Pond Boss Magazine
https://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
Shotgun01, Dan H, Stipker, LunkerHunt23, Jeanjules
18,451 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums36
Topics40,902
Posts557,116
Members18,452
Most Online3,612
Jan 10th, 2023
Top Posters
esshup 28,420
ewest 21,475
Cecil Baird1 20,043
Bill Cody 15,112
Who's Online Now
2 members (Dave Davidson1, jpsdad), 719 guests, and 204 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 14
S
OP Offline
S
Joined: Sep 2014
Posts: 14
So i've done a good bit of searching and reading up on the forums around cleaning up ponds and getting some good O2 to the lower strata of the water. I haven't quite found what info I need, so hopefully i could get some insight.

New house, inherited pond. There is fish in the pond i have no idea how many, size etc. I just know that some of the neighbors have fished it in the past. We've got some floating algae/plants (im pretty sure duckweed and FA) i'll post a photo later on the contents for some advice there.

But my main question comes really with getting some water movement in the pond. The best method as well as the most practical. The consensus seems to be overwhelmingly diffusers just off the bottom of the pond with very little value in fountains.

I've seen some turn key systems that range anywhere from 500-2000. Such as this. https://pondenviro.com/bubble-gun-aerator

I guess what im asking for is based on my size is there a commercial turn key that is practical for my needs (2k is not practical for me) OR is there a pump size/type i should just buy along with a diffuser and hose and part it together myself?

Here are some photos of the pond and the size. Note the water line is now up to the small tree on the right (just under the overflow pipe in the back left. Total circumference is about .5 acres and aprox 6-8 feet deep. THANKS!

http://1drv.ms/1nPKD6B

Attached Images
pondarea.JPG maparea2.JPG
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 709
Ambassador
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 709
Hi SimpleGreen! Welcome to Pond Boss!! You can get an excellent complete system with a full warrantee and guaranteed quality for a little more than compressor system you linked to... a 1/4 HP compressor with a single AirStation in the center of your pond will do the trick! I'll PM you some more info. You found a great resource here on the forum for all your pond questions!


Sue Cruz
Vertex Water Features
www.vertexwaterfeatures.com

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,318
Likes: 6
Ambassador
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,318
Likes: 6
Simple welcome to the PBF!! You found a great spot for a lot of into. A do it yourself system is not for everyone. Sue is a great contact for a great system that you can have confidence in. And you will know it's right for your pond. At first that really didn't matter to me when I did my DIY system, but as time goes on and you get more and more invested in your fish all of a sudden it really does start to matter a whole lot!! You DONT want a fish kill after 3 or 4 years of taking care of your fish! That sucks!!

You do want to go with at least a 1/4 hp pump like Sue said. IMO 1/8 is just to small.

Just so you know electric wise. So you can have some idea. I have a GAST 1/3 hp pump and I run mine 8 to 10 hours at night and use about 11 dollars a month on electric. The 1/4 hp pump may be even a little less. Hey good luck and let us know what you decide to do.

RC


Last edited by RC51; 09/03/14 09:49 AM.

The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,794
G
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
G
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,794
Originally Posted By: SimpleGreen
So i've done a good bit of searching and reading up on the forums around cleaning up ponds and getting some good O2 to the lower strata of the water. I haven't quite found what info I need, so hopefully i could get some insight.

New house, inherited pond. There is fish in the pond i have no idea how many, size etc. I just know that some of the neighbors have fished it in the past. We've got some floating algae/plants (im pretty sure duckweed and FA) i'll post a photo later on the contents for some advice there.

But my main question comes really with getting some water movement in the pond. The best method as well as the most practical. The consensus seems to be overwhelmingly diffusers just off the bottom of the pond with very little value in fountains.

I've seen some turn key systems that range anywhere from 500-2000. Such as this. https://pondenviro.com/bubble-gun-aerator

I guess what im asking for is based on my size is there a commercial turn key that is practical for my needs (2k is not practical for me) OR is there a pump size/type i should just buy along with a diffuser and hose and part it together myself?

