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#383288 - 07/25/14 02:55 PM HYBRID BLUEGILL GROWTH CHART
KSBASS Offline


Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 222
Loc: Kansas
I have a pond that I stocked with 2-3 inch hybrid bluegill last year and feed every night. Some are 5 to 6 inches already. Is there a length chart for HBG. Just curious if I was above the scale becuz I want to grow some huge HBG.

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#383289 - 07/25/14 03:40 PM Re: HYBRID BLUEGILL GROWTH CHART [Re: KSBASS]
catmandoo Offline
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Registered: 08/08/06
Posts: 5680
Loc: Hampshire Co., WV
I think several of us may have to collaborate to put such a chart together. Besides a growth chart, we probably should have a Wr chart.

The HBG I put in a few weeks after we dug our one-third acre HBG/CC pond three years ago, included 100 1-2 inch HBG, along with 25 4-inch channel cats, and 25 2-3 inch redear sunfish (of dubious parentage -- and which I wish I wouldn't have put in).

Each spring, for the past two years, I've added 100 2-3 inch HBG. Fourteen months ago I added another 25 4-inch channel cats.

I've found what I expect is serious HBG offspring recruitment -- probably with the dubious RES, or maybe just their sisters. As a consequence, I added six SMB last summer that were 5-6 inches. I had a lot more recruitment this year, and I added six LMB that were 7-9 inches.

Just this afternoon, I used a minnow trap to get about a dozen of the offspring to use as catfish bait in my other pond.

The original three-year-old 1-2 inch HBG are now 7-9 inches, but they are very thick/heavy. Far more so than my typical 7-9 inch bluegill in my other pond, which have Wr's of about 1.0. If the HBG were pure strain bluegill they would probably have Wr of 1.3 to 1.5. The second year batch are in the 5-7 inch category. They too are very husky with similar Wr's compared to pure strain bluegill. This year's batch of 2-3 HBG was put into a cage for about six weeks before releasing them into the HBG pond. They were 3-4 inches at that time. They appear to be about 3-5 inches now (less than a month later).

But, as I said above, I'm seeing a lot of recruitment. I just don't know what kind of females are frequenting the nests of the HBG males. They could be female HBG, or they could be the questionable RES.

I've got a bunch of 1 to 1-1/2 inch YOY in an aquarium to see if I can identify them. I'll post pictures in a few weeks as they get bigger.

The channel cats have grown like crazy. I may actually have to drain the pond down next spring and seine some of them out because of their aggressiveness at feeding time (I was hoping they would reduce recruitment). It would also be a good time to take out any large LMB or SMB, in case they have gotten too big. I'd move them into the BG/LMB pond. The few LMB and SMB I've recently caught in the HBG/CC pond have Wr's in the 0.7 to 0.8 range, so I'm not sure they are doing their jobs.

Anyway, I'd like to see what others are experiencing with HBG growth, and what they figure are reasonable Wr's.

Ken


Edited by catmandoo (07/25/14 03:47 PM)
Edit Reason: Grammar and 2nd Thoughts
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#383292 - 07/25/14 03:54 PM Re: HYBRID BLUEGILL GROWTH CHART [Re: KSBASS]
sprkplug Offline
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Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6945
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
I have never run across a relative weight chart for HBG. At this time, I am collecting data from various pondowners across the country in an effort to compile some type of standard where HBG are concerned, but it will be a lloooong time before I have anything available.

In the meantime, I use a chart meant for BG. It's the closest thing I can come up with.

_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

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#383296 - 07/25/14 04:18 PM Re: HYBRID BLUEGILL GROWTH CHART [Re: KSBASS]
KSBASS Offline


Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 222
Loc: Kansas
When I stocked my HBG there were only fhm and gsh in the pond that were originally stocked the year before so tons of forage plus I feed every evening. Its been about a year since the HBG were stocked and they are pushing 6 inches some bigger than others but I Can't believe how fast they grow and how big they are in one year. After how many years do they quit growing? 2 lbs is goal for these!

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#383300 - 07/25/14 06:18 PM Re: HYBRID BLUEGILL GROWTH CHART [Re: KSBASS]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4926
Loc: SE Kansas
Mine were also about that size at the one year mark.

Some 7". Lots of 5-6". They were stocked March 2013 along with FHM (same time, pond half initial full) and were also fed pretty regularly (by hand). I think it was April 2014 when I caught several 7 inch, both regular BG and HBG. Was not supposed to have any hybrids but a few sneaked in. Maybe 5 out of a hundred (maybe less because they seem to be easier or more prone to being caught). One thing I have noticed about the hybrids is that they are "thicker", more like a GSF. So they tend to be "chunkier" and although I did not weigh for comparison I would assume the hybrids weigh more at the same length.

