Pond Boss Forums AQUATIC VEGETATION Controlling unwanted plants New Pond Owner - Drinking Water Source

Hello All,

I wanted to make a first post describing what I have with all the information you might need, so that I can reference people to it if I have questions...as well as ask a couple questions right away...I'll list those at the bottom.

Pond
My wife and I moved for work into Northwest Ohio. We have approximately a 1/2 acre pond. We were told by the previous owners that there is a shallow end that ends up 25-30 feet deep in the "deep end." There is no liner, the soil is all clay and they just dug to the clay and stopped. It is mostly fed by rainwater and most of the backyard seems to be a watershed. There is a cistern near the pond that has a field tile from the back of the property that fills it. The cistern has a sump pump that can help add water to the pond. We have ag fields around the house, but the water tested safe from any dangerous ag products.

We took possession of the house in February so this is our first spring. We'll get a hard freeze over in the winter, but we had no obvious fish die, likely due to the depth. We're out in the country with no real wind breaks and we probably average 15mph wind all the time.

Drinking Water
Our pond is our source of drinking water. There are a couple houses with wells, but in general the ground water is scarce and of terrible quality in the area so many houses use ponds. We have a large pressure tank, a chlorine pump with concentrated chlorox, and two large holding tanks. Then the water runs through a carbon resin filter to remove the chlorine, then through a whole house charcoal filter. We have an off-shoot for ice maker and kitchen drinking water tap that goes through three more progressively finer filters. Tap water tastes a little gamey but is plenty safe. The drinking water tap tastes great.

Fish
The previous owners had stocked 3 white amur grass carp. One is probably 1.5 feet long, the other two are massive. I'm guessing one is 4' and the other is 3' although I haven't gotten really up close yet as they are really skittish. They look like white submarines though.

If you stand by the bank there are about 10 small (4") bluegill that will greet you. It makes me wonder if they didn't hand feed them in the past. You'll also have 3-4 long (10") black catfish. The previous owner told me they were channel catfish. (saw the threads talking about black catfish being bullheads...) They really look like catfish with the forked tails so hopefully he was correct.

We were told he had also stocked some large mount bass (LMB?) but we haven't seen any near the bank.

Plant Life
There are some tall wheat-like grasses around one area with some new shoots for the year. The neighbor has cat-tails but is taking steps to kill them off. I haven't found any cat-tails. There are few underwater plants, maybe due to the monster carp eating through them. The water seems relatively clear, sort of a dark blue color if I had to pick. We seem to have at least a small algae issue, described below.

Algae
I've just experienced my first algae bloom. It looks filamentous in nature. We saw the little fur like growths on the bottom rocks, etc and thought nothing of it...then one day BOOM it's everywhere around the banks. The center has a couple floating patches, but is mostly clear.

Chemicals/Additions
I've only made one addition so far. The previous owners used a pond shading product and had left half of the gallon. I put it in last night although I realize now that the algae has bloomed, it's probably too late to help much. It's called Clean Clear Blue by OrganicPond.

Pond Goals
My goals for the pond seem relatively simple.

• Aquatic plants / algae kept to a minimum so it looks nice and is swimmable in the warmer months.
• A few catchable fish so when my daughter gets older, or when family comes up we could drown a worm or two and have some fun. Don't plan on eating anything out of the pond, although if it happens that we could that might be a nice option for the future.
• As low maintenance as possible. My wife and I both have full time jobs and side businesses (2 for me) so "playing pond" isn't going to be high on my to-do list or a hobby. I'd like as little tinkering as possible. Lowest cost would support this goal. I won't want to have to install a $3k aerator.
• Maximizing benefit as a drinking water source. Things that help with taste, clarity, and safety are all pros. I've read that blue-green algae are bad, etc. Our treatment system should protect us against all that and has been inspected by the health department, but the cleaner/clearer/etc the better. Also all chemical additions will need to take into account it is our source of drinking water.

Questions

• Are there any fish additions that will help with the algae problem or better balance our fish population currently? I've read about Tilapia though they will die in the winter.
• Are there simple additions which can help with algae that are safe to drink? I've read about citrine pro(?), the two kinds of copper products, aeration, oxygenating products, etc. If I can dump in a bottle or two and ignore it the rest of the year, I'd be a happy pond owner.
• Anything else any of you experts can think of that may help me achieve my goals based on the information given.

I appreciate your help in advance.

~ Josh

PS: I'll get some pictures taken tonight and post them tomorrow which may help. If you guys need any more information, I'll provide what I can.

Wow that's a professional looking first post..

Some pictures as promised...

Overall shot of the pond area. Wind blows constantly from right to left in this picture.


Closer view of the pond.


Shot of the algae blown to one side, along with some wheat-type grass growing in one area.


