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#385596 08/20/14 11:57 PM
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I am new to this forum and I apologize for the lengthy post.

I have purchased a few acres south of Lincoln, Nebraska to build a house on and I want to build a pond. The primary objectives for the pond will be swimming and providing a nice view. I currently am not a fisher, but I assume I need fish for improved water quality. Also, my kids would enjoy fishing.

My pond design is shown on the attached pictures. My current design was developed based on the following:

-Water quantity. The pond area is approximately 4,000sf and the pond capacity at the maximum level is approximately 106k gallons and the 70k gallons. I plan to maintain a minimum operating depth of 8 feet using rural water and supplement the rural water with runoff from 1.2 to 2.2 acres (depending on what my neighbors do for grading). The maximum water level is 1.5 above the minimum operating depth. The volume of water that is contained by the settling basin upstream of the pond is approximately equal to the volume between the pond's min. op. level and the maximum level. I plan to minimize seepage by construction of 6" thick compacted clay liner using the native clay soil.

-Water quality. I plan to treat the runoff with a settling basin. The basin will drain into the pond with an 8" pipe. A flow reduction structure/trash screen will be included to keep debris out of the pond and keep the runoff in the basin for approximately 24 hours. To treat the water in the pond I plan to pump it through a constructed wetland filter. The wetland filter consists of to cells. Both cells will be 12' wide, have an 18" rock base, have an operating depth of 6" above the rock, and have numerous wetland plants. A submersible pump will be used to pump the pond to the base of the rock base in Cell #1. The water will be pumped to a perforated pipe to evenly distribute flow. I have chosen a pump that will pump at approximately 3,500 gph. This will cycle the pond through the filter in approximately 20-30 hrs depending on the pond level. Cell #1 will spill into Cell #2 and Cell #2 will spill into the pond. The total wetland area is approximately 450 sf. I also plan to plant wetland plans around the entire perimeter except for the beach area to help with water quality. I assume certain fish will help with water quality but I have no idea what fish I need.

My main questions are will my side slopes be stable and will my water quality efforts be adequate to keep algae away.

Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Attached Images
Pond plan view.jpg settling basin x-sect.jpg wetland x-sect.jpg X-Sect 1.jpg X-Sect 2.jpg
Last edited by RobbL; 08/26/14 10:51 AM. Reason: Improved image quality
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I noticed my image quality was poor so I updated them with higher quality images.

Any opinions on my pond construction plan would be greatly appreciated.

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Robbl,
I don't think the pondboss members held back because of the quality of the images. I think the images came through fine and the reposted ones are very clear.

I am a relatively new member and appreciated the help others gave me so I'm hoping someone will come along soon in the meantime I'll make a stab at getting started.

I think the problem is the complexity of the diagrams and the specifics of how far you are into your pond planning are overwhelming most of us average pond owners.

Probably the details you have put in here are at the level that only someone who builds ponds for a living could really weigh in on this. They also would probably need to have an hour long conversation with you about your goals, your budget, and what the consultant you are working with has taught you already.

We can't give much advice about your soil without seeing it or having it studied.

I never heard that fish add to water clarity, I've heard about fish muddying up the water.

Also there are some good threads in the archives that demonstrate the fact that it is hard to have a pond for swimming and yet have the required nutrients for good fishing. It seems swimming and fishing holes have different construction and different management.

Hopefully you can ask some followup questions and some pond builders can weigh in as well.

Last edited by canyoncreek; 08/26/14 03:52 PM.
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RobbL, I'll reply in red below, it's a bit easier for me to do it that way. Please check my math, it isn't my strong point.

Originally Posted By: RobbL
I am new to this forum and I apologize for the lengthy post.

I have purchased a few acres south of Lincoln, Nebraska to build a house on and I want to build a pond. The primary objectives for the pond will be swimming and providing a nice view. I currently am not a fisher, but I assume I need fish for improved water quality. Also, my kids would enjoy fishing.

My pond design is shown on the attached pictures. My current design was developed based on the following:

-Water quantity. The pond area is approximately 4,000sf and the pond capacity at the maximum level is approximately 106k gallons and the 70k gallons. I plan to maintain a minimum operating depth of 8 feet using rural water and supplement the rural water with runoff from 1.2 to 2.2 acres (depending on what my neighbors do for grading). 4,000 sq. ft. is 100'x40' That is 0.0918 acre. If the average depth is 8', then there will be 239,376 gallons of water in it at that average depth. (325,851 gal in an ac/ft of water)

The maximum water level is 1.5 above the minimum operating depth. The volume of water that is contained by the settling basin upstream of the pond is approximately equal to the volume between the pond's min. op. level and the maximum level. I plan to minimize seepage by construction of 6" thick compacted clay liner using the native clay soil. General pond building practice is to make an 18" to 24" thick clay liner consisting of 6" to 8" lifts of clay, each propery compacted with a sheepsfoot roller before adding the next lift.