It appears the initial growth slows as what I can catch seem to be only nominally longer this summer. I've caught one RES 9" and a few BG at 8". That is the biggest. The bigger ones seem to be hard to catch this summer in the hotter weather. Or I just don't know how to catch them, which is likely since what little fishing I have done before this year was 50+ years ago then a couple years when my kids were young (catching little GSF). So I don't claim to be much of an angler. Makes me wonder why I even have fish! laugh I like feeding them better than fishing (fishing sucks when they are not biting but catching is kind of fun).
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#383303 - 07/25/14 06:43 PM Re: HYBRID BLUEGILL GROWTH CHART [Re: catmandoo]
snrub Offline


Registered: 10/05/13
Posts: 4926
Loc: SE Kansas
Ken, concerning the CC, I've wondered just how much forage fish they eat. My wife does more of the catfish fishing as I like to catch the BG. But oddly enough, I catch about as many CC as she does. I catch them on baits that I am reeling in that would normally be associated with catching small LMB or BG. So that tells me they are actively chasing moving targets or in other words, fish.

I've read that if CC are fed pellets they tend to be lazy and not forage for other food. I've yet to see a CC come up to the top of the water and get food. Not saying they don't, but not that I could observe. They have to be getting some that gets to the bottom (I serve up both floating and sinking feed) because they have been growing like crazy. Caught a couple the other night that must have been 15" at a year and a half from fingerling stocking (no measure with me frown ). So I think they have been getting at least some feed.

I scatter feed all the way around the perimeter of the pond and the small BG just murder it. Where the feed is spread over such a wide area, I wonder if the CC have never caught on to come to the surface because the BG clean the surface feed up so quickly. I don't feed at one spot and my feeding schedule is very sporadic (I do everything wrong crazy ). It looks like waves of tiny submarines coming towards the bank when I drive my UTV around to feed. The 4-5" BG act like a bunch of hogs coming to the trough at feeding time. Funny thing is, I don't see any of the big BG. Maybe they are there, but the small ones eat the majority of the surface feed.

So I have always wondered just how much feed my CC actually get, and how much their gains are based on eating small fish.

Had a massive FHM spawn this year, so maybe the big BG are content with eating half grown minnows.


Edited by snrub (07/25/14 06:44 PM)
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#383304 - 07/25/14 07:25 PM Re: HYBRID BLUEGILL GROWTH CHART [Re: KSBASS]
Bill Cody Offline
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Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12412
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Let's make a standard weight chart. This sounds like a very good project for the active members of pondboss forum. We could all start taking measurements and weights for HBG (bluegill x green sunfish) to create our own standard weight table. This is how the standard weights were originally determined for most of the fish species. Hundreds or thousands of fish were collected and the measurements of length and weight were taken usually during research projects. Then determine average for each size category was calculated.

Get your fish poles out, get a ruler and a food or postal scales, collect some bait and go fishing. Get your kids to help as a family project. Report back here with your results. There are members that will gladly tabulate the data.

Here are the first lengths & weights(ave) from the book (K.D. Carlander).
Total Lgn Weight
inches(mm) ounces (grams)
4.8 (124mm) 1.38 (41g)
5.3 (135mm) 2.0 (59g)
8.58(218mm) 11.3 (336g)


Edited by Bill Cody (07/25/14 07:49 PM)
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#383314 - 07/25/14 09:52 PM Re: HYBRID BLUEGILL GROWTH CHART [Re: KSBASS]
sprkplug Offline
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Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6945
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
The problem I'm running into is that most ponds I receive data from contain HBG that are on a feeding program. I was hoping to gather some info from populations that rely solely on natural forage, and compare them with fish that receive supplemental feed.

Here's some HBG data I have close at hand right now, on unfed fish:



11.25 in 1 lb 5 oz

11.125 in 1 lb 6.5 oz

10.5 in 1 lb 4 oz

11 in 1 lb 4.5 oz

10.25 in 1.005 lbs. approx 1 lb.

10.125 in 1.003 lbs. " 1 lb.

11.125 in 1.332 lbs. " 1 lb. 5 oz.

10.25 in .769 lbs. " 13 ozs.

10.125 in .761 lbs. " 12 ozs.

12.125 in. 1.670 lbs. " 1 lb. 10 3/4 ozs.