About the worst part of the algae in the pond. Also caught part of the smallest grass carp playing.


Me grabbing some of the algae. It was extremely bubbly and squishy. Pulled out like cotton-y ropes. Filamentous right?

Maximizing your drinking water quality from the pond I would think rest solely on your filtration set up..

I would consider setting up a consultation with a water softer company in the area.. I just had out culligan yesterday.. they are very knowledgeable just do some research on what the recommend.. I would think you should have a reverse osmosis set up in your filtration somewhere I didn't see that on your original post..

The carbon resin filter looks like a water softener in that it has a pressurized tank with media, and backflushes itself as needed. I would think that is doing a pretty similar job. Then the whole house charcoal filter is immediately after that. Isn't a water softener just a fancy filtration unit? Would that do anything that the resin + charcoal isn't?

What would the reverse osmosis system do that isn't already being done? I've used a couple systems in the past and they were absolutely terrible with water volume/pressure. You couldn't fill a coffee pot without running out of water down to a trickle. They were constantly replacing filters to make it usable and a week or two and it would slow down again. I'm thinking the water purification side should be fine unless I find out otherwise. I'm hoping by keeping the pond on a good path I can reduce the difficulty the system will have in keeping the water drinkable.

I would only do the water softener if you have hard water. If not for get the water softener.

Just run a good partial filter, UV light/filter, and RO for your drinking water. On out 30 foot well we run a softener but we have high calcium. They all want you to buy expendable or consumables like salt that they can keep selling you.

Get one extra bulb for your UV because it will fail. I use one every five years or so.

Cheers Don.

Hopefully Bill Cody will see this and chime in. I sent him a PM about this thread so he'll see it when he hops on here.

I don't deal with water supply ponds so I can't say what you shouldn't do. I do know that a lot of people in Ohio are stocking Tilapia in their ponds to deal with the FA instead of having to use chemicals in their drinking water supply. Tilapia help by eating FA and then by dying in the fall, they are removed from the pond by scavengers, or by the pond owners before they die to put them in the freezer for dinner. Taking them out removes excess phosphorus from the BOW, leaving less and less for the FA to utilize in the upcoming years.

Those tall grass looking things in the back left of the pond look like Phragmites to me. If so, I'd whack them with Shore-Klear or Refuge to kill 'em if you can use that chemical in/near potable water. If they are Phragmites, they are just as bad or worse than cattails.
http://www.invasiveplants.net/phragmites/

Check the label on any chemicals that you use to see if there are any restrictions for use in potable water systems (drinking water).

jd, Your situation is the very reason I was able to introduce my pure Blue Tilapia in the NW Ohio region. The Tilapia do indeed die annually, yet that is what makes them the perfect tool in your drinking water supply pond...They ELIMINATE the need for chemicals!!!

You will also want to stock largemouth Bass @ 75 per surface acre, Bluegill @ 500 and Redear Sunfish @ 250. Toss in about 15 Channel Catfish for winter Tilapia cleanup from the bottom also.

Dying annually is what allows the FA you have to be moved up the food chain by the Tilapia and into your fish that live all year in your pond.

Tilapia, stocked at 40# per surface acre, or higher if wanted, will not only keep the FA consumed, they will also eat all those leaves blowing in keeping your pond bottom at or near, freshly-built-clean.

Bottom line is, Tilapia do more for your pond to keep your water filtration cleaner, with less expense and labor than any other option currently available. If you want less labor, hook up to city water.

I recommend the culligan guys because they do alot more than just water softners.. they sell every kind of water treating systems they left my house went down to the neighbors to get him set up with a system that removes sulfur and iron from his water..

Yeah I wasn't actually recommending a water softer for you pond just the companies that install them because (around here anyways) they do all kinds of water treating..

PS- I'm not a salesman or anything just that's the name I used aftet going through a couple different brands and "demonstrations" and I give then hell in the demonstrations lol..

You have a complex situation in that you are using the pond for multiple goals. Primary goal is domestic water use which requires somewhat different management than a recreation or sport fish pond. For domestic water use I encourage managing for clear water because it puts less demand on the treatment processes. If you start with really clear water you do not have to remove very much material to produce high quality water.
Field tile at back of property could contain agricultural drainage depending on source of water feeding the tile. You mention the water tested safe from agriculture products. That will depend on the type of test that was conducted. If it was just verified "safe" by the local health department then all that was tested was fecal coliform bacteria and not chemicals. However if the test results specified which chemicals were tested and the resulting concentrations then the water was in reality really tested for chemical contaminants. Rarely is done by health departments.