-Water quality. I plan to treat the runoff with a settling basin. The basin will drain into the pond with an 8" pipe. A flow reduction structure/trash screen will be included to keep debris out of the pond and keep the runoff in the basin for approximately 24 hours. To treat the water in the pond I plan to pump it through a constructed wetland filter. The wetland filter consists of two cells. Both cells will be 12' wide, have an 18" rock base, have an operating depth of 6" above the rock, and have numerous wetland plants. A submersible pump will be used to pump the pond to the base of the rock base in Cell #1. The water will be pumped to a perforated pipe to evenly distribute flow. I have chosen a pump that will pump at approximately 3,500 gph. This will cycle the pond through the filter in approximately 20-30 hrs depending on the pond level. Cell #1 will spill into Cell #2 and Cell #2 will spill into the pond. The total wetland area is approximately 450 sf. I also plan to plant wetland plans around the entire perimeter except for the beach area to help with water quality. I assume certain fish will help with water quality but I have no idea what fish I need.

My main questions are will my side slopes be stable and will my water quality efforts be adequate to keep algae away.

Slopes steeper than 3:1 are difficult to walk out of, and create a pucker factor if they need to be mowed. Good clay soils can be stable at a steeper grade, but then you get into what the construction equipment can safely negotiate while compacting the pond basin.

Clay on the bottom of the pond can easily be put into suspension, and depending on the electrical charges in the water can take a very long or a short time to precipate out. Read
http://wildlife.tamu.edu/files/2010/04/4_Control_of_Clay_Turbidity.pdf for more information. If your goal is to have a swimming pond and not a fishing pond, then I would only stock Fathead minnows in the cells and a few Redear Sunfish in the main pond. I would also consider covering the clay bottom of the pond with sand or pea gravel to help prevent clay turbidity. Without going and digging thru my notes, I can't comment on the size of the filter cells.

Any comments or suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Last edited by esshup; 08/26/14 08:05 PM.

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Canyon,

Thank you for the response. Sorry for the complex diagrams (I can't help it - Its the engineer in me). To answer your questions:
- goals - clean swimming water with minimal chemicals and a nice view.
- budget - as much as my wife will allow (so that means a very limited budget for me, but I am excited to do a lot of work myself)
-consultant - I wasn't planning on working with a consultant. Just planning on learning all I can and applying it to my design.

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RobbL:

While a lot of this won't pertain to your pond, some will, and I believe it will help you in the design of your pond if you read it.

http://www.nrcs.usda.gov/Internet/FSE_DOCUMENTS/nrcs144p2_030362.pdf

Do you have heavy equipment, or access to it? How were you planning on digging and compacting the pond basin? It should be compacted from the highest projected water level down to the bottom of the pond.


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esshup,

Thank you very much for your response.

I used a CAD digital terrain model to calculate the volumes, so they should be accurate but I will have to do some hand calcs to double check.

I put the lower inside pond slopes at 2:1 so I could have a deeper center with less water volume. I am worried about keeping the pond full and how much I will need to supplement runoff with rural water. I was planning on only compacting the in place material with a excavator's sheepsfoot attachment. I will have to look at redesigning with 3:1 slopes for constructability of the 2nd and 3rd lifts of liner.

I planned on a settling basin to keep silt out of the runoff entering the pond, but hadn't thought of re-suspension. That is good to know. Would you cover the side slopes in pea gravel or sand or just the pond floor? How thick of a layer would be necessary? If it is place on the side slopes, would you compact the rock/sand into the clay? With the additional cost of the rock/sand plus the cost of constructing a clay liner, is a plastic liner a good option?

Thank you for the fish suggestions. I hadn't even thought of putting fish in the wetland cells. Is 6" of water enough for them?

If anybody has any thoughts on wetland filter sizing and rock depth in the filters, I am all ears.

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esshup,

I noticed you responded while I was typing. Thank you for the NRCS guidance document, I hadn't found that.

I haven't decided if I will be constructing the pond myself or not. I thought about renting the equipment to do it, but I am nervous I won't be able to do a good job with construction. In my job I work with dirtwork contractors building projects I designed, but I don't have experience running heavy equipment. As much as I would love to learn to run an excavator, I am leaning towards hiring somebody for the dirtwork.

I planned to use, or have somebody use, an excavator for excavation and fill and sheepsfoot attachment for the excavator for compaction.

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Originally Posted By: RobbL
I haven't decided if I will be constructing the pond myself or not. I thought about renting the equipment to do it, but I am nervous I won't be able to do a good job with construction. In my job I work with dirtwork contractors building projects I designed, but I don't have experience running heavy equipment. As much as I would love to learn to run an excavator, I am leaning towards hiring somebody for the dirtwork.

I planned to use, or have somebody use, an excavator for excavation and fill and sheepsfoot attachment for the excavator for compaction.


By the overall sound of it, I think you might want to consider hiring one of those guys you work with. Pick one that seems to listen to you, does a good job, and you get along with. Even if you rent equipment for them to run it, pay them by the hour, you probably will be better off. Unless of course you want to do it yourself for the "fun of it", but don't expect it to be right when its done(takes a long time to learn how to run equipment 'well') and it might even cost more.