12.25 in. 1.790 lbs. " 1 lb. 13 ozs.


10.25 in. .785 lbs. approx. 13.5 oz.

11.25 in. 1.470 lbs. " 1 lb. 7.5 oz.

11.25 in 1.420 lbs. " 1 lb. 7 oz.

12 in 1.575 lbs. " 1 lb. 9.5 oz.

9.5 in. .904 lbs. " 14.5 oz.

I would be thrilled to hear from anyone willing to share their HBG stats. I will gladly share any and all info with the forum.




Edited by sprkplug (07/25/14 09:56 PM)
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

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#383315 - 07/25/14 10:00 PM Re: HYBRID BLUEGILL GROWTH CHART [Re: KSBASS]
sprkplug Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6945
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
Originally Posted By: KSBASS
When I stocked my HBG there were only fhm and gsh in the pond that were originally stocked the year before so tons of forage plus I feed every evening. Its been about a year since the HBG were stocked and they are pushing 6 inches some bigger than others but I Can't believe how fast they grow and how big they are in one year. After how many years do they quit growing? 2 lbs is goal for these!


My experience is that their growth will explode out of the gate, climb steadily and rapidly for 1.5 - 2 years, then slow dramatically. Ours tend to be a very heavy bodied fish, more so than our northern gills, and they will use that to their advantage on light tackle......they will pull like a freight train.
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

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#383318 - 07/25/14 10:08 PM Re: HYBRID BLUEGILL GROWTH CHART [Re: KSBASS]
FishFan Offline


Registered: 10/29/11
Posts: 84
Loc: Delaware
Those are some nice sized HBG if they are not on a feeding program.The HBG in one of my ponds are hand fed by myself so I'm not sure if you would like to have some lengths and weights taken or not.They range in size from about 2 - 10+ inches.

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#383319 - 07/25/14 10:14 PM Re: HYBRID BLUEGILL GROWTH CHART [Re: KSBASS]
sprkplug Offline
Ambassador
Lunker

Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6945
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
I would love to have some stats from you FishFan! I keep the fed vs. unfed data separate for now, so as long as I know which camp your fish are in, we're good.
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

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#383320 - 07/25/14 10:45 PM Re: HYBRID BLUEGILL GROWTH CHART [Re: KSBASS]
FishFan Offline


Registered: 10/29/11
Posts: 84
Loc: Delaware
This was caught this afternoon but is on the small side of the HBG in the pond. There are HBG and standard BG that gorge on pellets so I'll try to get some records of some catches of both types and all sizes .


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#383340 - 07/26/14 09:45 AM Re: HYBRID BLUEGILL GROWTH CHART [Re: KSBASS]
Bill Cody Offline
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Field Correspondent

Lunker

Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12412
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Fish Fan - the fish in your picture immediately above is of pure strain BG not a HBG. On you fish note the completely dark ear flap with no lighten or color margin along or around the back margin. HBG always have some sort of lighter margin or colored rear margin on the ear flap. Look closely at all the ear flaps of all the pictures of HBG in the link.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=256325#Post256325

Sprkplug - Remember all we are initially looking for is an average length weight relationship that we can apply to HBG in general. The current standard weight tables for the fish species are averages of thousands of fish from numerous habitat types with different food sources.

One problem we will have with this project is assuming all the participants will be able to accurately recognize a HBG. The data will no doubt contain various combinations of sunfish hybrids. However I think for 'starters' we just need to get a generalized data set for HBG that contains fed and unfed fish. Then later we can focus on separating the different forms or types of HBG. Initially it will help if the measurements can be separated into pellet fed and unfed fish.

A HBG that lives in a food shortage high competition pond will always be thinner bodied than a HBG that lives in a pond full of natural foods.


Edited by Bill Cody (07/26/14 10:00 AM)
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#383351 - 07/26/14 06:56 PM Re: HYBRID BLUEGILL GROWTH CHART [Re: KSBASS]
KSBASS Offline


Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 222
Loc: Kansas
I will go buy a small scale and start catching some and weighing and measuring. Me and my 3 year old daughter fish once a week and catch the HBG.

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#383356 - 07/26/14 11:22 PM Re: HYBRID BLUEGILL GROWTH CHART [Re: KSBASS]
FishFan Offline


Registered: 10/29/11
Posts: 84
Loc: Delaware
It might take me a bit to distinguish between the two.
Is this one a pure strain or HBG?


