Pond Boss Magazine
http://www.pondboss.com/images/userfiles/image/20130301193901_6_150by50orangewhyshouldsubscribejpeg.jpg
Advertisment
Newest Members
jkbatts, Amiles87, CHCA, Jason Casteel, Charles5335
15551 Registered Users
Forum Stats
15551 Members
36 Forums
35809 Topics
487443 Posts

Max Online: 1039 @ 03/28/13 02:44 PM
Top Posters
esshup 24028
Cecil Baird1 20043
ewest 19409
Dave Davidson1 13486
Bill Cody 12412
Who's Online
12 registered (Tom M, Hogfan, snrub, PaPond, highflyer, tommyt, canyoncreek, Mike Whatley, Gavinswildlife, John Fitzgerald, jkbatts, Wooman), 244 Guests and 442 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Topic Options
#38015 - 04/14/03 10:55 AM Settling time for Bentonite?
Cecil Baird1 Offline
Hall of Fame

Lunker

Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 20043
Loc: Northeastern Indiana
I have a small temporary holding pond of 25 by 30 feet by 7 feet deep that I will be putting in about 300 small 3 to 4 inch feed trained crappies on May 2nd. However, it does seep more than I would like even though it appears to have a thick clay base. (I believe it has a spring seep in the bottom as it can never be completely emptied, and apparently it reverses and removes water when it is under pressure of a full pond of water.)

I have decided to dump in some bags of bentonite to see if that will solve the problem. Anyone know if two weeks would be long enough of a time to get the bentonite to settle to the bottom? If not, I guess I could add some buffered alum. I would rather have the bentonite settled by the time I put the fish in.
_________________________
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.







Top
#38016 - 04/14/03 03:27 PM Re: Settling time for Bentonite?
Dave Davidson Offline
Lunker

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 1892
Loc: Hurst & Bowie Texas
Cecil, What you are asking about is called Sprinkling and is considered the worst way to utilize Bentonite. I have tried it and would have to agree. When I tried it, the darned stuff clumped up (expanded) as soon as it hit the water. Then the whole works slowly drifted to the side of the pond. If you could somehow put a large piece of pipe around the area you are trying to seal so the stuff would stay still and sink, you MIGHT have a better chance. I think I would about as soon pour Sakrete in.

However, let me qualify my entire response. I have tried Bentonite several times on small stock tanks that I have cleaned out and hit sand. It has never worked for me whether or not there was water in the hole. Maybe someone else knows how to do it correctly. Good luck.

Top
#38017 - 04/15/03 03:54 AM Re: Settling time for Bentonite?
lakedoctor Offline
Member

Registered: 02/19/03
Posts: 122
Loc: Indiana
That is a real tricky and most of the time unsucessful way to install a patch.IF you are trying to seal a spring that changes its direction of flow under pressure.I have had some good results by using a liner to patch a spring that does that if you know the location of the spring and can place the patch over it then weight it down with something I like to use #2 stone it is successful most of 3 times I tried it the only time that it didn't work is when I didn't get over the right spot and it folded up on me leaving about half of the hole exsposed.If you try it let me know how it works for you DOC
_________________________
Doc

Top
#38018 - 04/17/03 09:14 PM Re: Settling time for Bentonite?
Cecil Baird1 Offline
Hall of Fame

Lunker

Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 20043
Loc: Northeastern Indiana
O.K. one more try. I will be picking up 10 bags of bentonite Monday and want to know if this stuff will sink right away or it will take a while. I appreciate all the previous responses but really didn't get an answer to this question.

I am probably not getting the pellets as it is used to mix into feed.

One more try?
_________________________
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.







Top
#38019 - 04/18/03 07:16 AM Re: Settling time for Bentonite?
Dave Davidson Offline
Lunker

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 1892
Loc: Hurst & Bowie Texas
Cecil, I picked up some info on Bentonite at a recent Seminar from a place called Texas Sodium Bentonite, Inc. They list contact info as follows.

George Burton-Sales Supervisor
Rt.3 Comanche, Texas 76442

(915) 885-2339 day/night
(915) 885-2138 Fax
(254) 842-7912 mobile

E-Mail: bentonite@itexas.net

Web site: http://www2.itexas.net/~bentonite

Their literature does invite questions.

Under "How can I learn more about Sodium Bentonite" it says:

"Please include the following information with your correspondence: size of pond, soil type(if possible), location of pond(city, state, zip code), your phone number, fax number or mailing address, so that additional information may be sent."

I have never talked to them but figure if I ever decide to try bentonite again, I will ask for instructions next time. So far, I've gotten my advise from the oil well crowd and it hasn't worked.

