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Long-time lurker, first-time poster here.

Here's my pond, in east Athens GA. I figure its about half-acre, teardrop shape, about 350 x 100 feet at it's widest/longest points.

Hope the pic displays... always an adventure





It's another 75-100 feet from the back of my house





Maybe 5 feet deep at the dam, and tapers to the narrow end. Has a handful of fish in it which have been lotsa fun to catch. But, while "harvesting" the water lilies from around the shore line, I notice I'm about ankle deep in muck.





So, I am considering aeration. Do you think the RC51 system I see so much on here would be sufficient/recommended? And do I need more than one diffuser.

Thanks.

Mark

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Manually harvesting those 'lily' type plants will get 'old' pretty fast as you get older. I would kill them with an appropriate herbicide and replant some dwarf hardy hybrid lilies which will spread slow, grow shallow and will likely never or very rarely need to be thinned out. Aeration with RC51 will mix that deeper basin since it is relatively shallow (5-6ft). Note RC went to a different style air compressor that works better for his situation. Explore and shop for using a different air compressor with higher pressure rating at 5-6ft deep situations. Good ones are available on the web and places like ebay. Your pond is shallow and would likely not need to be mixed 24/7, however the numerous trees and lack of wind exposure does require longer mixing each day to maintain good DO concentrations on the bottom. Clear water helps produce oxygen deeper in the water. What is the average water transparency during summer?

Last edited by Bill Cody; 09/27/14 02:34 PM.

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UPG, welcome to the posting bunch. Looks like ya got your hands full with the Lilies, Bills advice should be seriously considered. He set me up with some hybrid Lilies and they are just great.
The ankle deep muck is more than likely caused by the heavy amount of trees surrounding your pond. Aeration should help with that and you could research adding bacteria. Bob
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If you can afford it a "dip" around the pond with a large excavator as far as it can reach out would get rid of two problems at once: the lilies and a substantial amount of muck. Then you could keep the muck at bay with the aeration.

IMHO removing deep muck with aeration and bacteria is overrated. Keeping it at bay with aeration does work for sure though.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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UPG welcome to the forum! I see you have excellent taste in beverages - instant credibility with me! wink

If you can outline your goals for the pond, it would help us provide the best advice moving forward. If you are looking for minimum commitment to simply manage the existing fish in your somewhat shallow pond, aeration would be helpful and treating existing lilies and replanting better cultivars per Cody and others' direction.

If you want to commit to creating a great fishery, draining and dredging would be a consideration. We routinely advise to nuke and restart so you can create conditions necessary to establish and maintain an excellent fishery and do things the right way with a fresh start. For a smaller BOW like yours this process could be fairly inexpensive - say $1-$3k. I did this on a .4 AC pond at my farm and it cost $700 for excavator and dozer work.

Let us know your goals, and we can help direct you. Good to have you with us on the forum!



Many men go fishing all of their lives without knowing that it is not fish they are after. ~ Henry David Thoreau

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Thanks for the warm welcome.

Please don't say the "D" word. I can't get an excavator back there (there's a house in the way) plus, I'm pretty sure that Dave Ramsey would squeal. It's obvious he never owned a pond. Let's just say I have more time than money.

I'm about 90% on a new standpipe cover. Last Easter Sunday, my neighbor and I spent the afternoon unplugging the old one, as the spring rains had us flooded for about a month. But we tore it up pretty good getting it to flow. The new cover will add almost a foot to the water level, and should keep it pretty constant, due to the diagonal opening and heavy bar grating. So, a lot of fresh water is coming soon.

My goals are fairly simple:

1. work on water clarity, keep it from getting worse. The bottom is visible to about five feet out, but things get kinda cloudy after that. I know nothing about ponds, but I do know this one's been neglected.

2. at least stem the muck problem - if I cant turn it around. That's some stinkin slick stuff, and once you're in it it's hard to get out. LOL. Releases all kinds of bubbles of rotten egg funk. Could probably get a Bobcat back there to dip in around the good, flat part of the shoreline, but would have to haul away in a dump trailer. It's hard to get a pickup down there. Pretty sure a dump truck is a no go.

3. Have a floating dock in by spring. At that five-foot level, it's about hip deep, so I'm thinking one of those DIY jobs with plastic drums ... something I can build myself once I've gotten all the parts together.

4. Bout the only thing on my wish-list, as far as fish go, is to do no harm. We catch-and-release anyway, so allowing them to thrive is a priority. Maybe stock some red minnows or fat heads later for mosquito control?

Of course, all of that is subject to change, due to time and money issues. But I love my little pond, and feel like it could use some help along the way.

Appreciate the insight,

Mark

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I'm no expert on aeration, but can say that in my 3 acre pond I'm using three double 9" diffusers so I would think one 9" for a half acre would suffice.