Here are some photos of the pond and the size. Note the water line is now up to the small tree on the right (just under the overflow pipe in the back left. Total circumference is about .5 acres and aprox 6-8 feet deep. THANKS!

http://1drv.ms/1nPKD6B



Personal Message sent.. grin



N.E. Texas 2 acre and 1/4 acre ponds
Original george #173 (22 June 2002)




Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,183
Likes: 44
Offline
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,183
Likes: 44
SG,

Sue is a very nice, knowledgeable person. She works for Vertex and they sell some of the best aerators. look for the smallest bubbles as they lift more water. The videos shown on the link you provided shows really big bubbles and I doubt they are doing as much good.

Side note: I do not work for Vertex, but I do use some of their products in my ponds and I love them. George is also a user.....Thought I would never be able to say that and get away with it smile!!


Brian

The one thing is the one thing
A dry fly catches no fish
Try not to be THAT 10%
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,318
Likes: 6
Ambassador
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,318
Likes: 6
Simple one thing too you may want to consider in that Texas heat some folks have gone with both a bottom fuser and a surface agitator for maximum D.O. in there pond. You can still have fish kills with just a bottom fuser sometimes. Not saying it's gonna happen but it could. Really just depends on how safe you want to be in that Texas heat!

RC

I am sure the pros here will get you down the right road.


The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,794
G
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
G
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,794
Originally Posted By: highflyer
SG,

Sue is a very nice, knowledgeable person. She works for Vertex and they sell some of the best aerators. look for the smallest bubbles as they lift more water. The videos shown on the link you provided shows really big bubbles and I doubt they are doing as much good.

Side note: I do not work for Vertex, but I do use some of their products in my ponds and I love them. George is also a user.....Thought I would never be able to say that and get away with it :)!!

cry laugh crazy



N.E. Texas 2 acre and 1/4 acre ponds
Original george #173 (22 June 2002)




Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 904
Likes: 12
O
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
O
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 904
Likes: 12
I think it is important for us to note and consider the efficiency of different aeration systems. SOTR (Standard Oxygen Transfer Rate). SAE (Standard Aeration Efficiency).

SOTR and Pumping Rates

Products that boost oxygen concentration most efficiently are paddlewheels and surface agitator type systems. Paddlewheels are used mostly on fish farms and are not very practical for pond owners. Surface agitators that pump water vertically are rated below paddlewheels in oxygen transfer efficiency, and they mix water vertically (limited to 8-10' depth) as well as horizontally. These surface agitators are practical, can be used for emergencies or run on a timer, and are readily available on the market. Diffused air systems have the lowest SAE values, but they are an efficient means of lifting deep water (8'-30') to the surface and aiding in destratification. Destratification is great for overall water quality improvement in deeper, larger bodies of water.

I would like to know if some of the diffused aeration folks have SAE ratings for their products. It would also be interesting to know how SAE ratings are influenced by factors such as water depth, type of diffuser, size of bubbles, etc.

In my opinion, diffused air systems are not as useful in small shallow ponds. They can move water vertically in an efficient manner, but do they add significant amount of oxygen to the water and are they capable of overcoming a significant oxygen depletion? I have clients who have had plankton crashes resulting in fish kills, even with diffused aeration in place. Hopefully we have resolved this by using diffused air in combination with surface aeration.


It's ALL about the fish!
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 904
Likes: 12
O
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
O
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 904
Likes: 12
For clarification, SOTR is kg oxygen produced per hour, and SAE is kg oxygen produced per kilowatt x hour.

From Pond Aquaculture Water Quality Management, Table 7.5

Paddle wheel. Range of SOTR = 2.5-23.2, avg SAE = 2.2
Propeller-aspirator-pump. Range of SOTR - .1-24.4, avg SAE 1.6
Vertical Pump (surface aerator or agitator). Range of SOTR .3-10.9, avg SAE 1.4
Pump Sprayer. Range of SOTR 11.9-14.5, avg SAE 1.3
Diffused Air. Range of SOTR .6-3.9, avg SAE .9


It's ALL about the fish!
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 939
M
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Hall of Fame
Lunker
M
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 939
Originally Posted By: overtonfisheries
I think it is important for us to note and consider the efficiency of different aeration systems. SOTR (Standard Oxygen Transfer Rate). SAE (Standard Aeration Efficiency).

