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mnfish Offline OP
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This is a project that I have been working on quite passionately for 6 seasons now. A lot of failures along the way but some, IMHO, good discoveries too. I just wanted to use this thread as a documenting place for the project and a possible learning tool for others. Myself and my neighbor, with a lot of learning here on PondBoss, are breaking or at least pushing many paradigms of growing fish here in the frozen state of MN. We are pushing the size, depth, water location, and types of fish with the use of this very simple system.

The system pictured here was installed last weekend. Its the second system now running and I will be documenting its success or failure through out this year. Our goal has been;
1) Raise and carry most fish native to MN over winter within a body of water less than 1/2 acre with an average depth of 6' or less.
2) Do it with a very simple aeration system that could be set up and run anywhere in MN.

The last two seasons, with test pond one, were our first successes. Can we keep doing it?...Who knows.

Test pond two, pictured here, is .2 acres with an average depth of 5'. The aerator is a 150W panel with the compressor and electronics pictured. This is the entire system. Direct pumping with no batteries. It is pushing 1-1.5CFM for an average of 8hrs/day (summer) and average of 5hrs/day (winter). This pond has been stocked with LMB,BG,YP,GSF,FHM,WE.






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I plan on starting a similar project in a week or two, one thing I've noticed is that the prices of PV panels are all over the place. Mind sharing who you got your panel from?

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MNFISH,

I love people who push the limits!! I do have a few questions if you have the time.

1. How do you protect the pump until you get enough power from that one panel to run it (IE while it has partial sun and is producing some power, but not enough to run it)?

2, What pump is that? Did you find that off the shelf, or did you build it from parts?

3. How many amps?

4. How did you check the CFM rate?

5. What diffuser are you using?

6. Are you protecting for ice or thermal cline?

Thanks for any info, I have been doing mine for a while now as well, but I went with a battery and inverter style system because mine needs to run over night. I also want the rest of the power for pumping water from pond to pond and other functions.


Brian

The one thing is the one thing
A dry fly catches no fish
Try not to be THAT 10%
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mnfish Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: jims place
I plan on starting a similar project in a week or two, one thing I've noticed is that the prices of PV panels are all over the place. Mind sharing who you got your panel from?


Ain't that the truth, about the price variation! Where I get hung up is with shipping. I have bought them from many different places in many different configurations. The one pictured on test pond two was purchased from:

https://www.renogy-store.com/150W-Mono-p/rng-150d.htm

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I went a different rout and just added 7KW array to power everything.

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mnfish Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: highflyer
MNFISH,

I love people who push the limits!! I do have a few questions if you have the time.

1. How do you protect the pump until you get enough power from that one panel to run it (IE while it has partial sun and is producing some power, but not enough to run it)?
In direct 12V or 24V solar pumping there is a device that allows the pump to begin turning in low light and thus overcoming the stall. It's called a linear current booster or LCB


2, What pump is that? Did you find that off the shelf, or did you build it from parts?
The pump is a Gast off the shelf but the electronics to drive it are custom

3. How many amps?
It takes 75W to run. In a 12V system, around 6.5 amps

4. How did you check the CFM rate?
I did take some liberties and assumptions. I measured the pressure at the pump and assumed a zero loss thru the line and a stone diffuser. Then used the pump performance graph to get the CFM's. The system is set up to run at full speed even under cloudy conditions. Once 75W is attained, the performance graph should fit.

5. What diffuser are you using?
This is going to be another thread coming very soon. wink I have been using/testing both stones and membranes. The one pictured is a single membrane diffuser.

6. Are you protecting for ice or thermal cline?
Not exactly sure what you are asking for here...sorry, please clarify and remember to ask as though you are speaking to a third grader (my apologies to those third graders whose intelligence I just insulted smile ).

Thanks for any info, I have been doing mine for a while now as well, but I went with a battery and inverter style system because mine needs to run over night. I also want the rest of the power for pumping water from pond to pond and other functions.

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mnfish Offline OP
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When it comes to solar power knowledge, I am playing whiffle ball compared to you major league baseball smile

Awesome system you got there!

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MNFISH,

Question 6 simple means "Why are you aerating" are you trying to mix the water during the summer or winter or both? In the summer we get hard thermal clines here in Texas. The reason to use aeration in the summer is to "open" more of the water column for the fish to use. Up north I hear people use aeration to "open" or keep open a hole in the ice for O2.

So I was wondering when are you going to use your system and for which purpose.

Excellent info!!

Can't wait for the other thread.


Brian

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A dry fly catches no fish
Try not to be THAT 10%
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mnfish Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: highflyer
MNFISH,

Question 6 simple means "Why are you aerating" are you trying to mix the water during the summer or winter or both? In the summer we get hard thermal clines here in Texas. The reason to use aeration in the summer is to "open" more of the water column for the fish to use. Up north I hear people use aeration to "open" or keep open a hole in the ice for O2.

So I was wondering when are you going to use your system and for which purpose.

Excellent info!!

Can't wait for the other thread.



The most critical time for us, at least in my limited 12 years of experience and location, is ice over. Open water during the winter months to let the pond "breath". We do aerate all year around. More for pump life evaluations and design limit testing, if commercialization is ever warranted. With shallow wetland type ponds that I'm working with, I am beginning to believe aeration is not necessary during the other 3 seasons. Currently, we have a couple bodies of water with less than 4' of average depth with some descent fish in them. Without winter aeration those fish will most certainly perish.

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Got it, Thanks.

I like the LCB idea as well, It has its merits. and it could be very useful.


