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I look at fish food like dog food. Better quality food means less poop to clean up (less fillers) so I think better quality food will leave the water in better condition too.


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And as Cody sez "Fish swim in their own toilets.".

It's really a matter of feed going to body condition instead of waste.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Thanks guys then it's cargill (can get it at T Overtons) or Purina. What is the name of purina that is smaller pellet size for smaller BG 3-4" ?

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Sportfish 500 (it used to be Aquamax 500) or if it's just BG you are feeding it used to be called Gamefish chow.


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Thanks Essup I will try some

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The GFC has multiple sized pellets to match the size of the fish.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Dave
That sounds like the perfect feed size- every body gets fed not just the big boys... Fun part is finding a reliable source that's also fresh.

Thanks
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Let your fingers do the walking, and make sure to call first before driving there. Just because they are on the list doesn't mean that they stock it, it just means that they can order it.

http://aquamax.purinamills.com/locator.html


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Tractor Supply Co locally carries the Cargill game fish and the catfish but never know if it will be in stock or not. I try to buy enough GFC to last me for a while when they have it.

You can sure smell the difference in feeds that have fish meal compared to the higher grain base.

Last edited by snrub; 08/28/14 01:15 PM.

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They are building a Tractor Supply in Buffalo now so that will be real handy. Thanks guys yall have been a great help in this new undertaking of managing a new pond.

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Ran across something interesting while perusing Dunn's Fish Farm web site. This quote about fish food.

"The Protein level on your feed should be in the 28% to 32% range. There are higher protein feeds on the market, however, they are not necessary for most non-commercial pond environments. Higher protein feeds are typically reserved for production ponds with commercial stocking densities."

I've never even heard of 28%. Lowest I have seen is 32%.

That seems to go against the general PBF consensus from what I've gathered since being here. The consensus I have gathered is that "more is better" when it comes to protein levels.

I've often wondered if it made a big difference of fish being 100% dependent on fish food for their sustenance compared to a more typical pond situation where the feed is more supplemental in nature and might comprise say....10% to 50% of the fish's food intake?

Different fish I would assume might require different protein levels? LMB compared to CC for example. Big fish vs fry? But what to do in a pond with a mix of everything?

Any old threads that address this subject? Archives?

Does bad feed really contribute to a shorter life of a pond? Let's see, on my three acre pond I moved about 1000 loads of dirt with a 12 yard scraper................ how long would it take bad feed to fill up my pond? I feed maybe 20 bags a year. At two gallons a day, how long would it take to degrade water quality?

Please, no death threats to the messenger. eek I know feed quality discussions can be very controversial, emotional and near political in its nature of opinions. grin laugh Just trying to get at the truth here. "Just the facts", please. smile

So is Dunn's nutritionists all wet? (metaphorically speaking, working on a fish farm I would assume he/she would likely get wet for real on occasion and that is not a bad thing). grin

I try to feed 36% when I can get it. But without special ordering, sometimes 32% is all I can get. Is that a terrible thing to do to my pond? Is feeding what some might consider "bad feed" worse than feeding no feed at all? That is an honest question for the average pond owner that goes into his local feed store and asks for fish food. There is a very good chance (in our area at least) all they are going to have is 32%.

Last edited by snrub; 09/02/14 08:10 AM.

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"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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The way I see and understand it:

32% is certainly adequate but not optimum IF you are trying to grow larger, quicker growing, fish. That's been proven. However, none of the monster bass in Texas lakes have eaten anything other than forage. So, just how important is it? I'm not sure. I do believe that pedigree can make a difference.

How about geographic differences? Nate figures to beat the world record bass in the colder, shorter growing season up North. If anyone can do it, he can.

Al Hall produces massive CNBG's and he feeds high protein pellets to what I call the upchuck amounts.

