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As many of the regulars know, I've had a love-hate relationship with channel catfish forever. I love to eat and catch them -- when I can. They are feed hogs (at least I think they might be...). They get hook smart, and stay that way from a young age.

For the last several weeks I've been trying to outsmart and cull what I figure are mostly 4-year old channel catfish from my main pond (0.7 acres/9ft max depth, 5 ft ave depth). I've been getting 3-4 per week between 18 and 26 inches, all at Wr's of real close to 1.00. I figure I've got another 8-12 to get.

Interestingly, their Wr (relative weights) have all been extremely close to 1.0! This evening's CC was 22 inches and 4.7 lbs. I got a 26 inch CC two nights ago that was 8.3 lbs. Five nights ago I got a 19 inch CC that was 3.1 lbs.

In my love-hate relationship, I'm now re-thinking that they may not be out-eating my bluegill. This season, I've decided to hand feed my two main ponds so I can get an idea of who is coming to dinner. I hand feed, large handfuls at a time, to eating satiation. In the main BG/LMB pond where I want to remove the catfish, this takes 10-15 minutes, and is pretty consistent at 17-18 oz. of 38% protein feed. The smaller 1/3 acre HBG/CC pond takes 20-30 minutes to reach satiation, at about 24-26 oz. of the same 38% protein feed.

I'm trying to eliminate the channel cats in the main pond because my bluegill are not growing to the size I want. I see some really big bluegill at feeding time, but for about the last three years I have been getting a pretty consistent catch range of 3-inch to 8-inch bluegill, with an occasional 10 - 13 inch fish. These larger sizes were fairly typical a few years ago, along with a good cross section of smaller BG sizes. In general, I was catching a lot more fish per hour in this pond a few years ago. I'm thinking the CC are part of the problem. Food competition at feed time may be another factor. For the last several years I have maintained a great over-abundance of LMB in the 6-10 inch size in this pond. I can probably catch 10 of them for every bluegill I catch.

In previous winters I've usually added golden and rainbow trout to the main BG/LMB pond (it has some crappie also, but I catch less than 10 per year).

This past winter I put the trout in my smaller HBG/CC pond. I got nearly none of the trout back this spring because of the aggressive nature of the HBG. The HBG will grab a lure or baited hook before anything else even has a chance to realize it is in the water. I believe that all of the trout succumbed to low oxygen/high water temperatures before I had a way of getting them out of that pond.

I'm beginning to second think my planning. I just don't know where to aim these second thoughts. I want good fishing for kids. I want good fishing for elderly/handicapped. I want fishing for me. I love to cook and garden, and I want to share the harvest with my guests.

I enjoy my fishing experiences with the HBG, CC, BG, and LMB in that order. As for eating, I wish I had more Hybrid Striped Bass (I think I'm down to one in each pond), but they are really difficult to find in this area. The rest of the fish are all good fun to catch and eat. They are probably really good for my guests.

No more trout, at least for several years.

Retired life is really good these days. But, I'm perplexed as it relates to the future of my ponds.

Ken

P.S. My lower pond is 0.7 acres and about 25 years old, with a present maximum depth of about 9 feet, and an average depth of 5 feet. It has lots of stunted LMB (my preference), too many channel cats, plus a reproducing supply of white cats and black crappie, and a good range of BG -- it just seems there aren't as many as there should be.

My upper pond is about 0.35 acres and three years old. We built it three seasons ago. The dam was built to easily accept a 45-foot handicapped bus. The pond has steep sides and a flat maximum depth of about 7 that is about 25' wide x 150' long so that we can easily seine it with a 20 foot seine if we drop its level to about 3 feet. It has three class years of 100 each, HBG. It received about 25 4-inch catfish two and three years ago. The first year stocking also included 25 redear sunfish of dubious ancestry. Last season I added six 4-6 inch SMB and one 18-inch hybrid striped bass. Because of HBG spawning, I added six 6-8 inch LMB this season.

Last edited by catmandoo; 07/25/14 08:32 PM.