On the settling ponds I can't give any help. I only have very limited experience with doing some for myself. It seems like you would need to clean them out once in a while. At least that's what happens to me. Considering that, it would affect how they are built too. I suppose it all depends on a lot of variables.

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Take a look at coring the dam instructions. Also called building a key way. If you just pile dirt to catch runoff, it will always leak under the dirt pile. Also, dozers do a lousy job of packing soils. For that you need a sheeps foot roller.


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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If it's a swimming pond, I'd cover the floor wherever feet will be disturbing the clay. How thick? I'd plan on 6" or so. If on a slope, a berm will be needed at the lower edge of the sand/gravel to help prevent slippage to the deepest part of the pond. FHM can live in shallow water.


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Rob, Without fish, what will you do for mosquito larvae control?


It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

Without a sense of urgency, Nothing ever gets done.

Boy, if I say "sic em", you'd better look for something to bite. Sam Shelley Rancher and Farmer Muleshoe Texas 1892-1985 RIP
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Dave,

Will the FHM and sunfish be adequate to keep mosquitoes controlled? Its not that I don't want fish, its just that fishing isn't much of an objective for the pond. I also plan to have a large amount of wetland plants that will hopefully attract dragonflies that will eat the mosquitoes.

esshup,

I plan to have a beach area that will be sand and that should be the only area feet will touch the pond. Will wave action also cause re-suspension issues?

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Originally Posted By: RobbL
Will wave action also cause re-suspension issues?


Possibly.

Go to the "muddy water" section and read the thread "Alum kicks clays butt". That might be something that you have to do to your pond.

Once your pond fills, get a test kit so you can check for alkalinity, hardness & pH. Knowing those things will help you keep your water quality in check.


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Without a predator, you will have too many due to their spawning. I would go with several hundred hybrid bluegills. Buy some fish food and you will have a ball watching them eat.

Last edited by Dave Davidson1; 08/28/14 06:32 AM.

It's not about the fish. It's about the pond. Take care of the pond and the fish will be fine. PB subscriber since before it was in color.

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I have a nice swimming pond, and trust me, you will want fish for skeeter control. It is the only place on our property with low mosquitoes thanks to the fish. The dragonflies would have to be very thick to even put a dent in them, and for the most part they only go after bugs actively in flight. Mosquitoes for the most part are sitting on plants, whereas the larva are great moving targets to the fish.

I would put in yellow perch to control snails and leeches, fat head minnows to help with mosquitoes and feed the perch, and perhaps some walleye to keep the perch and FHM in check. The advantage is the WE shouldn't breed in a normal pond, so you wont have much management to do on the fishing numbers. Buy feed-trained perch, and they make good pond and fishing companions but stay out of the way when swimming.

Any sunfish will like to take adventurous nibbles on interesting exposed body parts if you sit still in the water long enough. They can be a little annoying, but fun when they come up to you.

Also think how cool it is to snorkel and see your living aquarium! When our water was ridiculously clear this summer, I sat for quite some time with my face mask and snorkel on watching my fish come up to me and check me out. Pretty cool!


Last edited by liquidsquid; 08/28/14 03:39 PM.
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liquidsquid,

Thanks for the fish info. Good to know about the sunfish. My wife is unsure about swimming with the fish. Not sure why because we swim at the lake all the time, but fish that will approach the swimmers won't thrill her. Where is the best place to get fish? Did you get yours locally or online?

Also, how is your pond laid out? What are the keys to keeping it so clear?

Thanks to everybody for all the info. I really appreciate it!

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The key to good swimming water is low nutrients, which makes for a not so good fishing hole. A little desirable plant life also helps like lilies and other plants. They will absorb nutrients out of the water keeping it clearer.
Right now we have about 4 feet of visibility due to heavy rains we had earlier this summer washing some extra nutrients in causing me a bloom. The fish like it though, I just wish it happened when the fish were babies.
So when your pond is built, make sue to not line it with topsoil or, fertile soil. Don't fertile anywhere near it either, ever.

Oh, I purchased my fish from a local dealer; Fingerlakes Aquaculture.
Good luck!

P.s. we had friends over today with kids and swam most of the afternoon while consuming some very good custom beers. Ton of fun! You will love it, way better than a chlorine sterized pool.

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ls, kids swimming and drinking beers - gotta love it!
Brings back some great memories… smile


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I'm not sure if you ever completed this project, but I'd recommend doing a liner for the wetland area. And maybe even deeper gravel beds, like 3-5ft...the first bed will be your filter, the second won't do much but maybe de-nitrify some if it's deep enough. Search for deep substrate bed on the internet to find more, but basically the water won't be circulating in the deeper section of the 2nd bed, it will go anoxic and nitrogen gas will be released....flow rates have to be pretty low for effective denitrification, so it won't be optimal for it but will do some.

If you go with fish, avoid bluegills and their hybrid counterparts for swimming ponds....they have a tendency to find nipples and moles very attractive for tasting (especially if they are hungry because they live in a cleaner swimming pond). I'd stick with Yellow Perch, they won't go anywhere near swimmers during the day.


Best regards,

MT

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Save me, O God! For the waters have come up to my neck. - Psalm 69:1

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