Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Soil questions NRCS Recommendations

I am new to the site, looking for advice about pursuing a pond. I have a 5 acre area of wooded land on my residence in East Texas. I have land on either side of a low spot that has a small creek running through it. I believe there is likely a natural spring because there is always water flowing in it although only a little. I had someone with the Natural Resources Conservation Services come out to look at the site because it seemed to be a great spot for a bass fishing pond. Runoff analysis showed it would receive plenty of water and the 1st guy thought there was enough clay in soil specimens he examined over about 45 minutes but he didn't seem to certain. I was lost to follow up with them and months later 2 other guys came out to look at the site. They struck me as being more confident and experienced than the first guy, dug for some soil sampling, and quickly determined by this, analyzing the look and foliage on the site, and prior evaluations they had done in my area that the site would be a bad choice for a pond because the soil is too sandy and leaking and silting in would be a continual problem. I really would like the pond and I am considering consulting with someone else, such as a pond builder for another opinion, including considering bringing in clay from somewhere else. Of course, I'm concerned that a pond builder could have a financial interest and this would affect his objectivity. Should I trust the NRCS and give up on the dream or consult with someone else?

It all depends on your pocketbook and how badly you want it.

There's all sorts of ways to put ponds in areas where they usually wouldn't go, but they require some creativity.

1) If the soil is sandy, and won't hold water, the only option that I think is viable is a) bring in enough clay to seal the pond from high waterline to lowest point in the pond. That means having enough good clay to pack 18"-24" thick or b) use an EDPM liner.

2) If you don't seal the pond, you have to have a well that has enough capacity to overcome the amount of water leaking out of the pond on a daily basis.

I have a pond dug in sandy soil. The water table is relatively high, anywhere from 6-7 feet below grade to less than 3 feet below grade. I dug my pond 22' deep in the deepest spot, and my pond level will bounce that much from Spring to Winter, leaving 12' or so of water in the deepest part. I plan on dropping a well to keep it full, although I'm dreading the electric bill. FWIW, 25 gpm is not enough to overcome the amount of water that leaks out of my pond.

how big of a pond do you want?

Esshup mentioned the liner, It might be worth looking in too.

Hi Pondwish, welcome to PB and the right place to get info on your future pond. I am a fellow east Tx. guy and have a pond.
Since I am a novice and we have so many here with knowledge,experience, training and expertise, I will leave the technical advice to them.

From what I know about East Tx. land the first thing you may want to be sure of is you have some clay or access to some clay(good clay). There are many dirt guys in our area who can get you some clay,but it will not be cheap. The dirt guys would need to give you a bid on how many loads it would take for the size pond/hole you are planning. If you are not planning on taking out very many trees you will need the dug out dirt hauled off and that of course would be an additional cost.

The other thing that struck me when I read your post, was you mentioned you had a creek/spring that at the least trickles through the low spot. As you read through threads and posts on PB, you will find that it can be good and bad. Good if the water can run by you pond or around and bad if you cannot find the source for the simple fact that under most(not all) cases the water pressure from the filling full pond will actually in many cases push back through the spring or seep area, so you end up with a pond that will not hold water or even worse a leak down stream of the dam where the water from the pond just shows up. It is not always the case but can happen and cause a big headache for you if it does happen.

Many of the guys and ladies on here recommend Otto's Dirt Service because he is a real pond builder,not just a dirt guy. He as well has helped many on here with advice.

None has asked, but if you could post a Google earth picture of the pond area or good camera pics, others may be able to give you better advice as to the route to take.

In East Tx because of the rolling hills and alluvial sands you could have plenty of shallow clay or none(not Common). The water table in most of east TX except for the few outcrop areas the water table is typically 40 to 80 ft. for the queen city aquifer. That is a general statement but the point is if you have a leak of any kind it could push into the queen city aquifer. It would show up most likely, I would guess, when you are digging, but might not, with out a really good clay liner like Esshup was suggesting,you might end up with a leak.

I do not want to put words in Esshups mouth or yours for that matter, but the bottom line here is,if you take the time to know what you have before you spend too much digging, filling,leaking,draining and starting all over again,and try to get it right the first time, it will really be cheaper.

