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I have noticed that most solar aeration systems that are sold by pond companies only come with a 125 - 180 watt panel and 220ah battery. Most of these companies also say the aerator will run 24/7. Doing a little research on solar power and the wattage consumed by a typical AC pump, it is calling for 2000 watts worth of panels and a huge battery bank to make a pump run 24/7. I got most of that info off of the Renogy off grid calculator.

I must be doing something wrong seeing that most solar aeration setups are the same. Are these setups all running DC pumps at a much lower wattage than AC?


Any suggestions or help is appreciated.

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Send a PM to highflyer. He's in the process of making a solar aerator for his ponds. Also, talk to mnfish. I think he's doing the same or has done the same thing.


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IMHO, there is so much to your question. It all depends...

I am not an aeration expert and feel a little sheepish even responding to your question.

How big is the BOW you are trying to aerate (surface area and max depth) and do you have access to power?

Last edited by mnfish; 09/15/14 04:43 PM.
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mnfish,

I don't have access to power, it will definitely be a solar setup. The lake is about 1.5 acres. Depth around 12 ft deep.

Thanks.

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Linear diaphragm type pumps are one of the most energy efficient at shallow depths. They might be suitable for a situation where energy requirements are at a premium.

Problem is, they put out loads of air (for the energy used) at 5 feet, a fair amount at 10 feet, and pretty much stall out with no air at around 11 or 12 feet. Their output is very sensitive to back pressure (I.E. water head pressure or in other words water depth).

They also would not likely have the lifespan of a higher end compressor.

Their strengths are 1. relatively low initial cost and 2. a lot of cfm for the energy used when operated within their design capabilities.

Their weaknesses are likely shorter overall life and likely will require a diaphragm kit maintenance every year or two (about $20 for my particular pump model). And they simply do not work at greater depths.

I'm running four Pondmaster AP100's. Three of them are each supplying a dual 9" diffuser in my 3 acre pond, all set at about 9'. I should be getting somewhere between 2 and 2.5 cfm each at that 9'depth (Edit: the chart actually shows about 3 cfm at that depth, but I always try to be conservative in my estimations, because I figure the companies selling the product might not be and they might not live up to advertised specs. Also, I'm using specs from a similar pump, not my actual pump model). The fourth pump is split between two single 9" diffusers, one in my sediment pond (half of a tenth acre) and one in my forage pond, both around 7-8' depth. I use a splitter valve to direct more air to the sediment pond because it is the larger of the two (about 1/10th acre).

I don't have a lot of experience with these pumps. They have been running about 3 months straight with no problems, but that is not much evidence as to what their eventual life will be. They may not last well enough in the long term. But they are working very well for the time being, and I like the fact that I can reduce my electricity requirements at any time by one fourth by simply shutting one of the four pumps off. This gives me a lot of flexibility as far as energy requirement goes.

Each pump is putting out the 2-2.5 cfm (at my particular depth, less deeper and more shallower) for a rated 108 watts. Just slightly more than a 100 watt light bulb. I don't think there is any other type of pump that can touch that for energy efficiency at shallow depths.

Most people would not want to use these type pumps, because of their questionable service life and the hassle of needing to be rebuilt regularly. I mention it to you because of their energy efficiency, which might fit well in a solar application.

Here is an earlier post with a performance curve for a similar pump. Unfortunately the pump I am actually using does not supply a performance curve, but I think this one should be very similar. Notice how the output drops with depth. I would not recommend their use for anything over 10' at the most. I'm getting very strong boils of water with mine at 9'.

Pressure calculation thread

If you could live with diffusers at 10' depth in might be a possibility for a pump that uses little energy for the output it produces. I'm not an expert by any means and have only limited experience with these pumps, so use anything I say at your own risk and do your own due diligence.

Edit: the Pondmaster AP100 mfg recommends a maximum operating depth of 11 ft. It might be fine at that depth, but I've tried to do everything with a margin of safety/error to make sure it works ok and has reasonable service life.

Last edited by snrub; 09/16/14 09:27 AM.

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Thanks snrub, You have always been very helpful. I may have to go that route with the energy efficient linear diaphragm pump.

I was also just curious as to how the solar setups being sold by most lake / pond companies are actually running 24/7 with one 125w panel. Are these running dc compressors?

Thanks again.

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Can't tell you that, but surely they would provide some specs on their systems that should give some indication.

I hate it when companies do not provide specs. Take the Pondmaster AP100 compressors that I am using as an example. They provide no performance curve for the output they provide at different depths. I wrote the company and got a response but no performance curve. I went ahead with the pump because they could be bought on line at a very reasonable cost and I found performance curves of similar pumps that I thought would suffice. But a decently smart high school student with a pressure gauge, shut off valve, a spreadsheet and an hour of time could create a performance curve for the pump. Heck even I could do it given the incentive.

I bought one last fall to try it out and put it in my pond. It worked well so this spring I installed the rest of them.

I would say contact the company that is selling the system and don't be afraid to ask questions.

This is just a guess, but my guess is they are using solar panels, battery, inverter and a 110 volt linear actuated diaphragm compressor. I don't think they can get the efficiency from a DC motor and piston or vane compressor that a linear compressor can do. Inverters have gotten very efficient. But I'm getting way out of my realm of expertise, so do your own due diligence, don't listen to me.


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Thanks again. I will update you with what I can find.

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Snrub- Lots of good info there...

