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#382618 07/17/14 04:59 PM
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I have a small pond. It's not large, but I honestly don't know how big it is. Maybe a half acre? I'm told it is actually very deep as it was a small pond before a dam was built to make it deeper, but not a ton bigger. It's near a river in VERY rocky soil that's known to not hold water very well and yet it never goes down below the spill because it's got a natural spring feeding it (albeit at barely above what it needs, because it rarely has much more than a trickle running out during dry times, but there's always something).

It does have a pretty big runoff area feeding it as well, and some of that is horse pasture. Only about six horses and associated pasture, but enough to include some amount of manure runoff. And worse, a few months back we fertilized. Not long after, boom, the entire pond was covered with algae. And it's stayed that way for several months.

As far as fish life, it has (or had, I assume they're still there as we never saw any sign of a fish kill) a good many very large koi that the previous owner put in as well as an albino catfish that's about 4' long and a few other catfish we've seen.

So in trying to figure out how to get rid of the algae, I decided to first just try aeration. But I'm cheap, so I thought I'd try my own crappy fountain first. I have a few different pumps sitting around, including one shown in the video below. I glued up some PVC I had laying around so the pump would spew above water and submerged the pump. It's only about a foot down. I understand more might be better. I understand an air pump might be better. But will this help at all? Curious what folks think. It only took me an hour of time and some stuff I had laying around, but it's obviously consuming some pretty good electricity, too. Anyway, check out the video:



Let me know if "this is dumb" or "well, it might work...let it run and see." And if the latter, any estimation on how long it might take to see an improvement?


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WOW. You do have algae and lots of it. The homemade aeration is working and koi are working but neither are working to control the algae. Many think koi control algae - you can prove them wrong.

Bottom air driven aeration would be cheaper to operate and it would move more water per hour. I doubt very much that any kind of aeration will control that algae because aeration does not significantly reduce nutrients which is what is feeding that bloom. If anyone wants to sell you an aerator to control that algae - GET a money back Guarantee!. It does not appear to be filamentous algae (FA). Only examination by an expert will tell you exactly what kind it is. Once you know what kind it is that may help in dealing with it. Expect some other plant to replace it to utilize the available nutrients. An alum treatment may help for a year or two to reduce nutrients. Horse pasture and fertilization are nutrient sources.

The existing nutrients are locked into the pond ecosystem and will tend to be recycled not removed until nutrient laden biomass is removed or the pond is drained and sediment removed. Flushing (overflows) during high nutrient load periods does help remove some current dissolved nutrients. High water flooding can also flush floating algae. Several management methods could help clear away the algae, but expect it to return on a regular basis with ample nutrients trapped in the pond. Sorry I have no easy answers.

And yes, very deep can be 8 to 10 ft compared to 1 to 2 ft,,, depth is relative. You will not know until the actual depth is measured.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 07/17/14 07:40 PM.

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Thanks, good info. We've had it for 14 years now and this is the first time this has happened. We do occasionally get a big enough storm to put a pretty good flush on it, but just haven't had that since this started.

As for the "very deep" part, it's at least 12' deep for SURE. But I'm told it might actually be closer to 40' at the deepest spot. I don't buy that, but it is *possible*. I'll know next week as I've bought a portable fish finder and depth gauge. I have been wanting one anyway, and if I have to resort to more drastic measures then it'll be important to know for sure how deep this sucker is.

Anyway, thanks. How do I go about finding an expert to tell me what kind of algae it is?


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Donnie, you were just talking to the foremost expert that I know of. Bill is an algae taxonomist (I think I got that right). Send him a PM and inquire about his fees for identifying your algae, and ask him how to preserve the sample when it's sent.

Another way to find the depth of the pond is get a fishing rod, a slip bobber and a weight large enough to sink the bobber. Keep casting and adjusting the bobber until it barely floats, then measure the amount of fishing line from the knot to the weight.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 07/18/14 08:28 AM. Reason: spelling

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The plot thickens. Someone who looked at it who claims to know says it's not algae but is instead "duckweed" and that no amount of aerating will get rid of it. Hmmph.


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If you put some in a jar and post a photo Bill can easily tell the difference between algae and duckweed.

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Originally Posted By: Donnie Barnes
The plot thickens. Someone who looked at it who claims to know says it's not algae but is instead "duckweed" and that no amount of aerating will get rid of it. Hmmph.


--Donnie


Go here and look up the differences between duckweed and filamentous algae for yourself. (and maybe watermeal)


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I think it's watermeal (and I think my scoop got some algae). You guys tell me what you think:

Untitled by djb_rh, on Flickr

Untitled by djb_rh, on Flickr

You can click each one for high res versions. It seems smaller than the duckweed description to me. Seeing it in the water it definitely looks like a bazillion of these little specs, not a fluid mass and not hairy in general.


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It is duckweed. Duckweed aka small duckweed has single or multiple oval leaves (fronds) that have a single dangling root that absorbs the nutrients. Water meal has no roots.

Presence of duckweed or water meal indicates the pond is over enriched with organic nutrients. Duckweed often grows in our local drainage ditches that receive septic drainage.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 07/18/14 02:36 PM.