You might reconsider on the catch and release policy because likely some judicious removal of some numbers of one type fish often improves the over all fishery. A pond can only hold so much biomass and often one type will gain advantage and limit other desirable species. Careful removal of some select fish can improve what is left. Something to think about.


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Make sure the lily description says dwarf or small variety. There are medium and larger varieties not suited for your pond. A path through the trees can always be created to get equipment back to the pond.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 09/27/14 02:36 PM.

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UPG hey whats up? Welcome to the PBF! Looks like your working hard that's for sure!

Your pond would not to do bad with my RC51 system I think. Like Bill says it is small enough and shallow enough to handle it. It's a great little budget system for guys just starting out! I ran my Eco7 pump for 4 years 10 hours a night before it started to not push very well in 8 feet or water at that point it still worked in 6 feet though. P.M me if you want some more info but I think most of it is already on this site.

So you would be fine at first I think, the reason I changed was this.

My pond can go from 6 or so feet to almost 10 feet depending on how much rain we get. In the end my Eco7 pump just was not cutting it, and after 4 years as you could imagine I was starting to get some pretty nice fish at that point! My biomass was a lot bigger and I was feeding my fish so to be safe I went to a stronger better pump. I now have a GAST 0523 1/3 hp pump which is awesome and is very strong and works at any depth I will have in my pond so I now have no worries with this new pump. Mr. Cody was kind enough to get me a few things I needed for the pump and it's been great! However I think it would be a bit of overkill for you at this point. Like Bill said consider all options look around, if you can get a 1/4 hp GAST or Thomas pump for 50 to 75 dollars more you may want to go that route, but the Eco7 will work in your situation that I have no doubt! I think you could get by with 1 or 2 fusers depending on how much water you want to move. They are not that expensive so I would go with 2 that way if 1 started to get clogged up or something you would still have good air coming out of the other one until you could get it fixed.

Hey Good Luck and keep us posted as to what you do.

RC


Last edited by RC51; 09/29/14 09:06 AM.

The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!
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If you use two diffusers with the Eco7 it will struggle to make two decent sized boils. For two diffusers you would be better to use a different compressor.


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Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
If you use two diffusers with the Eco7 it will struggle to make two decent sized boils. For two diffusers you would be better to use a different compressor.


Hmmm I'm gonna leave this one alone! smile

RC


The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!
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Originally Posted By: RC51
Originally Posted By: Bill Cody
If you use two diffusers with the Eco7 it will struggle to make two decent sized boils. For two diffusers you would be better to use a different compressor.


Hmmm I'm gonna leave this one alone! smile

RC


RC, wasn't your experience with the Eco7 hit and miss? One worked well, the other not so well?


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Yes that is true! My first one worked with 3, 9 inch fusers in 8 feet of water.

The one I got from Mr. Ted only worked with 2 fusers in 6 to 7 feet of water.

So you are taking a chance there, but I never had any issues with 2 fusers at 6 feet. Although I was not using Vertex fusers which do from what I understand do have quite a few more smaller slits then the diffuser express fusers I been using and am still using today with my GAST pump. They are fine bubble fusers just dont have as many small slits as the vertex which in turn I think take a bit more push to get them to boil. That's what I have seen anyway.

Ted also sent me some vertex fusers I never got a chance to test them though as the pump he sent me barely worked with the 2 express fusers so I knew it wouldn't work with the vertex. Others on this site have claimed they used the Eco7 in 10 foot of water? I wish I would have had my first pump to test on the vertex fusers just to see what would have happened. It would seem I may have gotten a GREAT pump for my money! As Bill says buyer beware those Eco7 pumps are cheaper but you may be taking a chance on the pump. I would think he would be fine in 6 foot of water though with 2 of the express fusers or 1 vertex fuser. Bottom line is, it's what he can afford at this point. Like myself I was strapped for money and just bought the land and pond I had so I went with what I could afford. It worked for me at the time, but like I said once you start to get more and more invested in your pond it felt real GOOD to upgrade my pump knowing it could do the job no matter what!!

RC

Last edited by RC51; 09/30/14 07:57 AM.

The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!
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9" Vertex diffuser will work with 0.5 CFM.


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Actually many of the rubber membrane diffusers will work with very little air volume for example 0.1 or less cfm providing the psi is adequate to force air out at a depth. HOWEVER we need to define what we mean by 'work'. Just because a diffuser is producing a few or several small bubbles per second does not mean it is adequately mixing a volume of water. My windmill during a slow 4-6mph wind will produce a scant number of bubbles that results in little if any water upwelling. For a diffuser to be working to mix a water column it should be producing several thousand or 100,000 thousand bubbles per second not just several or a few hundred bubbles per second. The Basic Aeration Rule is: the more bubbles produced and the smaller the bubbles the more water that is moved.