SOTR and Pumping Rates

Products that boost oxygen concentration most efficiently are paddlewheels and surface agitator type systems. Paddlewheels are used mostly on fish farms and are not very practical for pond owners. Surface agitators that pump water vertically are rated below paddlewheels in oxygen transfer efficiency, and they mix water vertically (limited to 8-10' depth) as well as horizontally. These surface agitators are practical, can be used for emergencies or run on a timer, and are readily available on the market. Diffused air systems have the lowest SAE values, but they are an efficient means of lifting deep water (8'-30') to the surface and aiding in destratification. Destratification is great for overall water quality improvement in deeper, larger bodies of water.

I would like to know if some of the diffused aeration folks have SAE ratings for their products. It would also be interesting to know how SAE ratings are influenced by factors such as water depth, type of diffuser, size of bubbles, etc.

In my opinion, diffused air systems are not as useful in small shallow ponds. They can move water vertically in an efficient manner, but do they add significant amount of oxygen to the water and are they capable of overcoming a significant oxygen depletion? I have clients who have had plankton crashes resulting in fish kills, even with diffused aeration in place. Hopefully we have resolved this by using diffused air in combination with surface aeration.


Great information and I've been wanting to ask the same type of questions but wasn't sure how to ask!!


Last edited by mnfish; 09/05/14 02:40 PM.
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,099
Likes: 22
R
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Hall of Fame
Lunker
R
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 7,099
Likes: 22
Todd, I agree with all your points on the various forms of aeration. My only question, or what I find hard to swallow is the SAE rating of oxygen transfer per kilowatt shown in the table. Also, that shows ratings for a WIDE range of paddle sizes and can be very deceptive when averaged like it was in that table (probably from 3HP to 50HP motors)...paddle wheels circulate large, flat bottom, shallow production ponds, and the big ones transfer a LOT of O2, but they make an electric meter spin like mad with high HP electric motors and amp draw! As you said, in a fish farm setting and the high density of fish, paddlewheels are a near must, and not very practical or aesthetically pleasing for most private pond owners.

I would also question the table results on whether the SAE ratings were measured using air stones, bubble hose, or membrane diffusers...I would think there would be a much wider range of ratings averaged (like in paddle wheels) between a .5mmlaser cut membrane diffuser than a bubble hose, because the membrane would move far more water than a bubble hose per CFM of air, and the kilowatts used.

I think Diffuser Express had some SAE and SOTR for their 1mm laser cut membrane diffusers used in industrial waste water settings.

I'd like to see some diffuser ratings and generally updated comparisons myself!

Edit: Since the bottoms and designs of sport fishing and production ponds are normally very different (production normally longer than wide, consistently tapered and shallow except for small draining areas, smooth and flat bottomed for seining; whereas sport fish ponds are very varied in depths with holes, humps, sharp drop-offs and with various structures placed in many areas)

I seriously doubt a paddle wheel would get any where near the SOTR and SAE ratings in a sport fish pond as the depth changes and structure would severely limit circulation except in the very uppermost parts of the water column. Just like membrane diffusers placed in only a couple places in a shallow production pond do not have the depth to generate enough circulation in the short water lift to be as effective as a paddle wheel.


Last edited by Rainman; 09/05/14 08:38 PM.


Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2
M
Offline
M
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2
This sounds like my scenario. 3/4 acre pond 10 feet deep in Kansas that came with the place I bought. I will not spend $1000 For hose, pump, diffuser. However I would like to try something.

Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1
G
Offline
G
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 1
I have a similar situation. I just posted a question asking for advice on a pond 1/4 acre or less 12 feet deep inverted cone shaped. I also will not spend that much. Let me know if you can find a more acceptable option.
Thanks

Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,183
Likes: 44
Offline
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,183
Likes: 44
If your not willing to spend a thousand dollars on an aeration system, your choices are very limited. It can be done, but your are in the DIY realm and on your own for the most part. Others have done it, and there are several threads here on our efforts, but saying you are not going to do something sets your boundaries.