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Okay, what's the best way to control or get rid of it? Looks like tilapia, which I could pretty easily get for not a lot of money, would eat watermeal, but not duckweed. Is that correct? I'm fine with the tilapia dying in the winter if they've eaten all this stuff first. smile

Grass carp would do it, but I don't really want grass carp. Which would leave me with the chemical options. Any recommendations there?


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Donnie, tilapia will eat both duckweed AND watermeal, however with predators in the water, tilapia will avoid it for fear of getting eaten themselves. The best approach I have seen is to treat the duckweed (and watermeal which I see none of here) chemically. The tilapia, if stocked in the right numbers will consume most, if not all of the plant seeds that could reinfest the pond the next season.

Also, with predators in the pond...there is no massive die off of tilapia....most get eaten before dying and those too large for fish to eat in one gulp will get scavenged on by turtles, catfish, and all the terrestrial predators if they float up.



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The *only* fish I know to be in that pond are koi and catfish. I don't believe either would bother the tilapia, would they? There are a LOT of koi and some are VERY large. There are only a few catfish, I think, but at least one is very large.


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Maybe try angling for catfish using standard catfish methods that may not catch the koi. Without bass in the pond you could have lots of catfish and koi from reproduction and low predation. If the pond were mine in that condition, I would consider renovating the pond and start with the proper fish that includes an optimum combination that includes duckweed eating tilapia. Get some estimates for pond fish renovation.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 07/18/14 07:24 PM.

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If going the chemical route, I'd recommend Clipper. Check water pH because Clipper works best in water that is below 8.0 pH.


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Alright, my Internet research seems to indicate that the catfish *probably* won't eat the tilapia until it gets cold enough that they slow down, which won't be for a few months. Looks like in an AP tank they'd have a better time eating the tilapia, but not necessarily in a natural pond.

I don't really want to try to get "all" the catfish out of the pond. Never been a good enough fisherman to feel good about my chances of catching one, let alone feeling like I got them all! LOL. So I'm looking into the cost of some tilapia. A friend of a friend is supposedly a local tilapia farmer who sells to Whole Foods (sigh) and thus could hook us up. So checking into that.

Unless you guys tell me I'm crazy? Just seems like unless the tilapia cost me an arm and a leg, I'd rather try a natural solution.

Then the question is how many fish? The TAMU link says "15-20 pounds per area." What's the unit of area in this case? That seems to be a pretty vital piece of the puzzle.


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Try this for a measurement tool.

http://www.acme.com/planimeter/

For DW, you might have to go with a higher stocking density. Around here, we have to stock Tilapia at the rate of 40# per surface acre to have any hope of control.

Typically food fish Tilapia are mostly male, so there won't be much reproduction. If you can source 50/50 sex wise Tilapia, and you have reproduction, you will see better results. More mouths to feed.......

I'd try and stock fish that are 6"-8" in length. Large enough to avoid most of the predation by the CC, but not too large which give you more mouths per pound.


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So the TAMU page above also specifically calls out Mozambique Tilapia as the species for DW control. It doesn't say others won't do, just specifies the one. Anyone know if it matters that much which type?


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I hope Rex sees this. They say that because they are in Texas, and the only species of Tilapia that are legal to stock in ponds there are Mozambique.


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Donnie, I won't say Tilapia CAN'T eliminate your duckweed, but it will be far from a certainty when/if stocked. Tilapia are opportunistic feeders...they eat their favorite and least competed for foods first. Generally, that is FA (filamentous algae) first. Second is usually chara (if present) and detritus (leaves, dead fish and other decaying organic matter) on the bottom. After those are gone, they will move to higher forms of plant life such as grasses, primrose, etc.

They WILL eat small amounts of duckweed while more favored foods are available, but they don't like being vulnerable to being eaten and prefer sticking to cover until they are too large for predators to eat.

The only pond I stocked that my Blue Tilapia actually eliminated duckweed in was unique, and some luck was involved too. I stocked 600, 3-5" sexually mature fingerlings (effectively a 700+ pound/acre stocking rate) as there were NO other fish in the pond. Before a huge, heavy 10" rain came and flushed out the pond, tilapia could be seen eating the duckweed, but the plant reproduces faster than tilapia could eat it. The rain came down so hard and fast, it flushed out all the floating duckweed...it never returned because the Tilapia had consumed every bit of bottom detritus and all the duckweed seeds in it. The bottom of the pond pool was entirely devoid of all plant live, detritus and muck...as if it had just been dozed and built

In ponds where the Tilapia rate is increased at least 100% to 80 pounds/acre, AND chemical is used properly, tilapia can take out the seed stores in the detritus/muck and help eliminate repeat chemical treatments.



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Interesting event Rex. Thanks.
















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Hmm, so it sounds like the right answer is probably really "both." Spray to kill the DW on top, and tilapia to hopefully eat the seeds. If I were to go that route, what's the recommended order of things? Or does it likely matter much?


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An update...had a local professional come out. His take was that it's actually duckweed *and* watermeal and he recommended simply treating it all with Sonar. So that's what we've done, now just waiting on it to work. He recommended turning off my aerator for the first week, but said we could turn it back on after that. Not sure I need it, though. Things seemed to be doing just fine before the darned plants took over.


--Donnie


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