Brian

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Try not to be THAT 10%
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mnfish Offline OP
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For those following along, here is Test pond 1 (1/4 acre). A shallow wetland pond in central MN. The same aerator electronics as test pond 1. There are 2 single diffusers. One set at 3-4' and at the other in the deepest spot of 6'. Stocked YP,LMB,BG,PS. GSF and BH are also present.

Test pond 1 aerator box will be heated and/or heavily insulated to keep the temperature inside the box above 20F through out the winter. The box on Test pond 2 will be at ambient.


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Originally Posted By: mnfish
For those following along, here is Test pond 1 (1/4 acre). A shallow wetland pond in central MN. The same aerator electronics as test pond 1. There are 2 single diffusers. One set at 3-4' and at the other in the deepest spot of 6'. Stocked YP,LMB,BG,PS. GSF and BH are also present.

Test pond 1 aerator box will be heated and/or heavily insulated to keep the temperature inside the box above 20F through out the winter. The box on Test pond 2 will be at ambient.



Awesome thread. Could you build a small vertical wind turbine to potentially produce power when the sun is not favorable? I saw a cool one made out of PVC on utube once.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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mnfish Offline OP
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Cecil- system runs in almost any light conditions. Very dark cloudy days would be a no pumping situation. The wind stuff is very cool but a whole new learning curve and wouldn't apply very well to my situation. Low areas surrounded by trees.

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Makes sense!


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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This is a pretty cool setup, nice work! I have been trying to work on a similar project with mixed results. For the hose running out to your diffuser did you use a self sinking hose? It looks quite large for in the picture for such a small pump. Is it 1/8" ID or 3/8 ID hose? Thanks!

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mnfish, just curious, what happened to the photobucket picture that shows in the left side of your profile when you post?

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I was cleaning up my pics and I think I deleted it off of Phototbucket. I haven't got around to attaching another pic. Probably should get that done! blush

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Mnfish,

So using the LCB there is no danger of damaging the compressor due to low voltage?


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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I was looking at your top pictures again and it looks like the air hose that goes underwater goes inside a larger pvc pipe? What is the benefits or ideas behind doing that? I have about the same size pond, a little deeper and I have about 70 feet-80 feet of weighted hose on the bottom. I can easily pull up my diffuser and run the weighted hose in pvc if it makes sense to do so.

I was thinking some day about making some type of drag that I could drop in on the long end of my mostly oblong pond, stretch rope to the other side, and use my garden tractor to drag out the leaves, non-floating FA, sticks, organic nastyness etc. What held me back is worrying about dragging up my weighted air line.

If it was encased in pvc the drag might shimmy over it better? Or maybe after being underwater for about 18 months now the sediment has buried it sufficiently?

2nd question:

I'm toying with the idea of trying to keep just a tiny circle of water open in the shallow water this winter to avoid a winter kill. I'm not looking for a large plume from a membrane aerator, just maybe 8" hole? Something like Cecil posted pictures or last winter in his pond. I'd rather not have to pull up the vertex membranes and move them twice a year to bring from deep to shallow and then vice versa in the spring.

Can I make some kind of T in the compressor box with a shutoff valve or redirector valve. Then in winter I can shift over to a new short segment hose that goes into the shallow area and run on a timer or just as needed to keep a small area opened. Since that 2nd run is short and only a couple of feet into the water I don't think I need weighted hose. The run is downhill so no fears of freezing the air line.

How to make a T with valves or shutoffs?

I bought my compressor from Sue at Vertex

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I personally wouldn't drag the bottom as you could stir things up enough to cause issues but I could be wrong.

I try to switch over to a shorter airline and smaller compressor every year for winter aeration. I disconnect my summer airlines at the compressor leads and tape them off with duck tape to keep things out. Then I connect my short airline to a much smaller compressor and I'm good to go.

You most certainly can reroute air with valves you can get at any hardware store. Very easy to do. But it's cheaper to do what I do. And rhe smaller comressor uses less power.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 11/14/14 09:17 AM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Great idea Cecil, then I can also bring in my compressor and maybe protect it from the elements, ice, mice nests etc.

Any suggestions (can PM me if you would like) on smaller compressors? can the smaller compressor just sit out in the weather or needs to be in some type of enclosure? Say under a plastic tote or something?

on the end of the hose in the water do you just have a bare hose end or do you have some type of air stone or diffuser?

Thanks

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CC, if you subscribe to the magazine, I'll bet some of those questions might be answered in the next issue.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
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Great thread guys.

CC

In my opinion, any electrical equipment should be protected from the elements if you want to maximize its life so I would definitely provide shelter. Compressors generate heat so good ventilation in the shelter is a must. I use a self contained compressor with its own shelter (Airmax) and it came with a dedicated cooling fan for the compressor. These are expensive to buy and operate! Since then I built a pump house to get everything up off the ground away from standing water and critters so that expensive shelter that came with the unit has no value to me. When the compressor I have now gives up the ghost, I will replace it with a much less expensive one without its own shelter.

I really like the idea of a second small compressor just for winter. Now I just turn off the diffuser in the deep end during winter and only run the shallow one. I have excess air that I have to just let bleed off as I don't want to over aerate. Throwing money away! I will start looking for a small winter compressor tomorrow!

Esshup

I am really looking forward to the next issue of PB mag. Really want to hear what the experts have to say!


Last edited by Bill D.; 11/14/14 09:28 PM.

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I was looking at prices for compressors as I've had two bite the dust on me but I've had them over 15 years. I can't believe how much the prices have gone up on even the small ones!

I have extra linear diaphram compressers that would be perfect for winter aeration (reasonable in price and economical to run) but the rubber diaphragms stiffen up in really low temps.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Hey, let me know if you run across a good deal on a small one. All I need is just the compressor. I can adapt whatever to my existing air line to the winter diffuser.


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