Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations The testing will begin today.

I'm hitting the local "fish truck" (Farleys Arkansas Pond Stockers) to buy 100 of their "Coppernose Bluegills" this afternoon. They are going in a 4' sq. cage and we'll see how they fare over the winter. I'll see if I can get the largest ones that they have.

I'll ask them if they are pure florida CNBG, or a hybrid. If they know, I'll post their answer back here. I also have to ask if they are pellet trained or not, and if so, if they know what food they were fed.

I'll also ask how long they have been on the truck.

Anything else you pondmeisters would like to know?

If possible, I would like to know if their HBG are created using their "CNBG" as breeding stock.

Are you going to be covertly video recording the whole thing?

I'd like to know if Jimmy Hoffa is on the truck somewhere....

Great project esshup. If they live for you (and are actually Coppernose), the hundred I recently put in my sediment pond from Dunn's that are advertised as Coppernose should be ok too.

They looked like nice, healthy 1-3" (mostly 2") fish (this time, not so much last time but that is another story). I also got 200 RES from them to put in the same pond (they were free replacements for the crappy ones I got from them last time).

Let us know how it works out, and I will do the same. Fish were too small for my untrained eyes to tell they were CNBG or regular BG, but as they grow will try to catch some and take pictures.

Glad you are doing this and reporting the results.

Well, the best laid plans of mice and men got scrubbed today.

They had what they called CNBG on the truck, the driver didn't know if they were pure or hybrid. BUT, the biggest fish in the tank was 1/2" long (and I'm being generous there). I have 1/4" mesh in the cage that I was going to put them in, and they would have just swam right out. The driver was honest and said he had no idea why they even put them on the truck, and that 100 fish he could hold in one hand and he was right. He said that the LMB in the tank in the truck could have a field day eating the CNBG if they were stocked in the pond together, he joked that even the FHM that he had could eat 'em.

I inquired about RES, they weren't pellet trained, and the biggest one was about 1" in length.

So, since that was the last delivery of the year up here, I'll pre-order them next year and see if I can get some that are 3" long or so.

Tony, as far as he knew, the HBG were not made using the CNBG stock. He said that stocking HBG with LMB wouldn't result in enough offspring for the LMB.

As far as he knew I was just another pond owner.

Thanks for the info Scott!

1/2" long????? They could've been anything!

I'll be in AR in a week or two and could easily snag some CNBG under 6"...I'm fairly sure that 2 week pre-entry permit can be had in a couple days now.

IIRC...that cross is called the Georgia Giant...or similar names now.

Rex, I'd be happy with 3" fish! Just something to throw in a cage to over winter to see if they'd live. I was hoping to get some off of the truck, so I could see if they really do survive up here or they'd go belly up over the winter.

They looked like BG, but at that small of a size I don't know how to tell (or if you can) tell CNBG from Northern BG.

I can't believe they put ones that small on the truck. He said this spring he was selling out before he hit all his stops, and he'd have between 6,000 and 8,000 BG on the truck. That doesn't include HBG or RES.

So I have to ask. Is there a approximate size that makes BG/CNBG/HBG have enough visual characteristics to make then identifiable?

Would 2 to 3 inches be enough?

I'm not sure! I was planning on growing them out until I could tell, which I'm assuming would be 6"-7" or so from the pictures that I've seen here. If there is a significant mortality over the winter, then I'd know for sure. I have some Condello strain BG in a cage now, and I could use those as a control.

HBG are identifiable by three inches, usually by two. Not sure when CNBG begin to differentiate from northerns?

Ok, fair enough. I'm still culling out of my brood pond, and I'm just not seeing any, what I think are, CNBG/GSF hybrids. I'll take some pics next week, and see what y'all think. The YOY CNBG look to be around 3".

I'll post this on new thread, but I'm not sure the GSF and CNBG even crossed.

As always, thanks guys.

