Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Muddy water My Neighbor's Erosion in My Pond

I have a 12 year old pond that we built by damming up a small spring fed creek on our farm in rural Northeast Georgia. The creek is spring fed and emerges from the hill sides a short distance up the mountain. The creek has always run clear and strong...even through a several year drought. The pond we built is about 3 acres and WAS a beautiful gem with deep green water and a thriving fish population.

About a year ago I began noticing that the pond would become stained (about the color of chocolate milk) with a very heavy rain. Gradually it would clear, but it seemed to take a less significant rain to bring on the staining. With the frequent and heavy rain that we've had all summer, the pond is pretty much staying this awful color.

Yesterday, after I learned of (an upstream) neighbor's timber clear cutting, my wife and I decided to follow the siltation to its source and we found a real mess. The neighbor has clear cut a large tract upstream from me and the erosion into my water source is staggering. We have ZERO doubt as to where our pond's siltation problem is coming from.

The neighbor's clear cut tract is completely exposed to the ravages of wind and water...no silt fence whatsoever. You can easily see where the runoff is carrying huge quantities of red dirt down the ravines and into the creek that supplies my pond. The creek is now clogged with dirt from his clear cutting and it appears that this could go on until my pond has completely filled in.

As I think back on it, I recall hearing heavy equipment running for months in that direction...just never realized what it was. I would say that the timing of hearing the equipment running and then first noticing the staining are coincident.

IMHO, my neighbor has been negligent in not taking steps to prevent his bare, freshly cut soil from being washed down the hillside and into the creeks.

So, my question is this: What do I do about it?

Thanks in advance for your help.

Call Soil and Water Conservation

Will give it a try.

Update: I met my neighbor and he was very much aware of the issue and feeling pretty guilty. I decided to give him an opportunity to repair the damage and he immediately installed 1600' of silt fence. We are going to give it a couple of months to settle out and see if we need to do some dredging. What a pain in the a$$. Still, I think we are better off leaving the bureaucrats out of it...I'd rather see the guy's resources going to fix the problem than adding to the governments coffers.

Or he realizes he's been caught in the act and has no good defense. I find it hard to believe he had no clue to the damage he was doing.

Hopefully you two can work it out and your approach is the best one but it is a little late.

Unfortunately, not only has the pond possibly been damaged due to the erosion, the stream has been damaged too. Even if you dredge out your pond, what's to prevent the soil that is now in the stream from washing into your pond even of no more dirt comes from the clear-cut property?

The neighbor has now silt fenced his land, so that should stop any new mud from entering the system. However, as you point out, there's a bunch of mud in the drainage between his land and my pond...and I'm guessing its nearly a mile worth of dirt.

So, at this point I am left with waiting for future rain to scour out the ravines and creek bed...and deposit all that mud into my pond. My plan is to wait for all that to happen, then see about dredging the pond.

So back to my original question: What do I do about this travesty? I don't really want to call in the government ...but how do I know what should be done to the system to mitigate the damage? Who can I call to advocate for ME?

I doubt any significant amount of silt built up to make it worth dredging..

I'm not at all sure about how much silt is in the pond or on its way to the pond. Time will tell, but I think it may need dredging. After all, the clear cut has had a year to drain in my direction and the creek/ravine that it flows into are full of dirt.

But, this is an area that I could use some expert help-preferably from someone who can come on site and inspect whats happened.

Since you're in Ga, I don't know how far you are away from Greg Grimes. I'd call their office and see if you could bend his ear for a minute or two. Tell him you're on the forum and was recommended from here. He may be able to tell you which way to turn. He's in Ball Ground, GA http://lakework.com/site/

Esshup is right, Greg can probably help. If you're in NE GA you're not too far away.

Update.

In August, I invited Greg Grimes to visit me (we have used Greg and his company in the past-he's a good guy) and give me his assessment of the situation. I also asked my neighbor to be there so he'd hear the same thing I did. Greg tested the depth of the silting and found that the only place with any "significant" silting was at the mouth of the creek where he estimated the depth at 3' (three feet). But this was in a very small area relative to the overall area the pond covers.

Greg's suggestion was that we install a silt pond in the creekbed that supplies the pond. We agreed to do this and hired an excellent grading guy to do the work. We did utilize some of my neighbor's 4500# concrete blocks to create the damn in the creekbed and then lined the blocks with some heavy duty rubber liner that's made for holding back water.

Greg also suggested that we add a (sp??) floc log to "settle" the ultra fine clay particulate.

My neighbor has been fully cooperative and has willingly covered the costs of all of this 100%.

It's now had several months to operate and while I would not say the pond is back to normal, its improved dramatically. The color is back to its normal deep green and the clarity is excellent. However, I should add that we've had precious little rain to really evaluate our progress. We'll see....

Yesterday I cleared leaves all day by the pond. I did not notice a single living thing in the pond. I also see a film of very fine particulate coving the bottom. Not sure if we had a fish kill or not.

BTW, I discussed dredging the pond with the guy who did the silt pond work for me. He suggested that the only way to do it would be to drain the pond completely, let it dry out and then put earth moving equipment in the pond. Seems like a pretty drastic set of actions...but I don't know. Is there any alternative to draining it?



Any suggestions on where to take this.

Sorry for all the troubles. I can offer no real suggestions of help, other than it would seem like your dirt guy would know your situation the best and he is "probably" right. Has any type of grasses grown up on the eroded slopes where the erosion begins?