Best of luck.


Brian

The one thing is the one thing
A dry fly catches no fish
Try not to be THAT 10%
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,794
G
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
G
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,794
Originally Posted By: gginspect
I have a similar situation. I just posted a question asking for advice on a pond 1/4 acre or less 12 feet deep inverted cone shaped. I also will not spend that much. Let me know if you can find a more acceptable option.
Thanks

Yes, a DIY bottom diffuser aeration system can be installed for much less than $1000 bucks if you want to take shortcuts that can be updated at a later date.

Bill Cody helped me achieve the same goal in our ~2 acre pond some 10+ years ago. The heart of the system is a ¼ hp Gast rotary vane air compressor and would be the greatest cost. We installed two membrane diffusers coupled with garden hoses weighted with bricks. Oh yeah, a pump cover made from an old Igloo cooler with no fan that is still functioning today with the same pump with no pressure loss.
Over time I have replaced membrane diffusers with Vertex air stations and installed weighted air lines.

With highflyer’s solar expertise and guidance, we are currently installing a solar powered 12 volt Kasco ¼ surface aerator in a small sedment pond.
I strongly recommend surface aerators for small shallow ponds, but that would exceed your exceed your budget limitatuion.

Pictures of DIY aerattion system below - good luck,
George Glazener








N.E. Texas 2 acre and 1/4 acre ponds
Original george #173 (22 June 2002)




Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2
M
Offline
M
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 2
Thank you for such quick and quality responses.
I've spent a couple hours reading this forum and a couple weeks over the last year searching on this topic. I may misunderstanding. I thought I read bottom diffuser was best for overall health of the pond?
But George makes a point that bottom diffuser is more affordable but for a small pond top is better?
Also there might be a couple days during waterfowl season that if I have open water when everything else is frozen I might have a shot at some geese. I also heard top water aeration freezes in the heart of winter?

Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 1
Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 1
FWIW A guy I know tried to sell me a rebuilt pump and a homemade "diffuser" for my pond. The pump was a 1/4 Hp Gast and the diffuser was a piece of 1/2 inch copper tubing bent in a rough 3 foot diameter circle with 1/8 inch holes drilled in it. He said he used to sell a bunch of them to guys in Southern Illinois to open water for geese season. Point of the story is there is also used equipment on the market and, IMHO, It really depends a lot on why you want to install aeration as to what you install.

Last edited by Bill D.; 02/11/15 08:27 PM. Reason: Clarification

[Linked Image]
Be Brave Enough to Suck at Something New!
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,420
Likes: 794
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Offline
Moderator
Ambassador
Field Correspondent
Lunker
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 28,420
Likes: 794
George, what is the price of that Gast pump in 2015 dollars?

Some cliff notes:

Bottom diffusion aeration systems, in ponds where a thermocline will set up in the summer, will ensure that O2 is all the way to the bottom of the pond. In areas that freeze, you want the diffuser in the winter to be set roughly 1/3 the total pond depth for the winter. See the latest issue of Pond Boss Magazine for an article on winter aeration.

Surface agitation will add O2 to the surface waters of the pond, but unless a draft tube is added to the agitator, that's where the oxygenated water will stay - at or near the surface. It wil not usually disrupt a thermocline. Surface agitators cost more to run to add O2 to a pond than a bottom diffuser system, depending on the water depth in the pond.

In summer, if the BOD is high, and the pond is deep enough to have a thermocline set up, running both systems at the same time is better than running one or the other.


www.hoosierpondpros.com


http://www.pondboss.com/subscribe.asp?c=4
3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 1
Offline
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 6,080
Likes: 1
Originally Posted By: esshup
See the latest issue of Pond Boss Magazine for an article on winter aeration.



Excellent article! Can't wait for part two. Coming this year? smile


[Linked Image]
Be Brave Enough to Suck at Something New!
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,794
G
Lunker
Offline
Lunker
G
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,794
Originally Posted By: esshup
George, what is the price of that Gast pump in 2015 dollars?