You started off right by coming here first and asking those who know. That said, take my comments with a grain of salt because they are just what little I have seen with my pond.

Good luck and keep us informed of your progress and welcome to the site.

I think I might use a backhoe to do a soil sample. Digging around the top of the ground doesn't tell you very much where it counts.

Pondwish,
If you give us a general area in East Texas, we have very knowledgeable folks here that will give you more targeted advise. Pictures are worth 874 words approximately....having the right dirt on your property is cheeper, but you would be surprised to see what a real dam builder can so. Also consider bentonite as a filler for your dam if needed.


Do you know how tall a dam you want/need? How long? Are you planning on taking the soil from the pool area? Do you have the ability to take a few samples?

As you can see, there are a lot of questions to be asked, go slow and do it right the first time. And what ever you do, don't use the free fish guy to stock your pond. Ask around here for reputable sources of fish after your pond is built!!

Welcome!!

I added 2 aerial images to my original post. Unfortunately, I couldn't get my pictures on because they were too large even when I put them in a zipped folder.

My place is located just south of Highway 80 in between Longview and Hallsville. Thanks to everyone for your advice! I'm thinking I will give Otto's Dirt Service a call.

Pondwish, I went through a scenario similar to yours at my farm in SW Mississippi. About 5 years ago the local NRCS rep came out with his hand auger and took some samples within the 6 acre area I was considering for an embankment pond. His summarized reply was "Well, if you were going to build a pond here, I wouldn't consider going into partnership with you". So I shelved the notion for a few years. Then I took 15 soil samples with a geo-probe in 2013; some 8' deep, others 12' deep. Cost me about $3K, but was a great investment. The geo-tech firm was confident I had enough good clay to manipulate that would result in a pond that would hold water well enough. Had a couple areas with sandy soil, and the area of my core trench that had good clay, but only down to about 7' below existing grade, which dictated my core trench will only be about 5' deep, so the sandy soil below 7' deep wont be encroached upon.

Then I consulted Mike Otto and several local pond contractors, who all believed my plan was sound. Annual rainfall is around 65" and my watershed is 39 acres. Selected contractor late last year and just started stripping top soil early last week and will start core trenc tomorrow, when Mike Otto will make a site visit. I am an industrial contractor and my Pond Contract is very specific about the pond contractor's obligations and responsibilities. Core trench and "capping" fill specs (clay content), means of compaction (6" lifts and roller compactor, damn and bank slopes, soil erosion control, etc are all well defined.

So in summary, the NRCS rep basically recommended not to build pond but upon gathering of more data, consulting with experts like Otto, geotech firm, and others, I made a more informed decision to proceed. It cost me a few shekels, but I believe was a good investment. I should ultimately know in the coming months if my decision (& selection of contractor) was sound or not. Saying plenty of prayers too!!

Feel free to let me know if I can share anything else from our similar situations that may help in your process.

Nice reports guys. Otto has the touch with dirt and sees/thinks of things others miss.

It's been awhile, but I had 3 pond builders come look at my site. 1 walked through the creek and found some good clay in the base right away. The others suggested digging with a backhoe and I went with 1 of them who says I have good clay 4-7 feet deep so I'm going for it. I have a friend who even is going to have a lot of the topsoil shipped to his place where he needs it. The builder has cleared some trees and will do some more then shoot the laser to see where the dam and shoreline will be then see how deep he can go with the clay because I would like to have some deep water thinking this will be better for the fish. How important is it to have 15-20 foot water for bass? How will we know if the spring is going to be a problem and not an asset? Shall I plan on putting some bentonite in the dam or wait and see how it holds or what the builder thinks about the clay? I have Ray Scott's "Guide to Building Great Small Waters" and I'm planning on using his ideas for building structure, stocking, etc..; does he give good advice on his video? Anyone know if individuals can buy Sharelunker fry in TX? Or a good place to get FL strain bass in East Texas?

Otto also has a new book "Just Add Water" from the Pond Boss Store.