Top
#38020 - 04/21/03 12:02 PM Re: Settling time for Bentonite?
Pottsy Offline
Lunker

Registered: 04/21/02
Posts: 494
Loc: Ottawa, Canada
Cecil, did you end up getting the Bentonite and was it powder, granular, or pellet?
The granular or pelleted should sink right away except for any smaller bits/powder in the bags. The majority of the powdered, if not all, will float until it absorbs some water.
_________________________
Owner/Builder of Ottawa Canada's first official off-grid home.

http://www.mygamepictures.com - Hosting your outdoor adventure, fishing, hunting and sports related pictures!

Top
#38021 - 04/21/03 11:08 PM Re: Settling time for Bentonite?
Cecil Baird1 Offline
Hall of Fame

Lunker

Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 20043
Loc: Northeastern Indiana
Pottsy,

Yes, I got ten bags today but have been too busy doing taxidermy to do anything with it. I also want to wait for a calm day to use it. I think I may put some in a bucket of water first to see what it does.

Unfortunately I believe I got the powder so It may not work as well as the granular. However, if worse comes to worse, I may dump in some alum to get it to settle, and if I have to I will flush and replace the water before putting in the fish. (pond is just a small holding pond of 10,700 gallons.)
_________________________
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.







Top
#38022 - 04/22/03 12:48 PM Re: Settling time for Bentonite?
Cecil Baird1 Offline
Hall of Fame

Lunker

Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 20043
Loc: Northeastern Indiana
Pottsy,
I did get the granular after all. I tested some in the pond and sinks right away. My pond is mostly clay and I think my seep is very small so it may work. You should go to the sites that Davidson recommends. Good information, and something I didn't know is it may work but not right away. It can take a while to seal.
_________________________
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.







Top
#38023 - 04/22/03 12:56 PM Re: Settling time for Bentonite?
Pottsy Offline
Lunker

Registered: 04/21/02
Posts: 494
Loc: Ottawa, Canada
Well Cecil the good thing is that you have been doing the activites that pay for the sodium bentonite. : )

Granular is the right stuff to have for sprinkle method for sure.

I believe it can take up to 90 days for the bentonite to reach its max expansion, plus it needs to settle into the leaking areas... or be pulled into the seep by the outflow of the water. Oh and I read somewhere that water temperature plays a role in the activation of the sodium which in turn affects the swell rate.

Yep, checked out the site DD mentioned a year or so ago... but the pricing available in Texas made me too jealous... had to remove the bookmark to the page.
_________________________
Owner/Builder of Ottawa Canada's first official off-grid home.

http://www.mygamepictures.com - Hosting your outdoor adventure, fishing, hunting and sports related pictures!

Top
#38024 - 04/24/03 03:43 PM Re: Settling time for Bentonite?
Cecil Baird1 Offline
Hall of Fame

Lunker

Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 20043
Loc: Northeastern Indiana
Pottsy,

I spread the Bentonite over the service via shovel yesterday and it has already for the most part settled to the bottom. However the bentonite is so light (light blue in color) that the bottom of the holding pond looks like a swimming pool now. I hope it works. If not I tried.

This bentonite came from a company in Iowa. That's not as far from Canada as Texas, so maybe there are sources closer to you.
_________________________
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.







Top
#38025 - 04/26/03 11:56 AM Re: Settling time for Bentonite?
Cecil Baird1 Offline
Hall of Fame

Lunker

Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 20043
Loc: Northeastern Indiana
Just for the record the bentonite has completely settled in a few days and the water is crystal clear all the way to the bottom at 7 feet. Only time will tell If I have controlled the seep, but it is a very very small holding pond and I seemed to have covered a good layer over all of the bottom. (500 lbs. in a 25 by 30 steep sided holding pond that is only 7 feet deep in the center)

I think the iron from the well water has actually binded with the bentonite as it settled, as I have never seen water this clear. I wish my trout pond was this clear!

I will be getting the crappies next Friday and will install a small diffuser soon and suspend shade cloth over part of the pond. If anyone is interested I will keep you posted on the progress of the crappies.
_________________________
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.







Top
#38026 - 04/28/03 04:28 PM Re: Settling time for Bentonite?
Pottsy Offline
Lunker

Registered: 04/21/02
Posts: 494
Loc: Ottawa, Canada
I have found a couple of sources here in Canada, in Ontario actually but having trouble finding distributors that don't charge an arm and a leg. I think I have found my best deal yet through a Co-Op... $8 CAD for 22.5 kg bags.

The colour cast that having grey/blue clay gives to water really looks nice. Of course it isn't the fish growing colour a nice green is but since you are likely pellet feeding the crappie that won't matter. You might just have to try a swim.