If I recall correctly, Cody's price was very reasonable and much less than any competitors that I contacted - bet they still are! grin
I do know his advice was and continues to be very valuable..

"In summer, if the BOD is high, and the pond is deep enough to have a thermocline set up, running both systems at the same time is better than running one or the other."
Experience is the best teacher... wink
G/

Last edited by george1; 02/11/15 08:33 PM. Reason: Experience


N.E. Texas 2 acre and 1/4 acre ponds
Original george #173 (22 June 2002)




Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 143
Offline
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 143
2nd to Bill Cody. He can hook you up at a very reasonable price. I don't even want to say how much without his permission.


"Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy, its inherent virtue is the equal sharing of misery."
Winston Churchill
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,318
Likes: 6
Ambassador
Lunker
Offline
Ambassador
Lunker
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 4,318
Likes: 6
Ask about Air and you get a LOT of OP's that's for sure! I remember when I first asked about air here and after all that I was told I was about as confused as I was before I asked the questions! Information overload!

I have a pond much like yours. Except mine is about 1 acre but it is about 8 feet maybe 9 tops.

Here is what I think and you can take it with a grain of salt of course cause I am nobody and I am sure not a pro of air!

I have been running air now going on 5 years bottom only! As you well know it gets pretty darn hot here in Arkansas also!! My 1 acre pond gets like bath water at times! Of course 2 air systems are going to be better than 1 if you can afford both I say go for it!!

But if I had to choose one I would go bottom! I have been on this site since 2009 I believe and out of all them years I have only heard of Georges scenario a couple 2 or 3 times. There may be more they just haven't said anything? Are you taking a chance sure heck we all are that's part of the game!

I do think sometimes though other things come into play. For example.

1. Texas lack of rain has not helped! (If you have a 1 acre pond with fish and now it's only a half acre you could be in big trouble)

2. If rain is not an issue you may very well just flat have to many fish in your pond and even with air they could die off.

3. I have heard of folks losing fish after a 4 or 5 inch rain cause it messes the water column up and there air was only running 12 hours a day or less not 24/7 and when it rained the air was off IE: not mixing!

4. You could have a plant die off in your pond and fish die??

Bottom line is you could lose sleep over what might can happen! But here is my honest opinion! If I HAD to choose one air setup?

Bottom diffuser station! Period. (If you can have both then I would do it!)

RC


The only difference between a rut and a Grave is the depth. So get up get out of that rut and get moving!! Time to work!!

Link Copied to Clipboard
Today's Birthdays
cro, HC1968
Recent Posts
Relative weight charts in Excel ? Calculations?
by esshup - 03/29/24 01:06 AM
pond experience needed
by esshup - 03/29/24 12:45 AM
New pond middle TN: establishing food chain?
by Bill Cody - 03/28/24 07:57 PM
Happy Birthday Bob Lusk!!
by FireIsHot - 03/28/24 07:33 PM
Working on a .5acre disaster, I mean pond.
by PRCS - 03/28/24 06:39 PM
Fungus infection on fish
by nvcdl - 03/28/24 06:07 PM
Can anyone ID these minnows?
by Dylanfrely - 03/28/24 05:43 PM
1 year after stocking question
by esshup - 03/28/24 04:48 PM
Yellow Perch Spawn 2024
by H20fwler - 03/28/24 04:29 PM
New 2 acre pond stocking plan
by LANGSTER - 03/28/24 03:49 PM
Paper-shell crayfish and Japanese snails
by esshup - 03/28/24 10:39 AM
Newly Uploaded Images
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
Eagles Over The Pond Yesterday
by Tbar, December 10
Deer at Theo's 2023
Deer at Theo's 2023
by Theo Gallus, November 13
Minnow identification
Minnow identification
by Mike Troyer, October 6
Sharing the Food
Sharing the Food
by FishinRod, September 9
Nice BGxRES
Nice BGxRES
by Theo Gallus, July 28
Snake Identification
Snake Identification
by Rangersedge, July 12

� 2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide

Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5