I can tell HBG apart by 1". Now telling northern and CN BG apart, to be highly confident I would say 3"-4" in length. I doubt many of the "CNBG" being sold by most fish farms are pure CNBG anyway. They may very well be a high percentage of CNBG, but unlikely to be pure.

I can generally tell HBG from other lepomis by 1/2" to 3/4". If the eye is carefully examined, there is a particularly malevolent gleam present that is easily distinguishable from the earnest, innocent visage of the unenhanced bream. Also, I've noticed that I become faintly nauseated when examining the HBG for more than a few minutes. I think they may release some type of perverse pheromone, but it could just be a psychological effect.

I agree CJ. The test was to accomplish 2 things:

To see if the "Coppernose Bluegills" sold really were CNBG or some hybrid (would have to wait until they matured to see for sure) and if the "Coppernose Bluegills" that were sold would even survive up here. If they would survive, I wanted to know what percentage. I also wanted to see (if any) of the CNBG parents physical characteristics carried over to the adults if they would survive the winters here.

With fish that small, and not knowing for sure how many would stay in the cage, I wasn't willing to risk $69 on literally a cupped double handful of fish. ($0.69 each) If they would have been big enough to stay in the cage, they'd already be swimming in it.

You've been around horses that could sense fear in an unexperienced rider? Same thing with HBG. It's a defense mechanism, designed to discourage those with less than honorable intentions. Not pointing fingers or anything.

I wish I was good enough to tell HBG from northerns at the 1" stage.

Maybe I need better glasses.

The guy I bought my HSB from today sells BG. He just calls them BG, but a friend bought some a few years back in the 3-4" range and they were certainly a high percentage CNBG. No signs of any of them showing up in the fishery, but they could have all become LMB food...

This is one of my CNBG that were originally stocked from Florida CNBG. Occasional, and very light tail tipping.


This is one of my Texas based OTS CNBG. White tipping on the anal and tail fin are very distinct, and on all of these I have caught.

Those fish are spectacular, Al. Well done!!

These differences in the CNBG brings to mind that whole mystacalis (peninsular Florida) vs, purpurascens (everywhere else) coppernose debate.

Thanks Tony. The top fish is an example of one of mine that I want to age. I want to find out if there's anything left in him, because his length should have allowed him to carry more weight than he did when this pic was taken.

I am going to jump in here if OK with Tony and Al?
Being close friend and neighbor with Al, we have shared experience and thoughts about our CNBG.

IIRC, Al’s first photo was from a source that was caught and transported from one location in Florida. My information may be out of date but may still be relevant since I believe this strain of CNBG was stocked a number of years ago.
Correct me if I am wrong Al!

The bottom photo is an OTS CNBG and the identical strain of my OTS CNBG pictured below. I do not know all of Overton’s proprietary brood stock source, but since I participated in early selection of his brood stock, I do know they were transported from two separate areas in Florida.
I believe that a third “pure” Florida CNBG has been added to the group.

I follow Overton’s selection brood stock characteristics by culling all CNBG that do not meet Todd’s selection.



Difference in my photo and Al’s is primarily due to his pond water being much clearer than mine - our OTC CNBG fish are “brothers”.

IMO, the strong characteristics of the OTS CNBG traits are by brood stock selection.
Beautiful fish Al!
George

George, you are correct. The first CNBG is what I would call a legacy stocking, since they came from Bob Waldrop's brood stock. The initial stocking was 14 years ago.

The OTS strain have not been in my ponds long enough to size match them to the legacy Florida based CNBG. My WAG is that the OTS will ultimately carry more weight per inch than the legacy CNBG. They are a much taller fish, and have that pie plate look that I'm after.

Regional adaptation is a cool subject. esshup, take some of mine home with you (Florida, TX, or both) if you can't get a good CNBG source before February. At a dollar an inch, take all you want.

Is that the going rate for bluegill fillets? I'd have to be like some of the over the road truckers. A truck with 2 trailers behind it.