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Very thoughtful and interesting post Ken. It is interesting to me because I can see myself potentially having the same type problems two or three more years down the road. I hope to learn from your experience so to possibly avoid some mistakes.

Do you feed all floating feed? I imagine you do if you are observing consumption to determine when to stop feeding. With sinking feed no way really to tell.

I have never seen a CC eat in my pond except for seeing a few come close to the shore when they were about 6" long a month or so after stocking. I think my BG get all the floating feed and the CC have never learned to come to the surface. I feed about half sinking feed and just assume the CC are getting some of it (although I can see the BG also going after it as it sinks). I try to throw an extra amount of sinking off the dock part of the time in a quantity too large for the BG to consume quickly into about 5' water specifically for the CC. Problem is with sinking food, no way to tell if it is being wasted. I suspect not because I can throw bait out in that area and usually catch CC. The other thing about my feeding, although nothing other than "gut feel", I see no way (other than at some time the fish are off feed) for the amount of feed I'm feeding that there are not enough fish in the pond to clean it all up. Heck, just my FHM's would probably eat what I put out if given the chance. I only feed two gallon max and in this hotter weather only about a gallon a day in a three acre pond. Spread out so much, I'm more supplemental feeding rather than really feeding. The feed on the surface is cleaned up before I drive back around the pond again. Not sure what a gallon of the feed weighs (sinking is heavier than the floating).

Keep us informed on what you do and the results. I'm interested.


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Interestingly, the CC I've recently been harvesting had their stomachs filled with the floating pellets I use. No bugs. No small fish. Yet, I've caught most of them on live creek chubs, small sunfish, or the big scary worms from my compost piles.

I generally always use the same 38% protein 1/8-inch floating pellets from a local supplier because I've had so many issues getting Aquamax. The little fish and the big fish seem to like it.

This part works well, so I probably won't change my feeding.

I just don't know what will be best for each pond, plus something that will be good for my brain and happiness.

Ken


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Ken, maybe it's time to invest in a modified fyke net? I've caught both CC and RBT in a fyke net when doing population studies in a pond.

I prefer the modified to a regular because it won't roll around on the pond bottom, and it's easier to tell whether the top side is actually "up" or if it rolled as it was getting placed in the water.


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What Esshup said is interesting about the fyke net catching both RBT and CC. It also reminds me of that advertiser that was here for a short while with the CC trap. It was that big cage out on a boom that feed would drop into, the CC get used to that, and one day you close the door on them. It might let you keep raising CC, but control them more effectively?

I know what you mean with the trout too. Everybody says they are easy to catch, but I had setbacks much the same way as you are mentioning. I have learned 4 or 5 different approaches to catching them, all revolving around what I don't want to catch at that time, which also goes in hand with what part of the season it is.

I have CC in the pond, and am wondering what their impact on the BG population is. My size range of 3 -5" BG is non existent, and have been wondering if the CC are partly responsible. The CC are about 16" in size. Like you, I don't know how to really determine it. When I catch some, I will find out what they have been eating. The first year I would see them at the feeder. They would come in from the depths and scour the bottom as they came in till they got to shoreline. Then they started to surface feed later in the year. This year, don't see them at all. Sorry that this really don't help you out much.

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Originally Posted By: esshup
Ken, maybe it's time to invest in a modified fyke net? I've caught both CC and RBT in a fyke net when doing population studies in a pond.

I prefer the modified to a regular because it won't roll around on the pond bottom, and it's easier to tell whether the top side is actually "up" or if it rolled as it was getting placed in the water.


Scott -- I did a number of internet searches on fyke nets. Are your referring to the D-shaped nets?

Anyway, you've got me seriously thinking about springing for one. I don't know what is happening in my main pond.

I no longer really have an idea of what is in it. I'm not seeing any YOY this season. But, I can see a number of spawning beds that look like they were used. I had pretty high and turbid water into early July, so I couldn't see what was going on in the spawning areas.