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#383358 - 07/26/14 11:34 PM Re: HYBRID BLUEGILL GROWTH CHART [Re: KSBASS]
sprkplug Offline
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Lunker

Registered: 06/02/08
Posts: 6945
Loc: Freedom, Indiana
Hybrid....
_________________________
"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.

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#383360 - 07/26/14 11:51 PM Re: HYBRID BLUEGILL GROWTH CHART [Re: sprkplug]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24028
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
Another way to tell is that pure strain never have yellow or orange margins on their fins.
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#383426 - 07/27/14 09:30 PM Re: HYBRID BLUEGILL GROWTH CHART [Re: KSBASS]
FishFan Offline


Registered: 10/29/11
Posts: 84
Loc: Delaware
I set out today to catch some HBG and caught about 30 gills but most were pure strain whether that's good or bad for a pond that's goal is big bass.

This one was 9 inches and weighed 12oz


This one was 9 and a half inches and weighed 1lb


They were weighed on a Berkley digital scale. I have a few pics of some chunky pure strains if anyone wants to see.

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#383428 - 07/27/14 09:42 PM Re: HYBRID BLUEGILL GROWTH CHART [Re: KSBASS]
Bill Cody Offline
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Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12412
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Nice big hybrids. Good job catching and reporting.
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#383458 - 07/28/14 08:41 AM Re: HYBRID BLUEGILL GROWTH CHART [Re: KSBASS]
KSBASS Offline


Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 222
Loc: Kansas
So me and my daughter went to the pond last night and caught and measured the following HBG. All of these fish were stocked last year about this time they are all one year old. They were stocked at 1 to 2 inches long. We caught 7 fish and they measured

1 at 5 3/4
1 at 5 7/8
3 at 6
2 at 6 1/8

These fish couldn't be any fatter. I need to buy a scale and weigh some.


Attachments
HBG2IMG-20140728-00007.jpg (303 downloads)
HBG 1IMG-20140728-00014.jpg (362 downloads)
HBG4IMG-20140728-00015.jpg (306 downloads)



Edited by KSBASS (07/29/14 09:08 AM)

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#383460 - 07/28/14 08:45 AM Re: HYBRID BLUEGILL GROWTH CHART [Re: KSBASS]
Bill Cody Offline
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Registered: 04/18/02
Posts: 12412
Loc: Northwest Ohio - Malinta OH
Very good growth. Those lengths of young fish would be very good for having the accompanying weights in ounces or grams.
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#383473 - 07/28/14 10:07 AM Re: HYBRID BLUEGILL GROWTH CHART [Re: KSBASS]
DNickolaus Offline


Registered: 01/26/14
Posts: 334
Loc: S Indiana
It would be a bit of extra work, but if I were to participate in this glorious endeavor, I wonder if my poor fish ID skills wouldn't require that pictures of each fish also be posted? This short thread already shows that folks might be reporting data for the wrong type of fish. Sure, the experts know what column to put the data in when they are holding the fish in their hand, but some others might have BG data in the HBG column. I just don't know how one goes back later to sort out data points for parameters that aren't reported or reported incorrectly.

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#383482 - 07/28/14 11:26 AM Re: HYBRID BLUEGILL GROWTH CHART [Re: DNickolaus]
esshup Offline
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Registered: 01/26/09
Posts: 24028
Loc: Grovertown, Indiana
Post pics! That way your fish ID skills will improve. Others might benefit from it as well.

The more fish you look at, and get positively identified, the better you will get at it, and the faster you will be able to ID the fish.
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3/4 to 1 1/4 ac pond LMB, SMB, PS, BG, RES, CC, YP, Bardello BG, (RBT & Blue Tilapia - seasonal).

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#383484 - 07/28/14 12:28 PM Re: HYBRID BLUEGILL GROWTH CHART [Re: KSBASS]
KSBASS Offline


Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 222
Loc: Kansas
I will try and post some pictures I have never posted pictures on here before it seems difficuly but I will try. I want you guys to see these fish!



Attachments
fish habitat IMG-20140526-00226.jpg (2008 downloads)



Edited by esshup (07/28/14 07:50 PM)

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#383485 - 07/28/14 12:52 PM Re: HYBRID BLUEGILL GROWTH CHART [Re: KSBASS]
KSBASS Offline


Registered: 06/01/13
Posts: 222
Loc: Kansas
Ok I think I figured it out guys. I will catch some fish tonite and try and get some pictures on here.


Attachments
HBG3IMG-20140728-00011.jpg (391 downloads)
HBG5IMG-20140728-00008.jpg (225 downloads)



Edited by KSBASS (07/29/14 09:10 AM)

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