I believe that the right amount and numbers of the right forage can make a difference. Fish with high oily amounts of oil can make a difference. Purina uses Menhaden in their AMAX feeds. A fish that doesn't have to burn up much energy to feed will grow better and quicker. Again, this assumes genetics are there.

What about life spans on fish that have been fed to satiation on high or lower protein amounts? No matter what region? I don't know.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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I believe that when a fish is hungry it will eat whats in front of it's face. I feed roughly 50# of food a month in my pond, and even tho the fish are there every feeding time, they eat a lot of natural forage in the pond too.

I have a groundwater pond, where water flows in and out with the groundwater.

When the water table was higher and (I believe) not much water was flowing thru the pond, I had a worse algae problem. (nutrients) With the lower water table, and pumping well water into the pond, the algae problem is less, (my SWAG is less nutrients in the water due to water flowing in and out of the pond).

A pond is like an aquarium. Without filtration, the fish are swimming in their own toilet bowl. Filtration comes in the form of phytoplankton, plants, algae and bacteria. The longer you observe your pond, the better you will get at noticing the changes that happen on a daily basis, which will help you adjust how you manage the pond.

I think of fish food like dog food. Higher quality food means less needs to be fed, so less comes out the other end of the fish (or dog) to keep them on an even keel or add weight.

Activity levels change the amount of food needed too. One Springer Spaniel I had would keep her weight the same on 2 cups (16 oz. by measure) of food per day in the "off" season. When we were training for field trials and hunting hard, she needed 2 feedings per day, each feeding was 5 cups. That's on a dog that weighed 30#. Purina Pro Plan was the food year 'round.


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From my presentation at PB Cov on Fish Nutrition

Because fish growth often is limited by food availability, supplemental feeding is a logical tool to improve the condition of fish in small impoundments as the energy cost for bluegill to feed on pellets is small relative to the high caloric intake, which can be 4-5 times greater than those fed natural foods (Schalles and Wissing 1976).


Substantial increases in the standing stock of bluegill in ponds that receive pellet feed have been recorded (Schmittou 1969) and, in lakes, pellet feeding has been found to increase the number of large bluegills (Nail and Powell 1975).


These results indicate that total fish production and production of bluegill were each increased approximately 75 to 80% by supplemental feeding in 19 months after stocking (Schmittou 1967)


Previous studies demonstrated that feed in excess of 10 pounds per acre per day in bluegill ponds was not utilized. Some accumulated and decomposed, thus depleting the supply of dissolved oxygen which resulted in fish kills (Schmittou 1967) .


the rate of growth of sunfish can be increased by short-circuiting the food cycle, thereby producing harvestable size sunfish in a shorter period of time than would occur under natural conditions (Carnes 1966).


The pellet size should be approximately 20-30% of the size of the fish species mouth gape. Feeding too small a pellet results in inefficient feeding because more energy is used in finding and eating more pellets. Conversely, pellets that are too large will depress feeding and, in the extreme, cause choking. Select the largest sized feed the fish will actively eat.

Addition of supplemental pelleted feed did not contribute to the rate of growth of young shad, but did increase the growth and spawning frequency of adults.

The immense variety of cultured finfish species hampers efforts to simplify production industry wide. Approximately 170 taxa are currently cultured, including carnivores, herbivores, planktivores, and omnivores, each posing its own set of nutritional demands .

Fish meal has proven to be an excellent dietary protein source for finfish, leading to its description as an ‘‘ideal protein.’’ The ideal protein concept is based on the premise that if the amino acid profile of the feed mimics the whole-body amino acid profile of the animal being fed, protein utilization and growth should be maximized

Lipids, fatty acids, and their derivatives play a role in virtually every physiological process that occurs and for this reason dietary lipid composition and content represent a massive sector of overall nutrition. Nowhere is this more true than in finfish nutrition where lipid can exceed protein in the body composition of finfish, a testament to the physiological and energetic importance of this nutrient class (Tocher2003). Aside from physiological importance, lipids are indispensable energy sources, especially for finfish, which are not well-adapted to carbohydrate utilization.