Let me know if it seems to seal up. Any idea how much swell you got out of the bentonite?
_________________________
Owner/Builder of Ottawa Canada's first official off-grid home.

http://www.mygamepictures.com - Hosting your outdoor adventure, fishing, hunting and sports related pictures!

Top
#38027 - 04/28/03 09:33 PM Re: Settling time for Bentonite?
Cecil Baird1 Offline
Hall of Fame

Lunker

Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 20043
Loc: Northeastern Indiana
Pottsy,

It looks like it has swelled at least a half a dozen times, but it is hard to tell. So far so good on seepage but only time will tell.
_________________________
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.







Top
#38028 - 04/29/03 02:47 PM Re: Settling time for Bentonite?
Pottsy Offline
Lunker

Registered: 04/21/02
Posts: 494
Loc: Ottawa, Canada
Do you have any of it left? If so would you be able to do me a favour as an experiment? Measure the diameter of a dry granule then put it in a jar of water and guesstimate as close as you can how much it has swelled over a certain time period until it stops swelling? I am curious as to the 'quality' of different sources/deposits of Bentonite and being able to compare would be valuable in doing so. (I find a fair gap in pricing and I am wondering if the 'deals' are only as good as the product received.)

Anyone else that could do the same and report here on the source and company they got the Bentonite from would be appreciated.

Bare in mind that swell rate is not as important as maximum size when fully saturated as the rate of swell has many determinate factors.
_________________________
Owner/Builder of Ottawa Canada's first official off-grid home.

http://www.mygamepictures.com - Hosting your outdoor adventure, fishing, hunting and sports related pictures!

Top
#38029 - 04/30/03 01:08 AM Re: Settling time for Bentonite?
Cecil Baird1 Offline
Hall of Fame

Lunker

Registered: 08/08/02
Posts: 20043
Loc: Northeastern Indiana
Pottsy,

I can do only because my big hound jumped on a bag in the van and punctured one. So I have some left in the van.

I'll let you know the results. How long should I wait?
_________________________
If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.







Top
#38030 - 04/30/03 06:34 AM Re: Settling time for Bentonite?
Dave Davidson Offline
Lunker

Registered: 04/22/02
Posts: 1892
Loc: Hurst & Bowie Texas
Cecil and Pottsy, At the seminar I mentioned in my earlier post, the Pond Pro said that he tries to always get his Bentonite out of Oklahoma. He stated that it was better than Texas stuff but I have no idea how that compares to Bentonite from other locales. As I stated, the stuff has never worked for me but could be my fault.

Top
#38031 - 04/30/03 03:23 PM Re: Settling time for Bentonite?
Pottsy Offline
Lunker

Registered: 04/21/02
Posts: 494
Loc: Ottawa, Canada
Cecil- Bless your hound. haha

If you could check it at any interval you can starting after 1/2 hour up to three days I think that would give a good idea. I am assuming most activity in the first day or so... but don't put yourself out to do it, just looking for a general idea. Thank you.

Dave- It's funny, at first I heard that there was really only one good deposit of the stuff, then I heard about other areas producing it... then more... so at this point I am not sure what the situation is and if there is a huge variation or any variation... or are we even getting the same stuff from each locale? I do have to agree that it is a hit and miss proposition, certainly depengin on the site, and the method of application.
_________________________
Owner/Builder of Ottawa Canada's first official off-grid home.

http://www.mygamepictures.com - Hosting your outdoor adventure, fishing, hunting and sports related pictures!

Top

Today's Birthdays
don reynolds, FRPeeps, TimBar
Recent Posts
Chronicles of stocking Hybrid Striped Bass......
by snrub
17 minutes 29 seconds ago
Putting in well to fill pond
by canyoncreek
27 minutes 19 seconds ago
questions on siphon system
by Hogfan
56 minutes 52 seconds ago
Figuring our bass situation in 20 acre pond
by jkbatts
58 minutes 36 seconds ago
Compaction
by Hogfan
Today at 08:48 PM
EasyPro Aerator
by Mike Whatley
Today at 08:46 PM
Air station install?
by Mike Whatley
Today at 08:13 PM
Brown floating guck new pond
by Bob-O
Today at 08:10 PM
Small Pond - Big Heat - will aeration help ?
by Mike Whatley
Today at 07:36 PM
Stand Pipe repair
by CHCA
Today at 02:46 PM
Newly Uploaded Images
CNBG
My Best Longear so far
Help ID this fish
Crayfish monster.
Turkey Pics
Question on pond draining

2014 POND BOSS INC. all rights reserved USA and Worldwide