Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Corrective stocking Rotenone price Ouch!

I have a two acre pond that was over run with bullheads when we bought the place it sits on a couple of years ago. I have been thinking about trying to kill them off with rotenone. Since I'm sort of a part time farmer I called one of my ag chemical suppliers to see if they can get it and what the price would be. I calculated that I would need at least ten gallons and probably more since bullheads are the hardest species to kill. It comes in four gallon jugs at $120 a gallon. So we're talking about $1440 and I'm not even sure it will work.
I think I'll go back to the drawing board.

Wonder if you could shock them up and net them out?
Just wondering if that would be more feasible than poison

Pat W

Pump the water out so the pond is nearly empty. Takes less chemical. Some guys on here been talking about pumping then using hydrated lime.

Richard why not lime it? We've discussed this a few times I thought, or maybe I'm losing my mind. Hydrated lime is $9/50# bag. Pump, nuke, net fish and start over. Probably cost a fraction of that amount and may help clear tubidity, too.

Ditto on the pumping and nuking. Either hydrated lime or Rotenone, but reduce the volume of water that needs to be treated to a minimum. You CAN drain the water with a gasoline pump. Been there, done that plenty of times.

Just remember to hit any puddles that are left, not just the biggest puddle.

I have been down the same path (or bullhead adventure) as you with the exception of pond size. Here's a free lesson if it pertains to you....

Last season,I drew my pond down, applied Rotenone at 10%-20% above suggested dosage, made sure the pond was froze to the bottom, then stocked what was to be my YP only pond. I am the worst fish manager on earth. As of a couple weekends ago my YP only pond; now has BH's once again. With the added bonus of GSF!

Those BH's are relentless!! I have inflow and outflows so they must be invading from areas that I don't even see...on my own property I might add. Did I mention I am the worst fish manager in the world?

I will now go back to using LMB and will have a brand new gallon of a chemical I will probably never use on my shelf. My humble suggestion is to try and figure out how they got in because I would bet they will do it again. Those little sons of you know whats ! I would hate to see you go to the work and expense and end up with my results

MNF

If you have a watershed with any BOWs or live creeks, even seasonal, upstream I think you might be walking uphill with efforts to treat the BH and GSF population. I think you're on target with aggressive trapping [fyke net and cages] and angling management techniques coupled with at least some single sex LMB to help cull the BH and GSF populations. I think your YP can coexist with those species just fine - so don't give up on them!

Absolutely right TJ!!!!! That's what makes you guys the pro's and me a weekend warrior. Live and learn I guess. I sure am enjoying the journey and we got some decent sized YP. It's just in true PondBoss fashion that i wanted over the top YP Sorry for hijacking this thread Bullhead.

If I had some clue as to how much to apply, I might try this route.

was talking about bullheads in my old refurbished pond with my older brother the other day. He used to fish that pond as a kid. He pointed out, as has also been pointed out here on PBF, that the bullheads will swim up not only pipe overflows if they have access, but even across grassed spillways up hill from a nearby creek during high rainfall and overflow events. The little buggers are tenacious. This old pond has an overflow that dumps into a small seasonal creek with the back side of the dam bordered by this creek.

This same creek also borders my new pond and its overflow is an 8" pipe that dumps into it. I suspect someday during a flood I well get bullheads in my main pond from it and likely also GSF. But by then it should just be a numbers game where the other stocked fish so outnumber the invaders and the established LMB control any YOY they might produce, I don't anticipate them becoming a problem.

In my old refurbished pond, I made the mistake of leaving a puddle in the middle of it when cleaning it out. So the GSF and bullheads got the upper hand before my other fish were established. I've been trapping and catching GSF and bullheads that the removal now numbers in the many hundreds. Remains to be seen if I will get ahead of them, but I think I can. I know with the trapping I can trap enough that it gets hard to catch any. Then I back off the trapping schedule and in a few weeks the tiny fish will get to a size big enough that they will get caught by the traps again and I get a bunch more. All this while moving more 3-5" BG over from my main pond. So I'm taking bullheads and GSF out while putting large enough BG to not be eaten in, repeat, repeat. Also have 6 12" LMB in there now so they should start working on some of the GSF and bullhead recruitment. I think all of that eventually has to make a difference. We will see.