Dietary protein and energy must be kept in proper balance because a deficiency or excess of dietary energy can reduce growth rates. Fish fed diets deficient in energy will metabolize more expensive dietary protein to meet energy requirements. Excess dietary energy can decrease protein intake and suppress growth.

finfish do not require carbohydrates in their diet, … complex carbohydrates cannot be digested and utilized efficiently by most finfish species. A general dichotomy exists in the carbohydrate digestive ability of warmwater omnivores and herbivores versus the inability of coolwater and coldwater carnivores, which lack the appropriate function necessary for digestion of carbohydrates.

 For this reason, diets fed to these fish rarely contain more than 20% complex carbohydrate

Conversely, warmwater omnivores or herbivores (e.g., channel catfish, tilapia, common carp, and white sturgeon) adapt well to diets containing as much as 40% dietary carbohydrate .

Although vitamins and minerals are required in minute amounts compared with protein, lipid, and so forth, they are critically important, … Every micronutrient has a deficiency disease associated with it, the effects of which are sometimes irreversible or fatal. For a few vitamins and most minerals, excess can be equally detrimental, resulting in toxicity.


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Thanks ewest for that summary. Sure wish I could have made the convention. Previous commitments prevented it.


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You have another chance this Feb, but you'll probably be south of the border?


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Got the texas hunter feeder out and set up:

Wanted to check condition of fish in pond so I caught some grasshoppers and fished a little. The results were not what I wanted to see. I had stocked 50 large CNBG that I had caught from a neighbors lake they were about a lb each. Caught 4 that size and they were very poor and skinny but all the small CNBG were healthy and fat! Could they be poor due to possibly spawning activity( spawning beds visible) or something else. Remember one of my "good" neighbors put bass in without me knowing - they spawned this spring ,cause there are baby bass all around the edges of pond(about5 acres). I don't see any fatheads any more-50lb were stocked this Feb. I am concerned at what I am seeing.HELP!! Any ideas as to what is going on


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Sometimes adult fish don't do well when transplanted to a new BOW. They aren't used to the pond, and have a hard time finding food in the new environment. Also, if the "new" (to them) pond is new, then there won't be the forage base that is built up in the old pond.

Remember, different sized fish (even of the same species) do better with different sized food. It's hard to get fat when you are chasing tiny morsels all over the place vs. sitting down to a big meal.


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Esshup

Do u think I should stock more 3-4" CNBG instead of hoping the large ones I stocked will spawn? Was planning on putting more in this fall when it cools down, also Adding more FHMs to help out the situation of the untimely addition of bass.


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Pat, refresh my memory. What fish are in there, (quantities and size) and what are the goals for the pond? 5 acres, correct?


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Esshup

I stocked 20lbs FHM January, 30lbs feb.
1000 1-3" combo CNBG / RES (80/20) Feb
This year . Also 300 3" blk crappie ( I know)
Last November put several hundred gambusia
And ghost shrimp. The pond is about 2/3 full.
Finished it in late October . Added 50 adult CNBG from neighbors lake (about a pound each),hoping to supplement spawning for forage. Then someone added some bass unknown size and quantity and they did spawn! I see the little perps terrorizing the gambusia . Wanted to add bass next summer after the crappie had a chance to spawn along with the CNBG

Also have about an acre of flooded timber for cover


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Whar are your goals for the fishery?


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Esshup

We would like to have an all around fishery including crappie. My wife and I will fish the heck out of the crappie year round. Bass will be there to help keep the crappie in ck.
But a few added LMB added this early threw a kink in things, so not sure .


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I just wanted to touch on the 15minute rule. I think that it is probably about as good a plan as any, but I truly believe that right now my fish could eat 50+ pounds in 15 minutes.
I am feeding Aquamax 500 at the rate of 200lbs per month and they never feed for more that 3-4 minutes at a time before all the feed is gone.

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