them back into the closest BOW. I would imagine that the thought process goes something along the lines of "these fish came from the creek down the road, so it shouldn't hurt to put them into the neighbor's pond"

Yeah. Right.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
Fish Food #390508 10/24/14 01:56 PM
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I would never deny almost anything is possible, but "bird stocking" is about the MOST improbable!!! IF anyone actually observed a Kingfisher dropping a "live" species, the chances of the fish survival is virtually nill as the fish would be highly stressed (and probably suffocated and dried) from a "flight", and almost unquestionably injured from the original capture. It would die in hours from fungus, if not within minutes from the other stressors.

The MOST likely cause (absent human stocking), are simple rain events. Fish fry can swim for miles in under 1/4" of water. Any body of water that does not get runoff is still "connected" to other waters during a rain event. Put together 2 or more frequent events, a puddle here and there during drier periods, and fish fry could migrate some vast distances!



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