Grass is common exotic reed grass (Phragmites). It is a rampant spreader as noted by esshup. I would never allow it or cattails in my pond - too many problems. Minimize it or eliminate it. Replace it with better shoreline plants such as aquatic iris (not yellows) and or pickerel plant.

Pond dye needs to be added as ice "goes off" at end of winter. It dissipates daily thus small doses of about 1 cup should be added each month. When you see blue water in the toilet, your treatment system needs maintenance such as new carbon. Carbon does become saturated with absorbed chemicals.

Tilapia are very good at algae consumption especially for those where algae as gotten ahead of the goal such as in your picture. For drinking water use, I would use the sodium percarbonate products (green clean Pro, Phycomycin, Pak27, hydrogen peroxide-dioxide based). Your current treatment system filters will not remove the copper in Cutrine or other copper based algaecide products. Copper is removed by Reverse Osmosis systems.

I doubt very much that a 0.5 ac pond is 25-30 ft deep. Only in extreme cases are ponds in NW Ohio dug that deep. Most likely it is 15-18ft deep which is plenty deep. Get out there with a rope and brick and measure the depth this summer - important to know the true depth. Your pond only naturally mixes, even in windy conditions, down to 6-8ft deep, the rest is unmixed from mid-May to mid-October. I measured - tested many ponds as proof and yours is not unique even if it is 25ft deep. Pond aeration systems do not have to cost $3K. They can be DIY assembled & installed for $280-$400. In NW OH and in small ponds such as yours well designed aerators only need to be operated 3-8hrs/day to maintain healthy water conditions.

The algae growing is not all bad. As it grows it is absorbing chemicals from the water and purifying the water. When the algae dies in the pond it pollutes and recycles all those chemicals back into the water. The more algae that you have growing in the pond the clearer your water will become. The algae by growing creates better conditions for its growth and spread to deeper depths. Tilapia especially blue tilapia do eat a lot of algae and when abundant enough will rid the pond of filamentous algae.

Thanks Bill! I knew you were well versed in dealing with this situation!

Wow, thanks to everyone for the information. I think this gives me the info I need to proceed. I've got an appt with a water guy who not only installs various types of systems, but also who designed ours. I'm going to have him do service on the system to make sure it's working like it should and talk to him about other option pros/cons like UV/RO/etc.

I've started looking for a source of Tilapia in the area. I think I missed most of the fish trucks but since Tilapia are delivered later, I may be able to find them. I'm not sure how many of each type of fish I have right now so I don't know how many more to add...although maybe a percentage of the normal amount and see how it goes.

Regarding the reed grass/phragmites...They're only into the water a little bit, and the ones that try to march into the grass are easily knocked down when I weed-eat around the pond after mowing. I don't see a huge issue unless it will affect the water balance. Pulling them all and replacing them seems like more work than I'd like to take on right now unless they are a problem in some way that I'm missing.

I'll do the pond dye correctly next year and will just maintain the rest of this year.

Bill, you aren't too far from me. I work in Waterville. Once again, thanks and I'm sure I'll have more questions, and I'll try to lurk around rather than asking and ditching.

Waterville is close I go through there on a regular basis. Guys in Bowling Green get in tilapia each year. I can put in contact with them. Private Message me.

The reed grass will spread laterally. Keep the patch cut back whenever it gets larger.

Just an update.

I'm posting a schematic with depth measurements. We swam in the pond this weekend and there are some wicked thermoclines. The algae is a little better with the aquashade added (although our house water is blue and the wife hates that). I'm also going to ask some questions about aeration in the other section and wanted this up to date with info.



I also found a guy with some tilapia. I put in 2 pretty big ones about 30 small ones as that's all he had. I floated the bags like he said, then when I put them in the three big channel catfish I have were swimming all around them and (it looked like) eating the little ones. It was hard to see. I haven't seen one since, but that doesn't necessarily mean they aren't there. I haven't seen the big ones either and they were way to big to be eaten. Hopefully they got away and have started munching on some algae.

jd, I am curious where you found your tilapia, also if you know what species they are. "Some" tilapia, when not done in the proper way can get expensive and be a total crap shoot on getting results. If you have LMB over 10 inches, the "small ones" were most likely snacks and unless the larger ones were a male and female, are all but useless. The MOST algae they can consume is about 4 pounds each over the season...or, roughly one floating mat each. There is a lot of effort and some science that that took place to discover and set the stocking rates, sizes and methods to attain the goals you hope to reach.

We offer advice when someone asks for it here, freely. We also attempt to educate, inform and say why we suggest what we do. Many of us are experts in our fields and make our livings getting paid for our information and experience.

We do this, not just for the people asking questions, but also for those looking for the same answers. Personally, I know everyone will take what matters to them from this information, if anything at all, yet it is a little frustrating when solid answers are given, then used haphazardly.