Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Water chemistry Fastest way to change PH

I'm thinking about trying some alum in my pond to clear up a recent muddy water problem I have because of my pond expansion project. The water is full of clay particles so visibility is way down and fish won't feed. I understand that if alum is to work well it needs a neutral to high PH. My PH is around 6.0 and my alkalinity is about 40. What's the quickest and/or cheapest way to increase PH without killing the fish. Also, any wisdom on using the alum? I've read what I can find on this forum about this subject and I'm having trouble putting 2 and 2 together.

BZ read this it should help.

http://srac.tamu.edu/tmppdfs/381285-460f...74dc8a1365b7572

Hydrated lime is the fastest way to raise PH in a temporary method. Its use is described in the link.

Eric.....this link is on Clay Turbidity and use of Alum.

From the link above

Alum
makes water more acidic. In
ponds with low alkalinity (less
than 20 mg/L as CaCO3) it can
reduce water pH to levels that
may affect fish growth and survival.
In low alkalinity ponds, add
1/2 part hydrated lime for every
part of alum applied in order to
maintain proper pH.

Includes other good practical advice - like wear a mask.

Sorry Eric, I didn't read all of the above.

I edited this to correct mistakes:
Thanks guys. I have ready many places that one should "never" apply hydrated lime to a pond with fish. I would guess that guidance applies when all you want to do is change PH. I assume the reason for the hydrated lime when using alum is that you need something that will counteract the immedieate drop in PH that the alum will cause. I still have several questions. How does one apply the lime? Should it be at the same time? Do you dump in the lime and then immediately after dump in the lime? Can you mix the two and apply together? Also, is the affect of the alum cumulative. For instance if I determine I need 200 pounds of "alum" can I do 20 pounds at a time and wait several days in between applications. I would think each pound of "alum" would do what it's going to do whether applied all at once or over time. So just like the jar test, can I put a little in the pond and see how it works and then several days later add more and repeat this process until I get the clarity I want? thanks for any help

The effect of both Alum and hydrated lime on ph is short term (a week +-). There are several ways to apply the fix. Bob posted one. I prefer doing both at the same time (no room for a ph mistake that way).

Ewest, so what do you mean by applying both at the same time. Do you mix them or just put one in after the other in the same place?

You can do either. It depends on the situation i.e. size of the pond and mixing methods. The trick is not to wait until the ph starts dropping more than a little. Use a mask.

I'v going to give it another week and see what happens before I do anything drastic. My fish started lightly feeding two days ago. Now they are feeding pretty hard just like before the digging. We'll see what another week brings. I put about 1500 lbs of ag lime spread all around the pond to about 20 feet out from shore. Tomorrow I'll take some out in the boat and spread in the areas I could not reach with spreader. I understand as lime neutralizes PH it will also help de-ionize the silt in the pond and help it settle. If I do try the alum I'll let you all know how it works.

i used alum and hdl to clear an arce pond up. it worked great and has yet to cloud back up. i don't know if the alum being small bb's type help keep it clean. like ewest said , 2 to 1 is the way to go. i use a 20 gal drum and a drywall mud mixer. just a half inch drill with a mixing bit.i checked the ph level before we started. put 5 gal buckets in a boat with a trolling motor and poured it slowly right at the motor. that helped spend it nice. just keep checking ph 3 or 4 times while doing it and the ph never really changed. bonus it kills the algea to.

Ken, do you have fish in the pond? If so did they survive? I wonder what killed the algae. From what I understand the alum will kill the algae but only if you let the PH go wild. When you say you mix the alum and HDL together, you mean like in the same barrel. I would think that would neutralize the alum or something.

lol yes. way to many 3" to 5" BG's. i put in 1 20" n. pike to be there friend. dam stripers are slacking. i think they perfer the YP and GS. sunday i caught a LMB just shy of 5 lbs. nice big fat belly and bunch of 2 to 3 lbs. anything under 12" eats or pitch. my buddy caught a CC about 9 lbs , took him 10 minutes to get him in on LT. we both caught alot of fish. you name it in pond fish i have it , except crappie. i like fishing in her because you never know what you might catch. 8 lb striper alum won't kill algae. HDL when applied to algae in the smallest amount raises the PH in the algae way high and it dies NOW. i use 25 lbs in an acre pond just on the edges 3 or 4 ft out. (thats $3 for a algae free pond for the year) you never get rid of all of it , the trick is to keep it under control. wear a mask , grab a hand full and broad cast a nice spray along bank. best late in evening with no wind. never use when fish are on there beds , it will kill eggs. during the year where you see it getting alot in a spot , just mix up the bottom muck with a paddle and poof gone. now i use my 100 lb plus shepard to do it for me. he loves the aqamax and i just throw some by the bank in the water 3 ft. out and he is mixing the muck up tropping around eating the food. i'm in a wheelchair now form a bad motorcycle accident 3 yrs ago , i drive around the pond and we take care of things. he's happy and i'm happy. i only have to do it 3 or 4 times a year. been doing it for 5 or 6 years now. my pond is the nicest looking pond around. i also keep my newtrient(my spelling sucks) loads down best i can. i try to let the grass 10' from the pond grow about a foot or so to try and catch the leafs. it breaks my heart , i can't take care of her how i would like. alum crashes PH , HDL raises it. mixing 2 to 1 in the barrel , then pour it in 5 gal buckets. get small boat with trolling motor and pour slowly in the wash. helps to have a person making the next batch. i also turn the aireation system on to , that helps even more to get it everywhere. i bought alum size of BB's (you can buy it in a liquid) that did not mix to a complete liquid. i beleive some of the BB's are still on the bottom and when the fish stur the water , it atacks the clay. pond has been clear (24")for 2 years now. gets a little cloudy when they spawn , then clears up. i think thats where the BB's help. the idea is to bring the PH nuteral when they are mixed. test PH couple places before you start , keep checking it till your done. i did it in the evening. in the morning if there was a problem with the PH , i could correct it. i have tons of YBG's 1" to 2" everywhere and 1,000's of FHM's. very few small LMB , bugs on the pond bottom everywhere , some real strange looking creatures lol. Mr. Cody was suppose to write some articles on bugs in your pond water , i don't know if he even did? . i spoke to 2 chemical engineers at plants that make HDL and both said they see no problem now or in the future of using HDL for what i'm using it for. the least you use the better. i would never use copper , it only builds up and up. they sell a product that kills algae instintly , it's like $80 for 5 gal bucket. would love to know whats in it , HDL and whatever , maybe? i know when i talked to the engineers about what i was doing they didn't know it killed algae and where very interested. edit: oh my God i wrote a book.

Ken, lots of good info, thanks. I am still looking for a source for the alum. I got two farm stores looking for it and neither has found it in bulk yet. My pond is a little bit clearer now after two weeks from the digging. Visibility is maybe 4 inches compared to zero two weeks ago. The fish don't seem to mind anymore they are feeding like crazy. I know they can't see as well though since you can't catch fish very well on rod and reel. I may try your method of mixing alum and HDL in a barrel. Sorry to hear about the accident laying you up. That's got to be tough. I hope you'll get better and be able to walk again.