There was aeration discussion on this forum recently that discovered (Ted Lea) the Vertex diffuser had a unique or special built-in valve that allowed the air to be balanced or evenly spread among paired or multiple diffusers so each diffuser received equal amounts of air allowing the entire multiple diffuser head to produce an even bubble pattern. To operate this special valve each Vertex diffuser required at least 0.5cfm.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 09/30/14 04:20 PM.

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Urban Guy bet you didn't know you were going to have so many options once you asked this question hey??? smile smile With your pond only being 5 feet or so and you have to have your fusers off the bottom at lest 4 to 6 inches don't make this to hard for yourself. My setup will work in your pond just fine for what you want! IMO at 5 feet anything else is overkill. Have fun with it and let us know how it goes.

RC


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5' deep. I forgot that Urban Pond Guy. Two diffusers would definitely be better.

The deeper the diffuser, the more expansion from the bubbles and thus more water flow. So with such shallow depth, another diffuser would be beneficial to get more water flow. That is the whole idea of the process, to get water from the bottom of the pond flowing to the top.

Diffusers are pretty reasonable. It is the sinking hose that is the killer to the budget.

Last edited by snrub; 09/30/14 03:04 PM.

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Urban pond guy never told us what the depths of his water clarity are. Secchi disk depth readings would be very informative. If light can reach the bottom, oxygen will be produced on the bottom and a pond does not need artificial mixing.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 09/30/14 04:17 PM.

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Good point Bill! If he can see to the bottom of his pond Having air for more D.O may not be as big of a deal as say having the air to help hold back/break down the muck build up over time?

RC


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Bill, I can provide depth of water clarity Saturday. I had to google the disk lol, but i have the stuff here to make.

Thanks for all the thoughtful replies. I'm closing in on it.

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So I took the kayak out with a "redneck" Secchi disk and I figure the water is clear to just under two feet. While paddling I measured around and it appears, as it stands now, the pond is five feet at its deepest point, with another foot of water expected when I install the new drain cover.

I also have a friend in the heavy construction industry (actually, the same guy who's finishing up my drain cover) and I think he can hook me up with a small backhoe and operator. Maybe I can get around the shore with it.

Soooo, that's where I'm at. I appreciate the advice.

Mark

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Caught this little guy on a nine-grain bread ball LOL


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Secchi of 2ft will allow light penetration for plant growth to depths of around 5-6ft deep. Your water is marginal for getting oxygen produced naturally at 6ft. Aeration would benefit getting DO to the deeper areas of 5-6ft when the Secchi disk readings are less than 2ft.

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So I'm plugging away at this, and unled I'm reading Bill's above response incorrectly, it seems aeration would be beneficial at Stately Gaffney Manor.

found this chart http://www.vertexwaterfeatures.com/aeration-lifting-rates

And assuming my half-acre pond at 5' deep contains about 980,000 gallons, it appears with two vertex disc diffusers, I can turn my pond about every eight hours at 2 CFM. It appears the vertex discs like 1 CFM each.

So, my new questions are:

1. Is my math right? I was an arts major.
2. If it is, would I do better placing the two diffusers in one bank, or place the diffusers a nominal distance apart, say 75 feet? What's more effective? Lots and lots of bubbles in one area, or just lots of bubbles in two different areas?
3. When I'm spec'ing out the pump, how much line loss should I cook into the recipe. I have some 3/4" PVC left over from an irrigation project, and I'm thinking about using it to get the air to the edge of the pond, then going with weighted tube in the water, UNLESS ;-) someone convinces me that running the PVC in the pond is a good idea. I'm thinking it isn't.
4. How QUIET are y'alls compressors? Will I have to be concerned about waling the neighbors?

Thanks for your input. And if I'm completely out-of-whack on this, please let me know.

Mark

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Assuming your surface area is correct then the pond contains close to 407,000 gallons. Diffuser placement will depend a lot on how deep the pointed end of the pond is. How far toward the pointed end does the 5ft depth extend? Basically if you use two separate diffusers they both should be in 5 ft of water. Other areas of 4.5ft and shallower will basically have DO always on the bottom and not need to be mixed. One dual head diffuser may be enough to mix all the pond areas deeper than 4.5ft. The 3/4" PVC will suffice to get air to the pond. Then various hose types can be used for delivering air from shore to the diffusers. Weighted airline is easiest and quickest but most expensive. Compressors of rotary vane and rocking piston (wobble piston) are both not going to be heard by the neighbors, although rotary vane is quieter than rocking piston but not by many db. Look for a PM.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 10/03/14 07:50 PM.

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