Just my ongoing experience with trying to manage around bullheads and GSF. Most people would not want to spend the time or have the patience to do what I'm doing. Fortunately for me I have a nice main pond so this old pond is not my main fishery. So the old pond has become kind a challenge and play thing. And I have the big pond to source stocking fish, so don't have big expense of sourcing the larger BG or LMB.

You need enough to raise PH to 11-12. Fill 50G tank with pond water you will be treating, measure increments of lime added to tank until PH level reached. Extrapolate data to figure amount needed to treat the pond fully. Drain pond to lowest level possible with trash pump and estimate gallons remaining.

1 acre = 43560 sq ft
1 acre inch = 27,154 gallons
1 acre foot = 325,853 gallons

For example:

Suppose it requires 1 ounce hydrated lime to achieve PH level of 11-12 in 50 gallons of your test pond water.

Let's estimate 1 acre foot of water [325k gallons] remains after pumping - divide 325,853 by 50 = 6,517 ounces.

It would require approximately 407 lbs of hydrated lime to achieve PH level of 11 in pond required for fish kill.

50 lb bags of hydrated lime cost $9. 407/50 = 9 bags.

$81 cost of materials - but you'll also need a ph strip test kit for a few bucks to make sure your pond ph is at the desired PH level. I'd buy a few extra bags to be safe.

You probably could have figured all this out, but I had some fun doing it and might do so myself in a pond this Fall so I needed the practice.

TJ called me and gave me a pep talk last week, so last Friday I went out and bought a bag of hydrated lime and a PH test kit from Menards. They already had Christmas decorations out, so I felt lucky to find the test kits which are usually found in pool supplies still out. However, in my bliss I failed to notice that the test kit only went to a PH of 8.5.
I went out anyway and dutifully filled my fish hauling tank with 50 gallons of lake water. The untreated pond water tested about 7.5 PH. Adding one tablespoon of lime to the 50 gallons changed the color on the test strip significantly to what I would assume was somewhere beyond 8.
From what I read a reading of 8 is actually ten times as alkaline as 7, so I have no idea if one tablespoon raises it from 7 to 8, if four tablespoons raises it from 7 to 11.
So I ordered a PH test kit that goes to 14 and I am awaiting its arrival.
More news as it becomes available.

Once I over treated my 3/4 acre pond with chelated copper (for FA) and all of my CCs died and a bunch of small BHs that I didnt even know where in there floated up also, CNBG and LMB were fine. Load that pond up with chelated copper and float them all.

I'd advise against using copper to kill them off. For one I believe it is illegal to use a herbicide for purposes other than what is stated on the label. Also copper will accumulate in the soil which is not a good thing.

Does anyone have an estimation on how fast pond water at 11PH would kill fish? Would they start popping up out of the water like cooked ravioli?

Bullhead, some fish will die fast, some of the more sensitive, smaller fish will be launching themselves out of the water, but most of your BH will endue a rather gruesome demise and suffocate as their gills are burned. Your bullheads will burrow into the mud, so be sure to treat any mucked up areas above the pool level pretty heavily. Also, if possible, rake the pond muck still under the main pool to get the caustic water to any hiding BH. The lethally high pH will only last a few days after application...

As far as how much H lime it takes to raise the pH above 11 goes, I don't know. I turn the water a very milky white and it will become gin clear in a couple hours or less when it's reached full saturation.

I might wear a mask also. Hydrated lime is not something you want to breath.

A big +1

A really good dust mask or respirator, plus fresh water as an eye wash is a great idea! Breathing in Hydrated lime is like getting a strong hit of ammonia! The H lime is a very fine powder that will get everywhere!