Probably because of the catfish, my water remains rather turbid. However, this time of year I usually seed many schools of different age YOY in the pond edge weeds in that pond. I'm seeing any. My put-and-take HBG/CC pond is full of YOY from yolk sac to about 1-inch -- probably from the trash fish I got a few years ago. (I've recently been adding 5-7 inch LMB to that pond)

I also don't have a clue where the fish go in the main pond when they hide. I have a portable Humminbird side-scanning fish finder that seems to work pretty well. There were a couple of days last week when I scoured the entire pond and got extremely few hits. I was also using some lines baited with fresh worms. Absolutely nothing.

That evening at feeding time, the usual crew showed up to eat, and fish finder was going crazy when attached to the end of my dock. So, I know the fish finder is working.

Minnow traps baited with cheese, bread, fish pellets, etc., have brought in nothing.

Oh well.


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Ken, I put up pictures and a description of the Modified Fyke Net.

Modified Fyke Net


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Ken, I already have an order in for 25 HSB and a friend is ordering 100. We both got HSB from this supplier last year with good results. He even delivered the 100 free of charge for my friend. 8-10" for $4. If you're interested I'll get you the info. Many of the HSB I stocked last year are pushing 16" and a blast to watch at feeding time.

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Originally Posted By: CJBS2003
Ken, I already have an order in for 25 HSB and a friend is ordering 100. We both got HSB from this supplier last year with good results. He even delivered the 100 free of charge for my friend. 8-10" for $4. If you're interested I'll get you the info. Many of the HSB I stocked last year are pushing 16" and a blast to watch at feeding time.

Time to get out the fly rod Travis!
Congrats on the HSB.
My season is closed until water cools.
George



N.E. Texas 2 acre and 1/4 acre ponds
Original george #173 (22 June 2002)




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Originally Posted By: CJBS2003
Ken, I already have an order in for 25 HSB and a friend is ordering 100. We both got HSB from this supplier last year with good results. He even delivered the 100 free of charge for my friend. 8-10" for $4. If you're interested I'll get you the info. Many of the HSB I stocked last year are pushing 16" and a blast to watch at feeding time.


Travis -- yes, I'm very interested. The size sounds perfect, and the price ain't bad. I have a good aerated tank to transport them, so I could come down to your area to meet the supplier, or even as far south as Richmond. I just won't be available anytime next week, nor anytime around the 2nd week of October. Other than that, I'm ready -- unless we hit 90+ degree temps during the week we are supposed to get them.

Send me a PM with the details, and I think we can work something out.

Thanks,
Ken


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Originally Posted By: catmandoo
[quote=esshup]

Minnow traps baited with cheese, bread, fish pellets, etc., have brought in nothing.

Oh well.


Concerning minnow traps, I get widely varying results, and do not know why. For example, I was getting traps half full of FHM this spring. I could not believe how many were cramming in there (for stocking my forage pond). Then at other times I'm lucky to trap a half dozen. I move the trap around to different places, different depths, but have never been able to determine a pattern of "why?"

Sometimes they just seem more intent on getting into the trap for feed than others. I have two different traps and the metal one has a larger opening than the plastic one. Sometimes one will catch more than the other, sitting within ten feet of each other. No explanation.

As an aside, the one with the larger opening catches a lot of BG fry so I really have to watch it if I'm only wanting FHM. The one with the smaller opening will catch a very small BG fry once in a while, but nothing like the other one. I can tell when I got a bunch of BG because they sound like beating drums inside the trap. Been using the trap with the larger opening to remove small bullheads and GSF out of the old pond. Works great for that. Put in a shallow area and put out some feed so they get used to coming there, and a person can trap a lot of them.


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One thing that I found out with tube or barrel shaped minnow traps is that the trap needs to be placed with it's openings parallel to the bank, not with one opening pointed to deep water.

Water depth also plays a part. For FHM, I've found that traps placed in water that barely covers the traps to water that is 2', maybe 3' is best.

If I want to catch crayfish? Leave the trap over night and bait with fish or meat products. I have caught them in traps baited with pellets, but other bait works better.


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