May I ask.. how many Amp*hrs of battery storage are you using. Are you running your system 24/7?

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Snrub,

I use this brand of linear pump that can be used outdoors without protection (the vents face down) and is typically used for septic tanks. I use them primarily for my recirculating systems, but did put a 40 lpm model on my trout pond for the winter to keep some water open, and it worked great until temps dropped below zero. I think the rubber diaphragm got too stiff from the cold. No permanent damage found though once it thawed out.

These pumps use less wattage than lpm where typically watts and lpm are the same.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Air-Pump-Blue-Di...=item25805267a2

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 09/16/14 12:36 PM.

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I'm not solar. Running regular house current. Just pointing out that linear diaphram compressors might be good candidate for solar because of low power consumption. Running 24/7.


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Interesting. Had not seen those. They also have some larger capacity units than what the pondmaster offers. Thanks

If what I am using does not last, provision is made to easily replace all 4 compressors with a single larger vane or rocking piston compressor. We will see what kind of life they offer running 8 or 9 months continous. Not planning on winter operation as snow covered ice for any period is a rarity.

Last edited by snrub; 09/16/14 12:51 PM.

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Cecil and others, just an FYI. When researching these pumps I found that not all mfgs rate their pumps the same. The model number usually represents output in liters per minute. What differs is that some companies rate the output at zero head and others might use 3' head pressure. So one companies 80 liter pump might actually be the same as another companies 100 liter pump when performance curves are compared at the same head pressures. Might be where the discrepency comes on power consumption differences.

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Originally Posted By: snrub
I'm not solar. Running regular house current. Just pointing out that linear diaphram compressors might be good candidate for solar because of low power consumption. Running 24/7.


Ohhh. Got it. Good info sir.

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Originally Posted By: snrub
Cecil and others, just an FYI. When researching these pumps I found that not all mfgs rate their pumps the same. The model number usually represents output in liters per minute. What differs is that some companies rate the output at zero head and others might use 3' head pressure. So one companies 80 liter pump might actually be the same as another companies 100 liter pump when performance curves are compared at the same head pressures. Might be where the discrepency comes on power consumption differences.


So true.

As far as watts the truth be known although I have a watt meter I have not actually verified the claims. I will be doing that soon before I set up a system in the pole building where I want the lowest amount of watts consumed possible via airlifts and gravity flow.


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It seems that most of the solar aeration kits are DC pumps either 12v or 24v.

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Interesting. Do you know the style of pump used? It still could be a linear type motor with diaphram. Or it could be rotary vane or rocking piston. Not that it matters, just interesting to see what cfm output they are getting for the power usage and what maximum operating depth is.

Do you know of a web site?

I have a pond that could use solar if it becomes reasonably priced to do. It is my old pond, but am finding spending more and more time there with it.


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cw_ky,

I have done quite a bit of investigation into these systems with the 120 - 180 watt panels. And these lower power systems are not going to be effective in larger bodies of water. A couple that I looked at were pushing about .3 cfm, that isn't a lot of air, and as a result you aren't going to be moving a whole lot of water either. These might be effective in a backyard koi pond, but I do not feel they would be effective in a 1/4 acre pond.

Most of the pumps are either 12v or 24v and if you check the specs to find the amps used you can calculate what it is going to take to run them. Using the Renology tool is a good way to get the requirements figured out. I have also seen a few systems out there that use A/C pumps and an inverter, and although it will work using the inverter creates an even greater load on your system. The bottom line is the A/C setup is going to be less efficient. However the A/C pumps do tend to have a longer lifespan, so that is something to keep in mind.

With solar you really need to strike a balance between efficiency and function and that can be difficult. We are all used to tons of power from the A/C pumps, but it isn't always necessary. If you are calculating that you need 2000 watts of panels you must be trying to run a really powerful pump, I would definitely look for something more efficient.

I have been working on one of these systems for a couple of years now doing testing using various pumps, and solar arrays, and initially it was a rocky road because there is definitely a learning curve with solar. My research, although far from comprehensive, is that most of the solar systems, regardless of size are using some kind of diaphragm pump.

My primary aeration system uses a 3/4 horse Gast rotary vane pump, and that thing sucks power like nobody's business, but I chose to sacrifice some efficiency for peace and quite because this box is sitting 40 feet from my deck! It costs me about $75 a month to run it, and if I tried to run it with a solar array, it would have to be huge! Compromise is the name of the game...

Mike

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I don't know much about aeration systems and even less about solar aeration systems. That being said, I'll offer a couple of observations.

If you have water depth of ten feet or less, especially if eight feet or less, I have seen nothing that can touch the efficiency from a power consumption standpoint of a linear motor diaphragm pump. At low head pressures, they put out lots of cfm's with little power input. I would think they would be a good candidate for solar power systems, if the water depth limit fits the application.

An inverter wastes some energy, that is certain. But there are already "off the shelf" solutions that can automatically shut themselves off when battery power reaches critical low situations. This requires battery(s), but also gives the potential to run the system at night. It also avoids any computer controller specifically to protect a DC system to make sure it does not try to run under a too low power situation. Inverter runs till battery reaches a too low power situation and automatically shuts itself down. Ready made off the shelf. From a "DIY" standpoint that feature and simplicity of operation would be a desirable feature to me.

Just ramblings from someone who has not tried any of this. I do use linear pumps for my aeration system though, but it has only been running since this spring.

Information worth every penny you paid for it.


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