I would like to hear more about this "silt log" and a picture of your silt pond would be great for educational purposes.

Edit...Maybe you could get Greg back to evaluate what is left in your pond and what needs to be done to get it back to where you want it fish-wise.

Here's a company (n ot sure if its the one we used) that makes floc logs: http://www.siltstop.com/flog_log_aps_700.html

About the silt pond. The creek that supplies my pond flows at a rate of about 1 gallon per second and begins its life as a series of springs that emerge in the hills above my place...no more than a mile. At one point the creek points straight at a hillside, which forces the creek to make a 90 degree turn. Over time it has eroded this bank and has created a bit of a pool in the creek bed. Just after the creek turns we decided to created a dam using four huge concrete blocks (like giant Lego's). The idea was if we can slow down the flow of water in the creek, the water will deposit its load...and do so in the creek bed rather than in the pond.

I expect that at some point we may have to clean the silt pond out...just a question of how much more silt is going to roll down the hill.

I do think that even if this hadn't occurred, installing a silt pond would have been a good idea.

If the pond was mine, that is the only way that I'd renovate the pond - draining and then removing the dirt. It's much harder on the equipment to work in the water, and while a good operator can "feel" what the equipment is doing, you cannot compact the pond basin, nor know for sure what the bottom looks like.

If you are going to re-do the pond, drain it.

For a simple test to prove to yourself how much harder and more time consuming it is to dig in the water, take a bucket or 4" deep pan, Fill it with a couple inches of dirt, then the rest of the way with water. Take an identical pan and just have dirt in it, no water. Now take a tablespoon. Remove the same number of scoops of dirt from each container. Which one did you remove more dirt from? Time is money.....

Update:

Its now been about two years since I discovered my neighbor's transgressions. During that time the neighbor has done a lot of work to eliminate his erosion issue and we have seen a big reduction in the amount of dirt that streams into our pond with a heavy rain. Still, I suspect that the drainage between him and me still has silt that is headed my way...how much? Anybody's guess.

The color of our pond has improved, but it is still more chocolate brown than I'd like and certainly more stained than it was before the invasion began. Before it was "attacked" the pond was a deep, beautiful green color.

One of the things we did to slow the influx of silt was to dig a silt catch basin in the creek bed leading into my pond. This has now filled to capacity with sand and clay...so I don't see how its really accomplished much since, with a heavy enough rain, that dirt will eventually be washed into the pond. Maybe I'm missing something.

If I was determined to eliminate as much of the clay and dirt that has been washed into our pond, what would you all recommend I do? Is it feasible to drain and clean the pond's basin?

Again, the property is in north Georgia. I am open to draining the pond...actually I'd love to start over with a more informed stocking program. If I was to drain it, what's the best time of year to do so? Any thoughts on what the biggest challenges would be? I have 52 acres, so finding a place to unload the mess shouldn't be impossible, if the material can be picked up and moved.

Can anyone recommend a contractor in north Georgia or western South Carolina who could do this work?

If I drain the pond, what's the best way to do this? Ideal time of year? How long will it take to dry out to a point where it can be worked?

Thanks again for your help?

Easiest way is to breach your dam and push everything through the breach. The silt will drain and dry somewhat quickly depending on the weather, but MUCK (since it is 12 years old) will only dry about 18" deep.

You'll probably need a track hoe, tracked front loaders and a good dozer. If you can, and your neighbor is still covering the cost, I would clean as much creek bed as I could at the same time!

One side note...Be careful with your spoils so no neighbor below you comes looking for the next pond downstream to be cleaned...

Cleaning out the catch basin/silt trap when it gets full will help keep the silt out of your pond.

Best time to renovate a pond is during the dry time of the year, which usually is in the Fall.

Draining and cleaning out the pond basin is feasible, but until you can eliminate the sediment washing into the pond, I'd hold off on doing it. Is there any way to keep the catch basin cleaned out? If you can do that, then I'd look into renovating the pond.

When you DO renovate the pond, I'd make sure to dig it much deeper to try and minimize the impact that any silt/sand washing into the pond will have.

I dug my pond down to 22' depth, and had approx. 3' of sand wash into it about a week after it was completed. I'm glad that I dug it that deep!!

Would it be difficult to "unbreach" the dam? I.E., can the breach in the dam be sealed back up again?

Yes it can.

I just had it done. They cut a 10'-15' wide space to let the water out then created a short (6' high) levy around about a 1/10acre area then bucketed out all the muck into that area to dry for a year or so, the muck hole is 10 or so feet deep! Yes I had lots of muck. Then they deepened the pond and rebuilt the damn and reskinned it with clay. Got a few good rains after and all is holding great. The pond is a little muddy but due to the solid clay bottom and being new. I am very happy with how it turned out.

Rob C

fishtruck...

How big was your pond?

Age?

Mind if I ask what the cost was?

My pond is a dammed up creek...does this make breaching the dam any more difficult than if the pond was simply a runoff catch basin?

It will probably make the breach and repair even easier since you will be working in a natural drainage channel.

A good pond builder will stitch the existing Dam clay core and repair soils together well, then add extra clay onto the pond side before putting the topsoils back on for a very well sealed repair.

Never would have guessed that this could be done.

Any suggestions on how to find a "good pond builder" in my area (north GA)??

Ask Greg.

I think he means Greg Grimes -- he's a member here too and you can find his site on the google.