Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Cattail question.

In an unexpected (and questionable) move last fall, Monsanto retired their former aquatic-glyphosate brand known as AQUAMASTER and replaced it with; drum-roll please - "ROUNDUP CUSTOM".
Talk about confusing the market-place! Here we've preached for decades "Don't use ROUNDUP in aquatic sites!"... Now, that story has changed - sort of...
For what it's worth: There are numerous versions of ROUNDUP (XYZ) in the marketplace, not to mention multiple more flavors and concentrations of glyphosate under other brand names. Yes, there are disctinct differences between the various brands and formulations that exceed their "active ingredient" concentrations.
In short (and to my knowledge), virtually all but one brand-name of glyphosate labeled for aquatic sites contain 53.8% active-ingredient - and NO surfactant - so the addition of an appropriate surfactant (that is intended for aquatic sites) is necessary for maximized activity and performance on targeted plants.
ADDENDUM: Shore-Klear Plus IS labeled for aquatics and DOES contain a pre-blended surfactant. However, it is an 18% glyphosate formulation versus the 53.8% a.i. for most other aquatic-labeled formulations.
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As usual, the one thing that is consistant is change.....

Interesting thread....I don't use Roundup except in the gravel driveway, Rodeo around the pond but I'm going to look into Shoreklear. Anyone know how safe it is around animals?

My experiences. I have three farmer friends that use Roundup in their ponds for years now with no known problems. I try to have a natural pond but I did spray full grown cattails in front of my deck in the middle of last summer and the kill was complete with none showing up so far this year in the sprayed area of about 50x50 feet. I use Eliminator from Walmart for about $ 10. I did small sample sprayings using different strength with and without dishwasher sufficient. I had dozen of minnows try to eat the spray bubbles on the water with no ill effects. The spray that really worked for me was 4 ozs. of Eliminator to one gal. of water or the whole bottle makes 2 1/2 gallons as I remember.

I've often wondered about just how much damage chemicals in ponds can do. In no way am I advocating wholesale or unwise use of chemicals in ponds.

However, when I think about it, one inch of water over one acre is 27,000 gallons at approx 8 3/4 pounds per gallon. If I figure a one acre pond with an average depth of 10 ft, I come up with a big chunk of water. Do your own math. So, what damage can 6 oz of Roundup, with a surfactant thrown in, mixed in 5 gallons of water really do when sprayed on shoreline plants?

Please remember and understand: I'm not giving advice here.

I'm one of the oddballs on this site that thinks there's a place on my pond for cattails. I use them at the north ends for erosion and nutrient control...which of course means I have to keep removing them on the 1/2 of the pond I DON'T want them.

I use a combo approach...mechanical cutting/pulling where I can get to them via tractor and/or scythe, and occasionally spraying them with shoreklear for the really hard to reach areas. For me cattails aren't something to be eradicated. Instead I just try to keep a balance.

Ask me in a few years if this works out...I don't pretend to know what I'm doing. I'm pretty much making it up as I go.

I still say the approval of a herbicide depends on how many thousands of dollars a company is willing to spend on testing of a product to show low levels of toxicity to aquatic life vs. whether it should be safe by doing comparisons. At least that is the case with drugs in aquaculture. There are very few drugs approved for aquaculture because the market is not large enough to justify the high costs of testing.

Dale, that's not a bad idea. Alan(FIH) has found that Lusk gave some good advice some years back on a visit to his pond. If you kill pond vegetation, another will almost always take it's place. And, you might dislike the newcomer more than you did the original one.

Just a note on using chemicals. Always mix them exactly as the label says and they will work if applied as directed. Also, mix them immediately before you use them and do not leave them in the tank for use tomorrow. Every chemical has a PH it likes to dwell at and mixing it with water of a different PH will alter the chemical and render it ineffective. The greater the difference in PH, the quicker it will break down the chemical in the tank. Something about atoms in the chemical bonding with iron atoms in the water. IIRC, name brand chemicals, the instructor mentioned Roundup, have added buffers to reduce the problem but generics usually do not. He said some chemicals can lose over 50% of their efficacy in 30 minutes in a tank with water of a large PH difference.

John, my grandmother used powdered DDT in the garden and had no ill effects from it to. Why isn't it on the market now?

When I went thru the class for my applicators license, they said the label was the law. I can't agree with using something that is NOT labeled for pond use in the pond.

Just like my grandmother, using it may be OK and then again maybe not. I don't want to tell someone to use something that might cause harm, or is illegal.

MSC I agree with that completely. When I had muskrats my cattails and spatterdock were kept at eye pleasing levels. But when I got my dog Dolly they left. So I sprayed the cattails in front of my deck and what happens,,,I now have curly leaf pond weed that is too thick in place of the cattails. Now my grass carp may take care of that over time or maybe I need a few more. Every action has a reaction doesn't it.

Fluridone completely killed off all cattails, but the treatment was for duck weed. The cattails were just a bonus.

The last time this topic came up I mentioned that I use a copper ground wire where cattails used to grow. I had one member say it would never work. But the fact remains that it has worked for me for years. Plus no chemicals.

John could you give details on how you use the copper ground wire?

Its a copper ground wire that I run along where the cattails were growing. I killed them first with a herbicide, but that was years ago.

IMO you will get more value by scrapping the copper.

John,

Had something similar happen. I eliminated some ferrel cats and next thing I know I have a chipmunk explosion in the garden.

Adding Giant burreed to replace the cattails would work.