I then have two choices to make again. Choice one: Leave the spawn in Extratopia and grow them out over the summer and see how they do. If I go this way, I know that for the first week or so I will need to add really small food for them. After that, they should be able to eat the FHM's and other fry.
Choice two: Catch all the fry and release them in the big pond in the shallow end and let them survive on their own. The good thing here is the big pond is mature enough that it contains all the food they will need. But I would not know the results directly.
What about doing half of each? Leave half the fry in Extratopia and put half in the big pond?
I was only addressing the initial stocking of X. What you do with the grown out LMB later this year is a different question based on goals. One could , if very brave , over stock the LMB and move some out as the fish grew. You would be assuming you could gauge critical load (carrying capacity) as the fish (all of them) grew. I don't trust running a system at high capacity for long --- usually bad things happen.
As always, I learn. George is a great teacher and has so much knowledge that at times I am too many steps behind. You both talk about genetics from past experiences and I value that input. My concern was that I don't really know what I am doing so if I screw this up this year, so be it, but now I see that I really need to prepare for next year as I am already too late for this year. I think I may try to get some fingerlings from a trusted source and raise them this year in preparation for next years spawn. I have enough forage in there now to grow a good base for any fingerlings I may get and by next year, I should really have a good bottom up food chain in Extratopia to try my hand at raising some really nice fish.
On the loading front, I believe I have that covered. TP&L is coming along nicely, I should have 12 and 24 Volt DC and 120 volt AC power available at the Topias within a month. I have been collecting the parts to "fly" 900 watts of solar power out there and I should have enough storage to do just about anything I want electrically. I have a set of bottom diffusers that I am going to place in the Topias and I am looking for small (1/5 or 1/6 HP) surface aerators to add to them as well. My 1/2HP worked so well that I only had to run it a few hours a day, but what I really want is a smaller setup that I can run 24/7. Yes I could run the 1/2 HP stuff 24/7, but that would be a big waist of power and three of them plus the bottom system might tax the system if I have several cloudy days is a row.
Getting a good bump on genetics now is a worthy endeavor. I'll learn what I can this year to be better prepared for next year. But this is a bitter pill indeed.
Brian
The one thing is the one thing A dry fly catches no fish Try not to be THAT 10%
Hey buddy, 'ya doing good....you just don't realize how much you have accomplished this year - step back and take a look! You are light years ahead of where I was at your stage and I was piddling with a puddle. You have an amazing resource!
Hey, Jeff wants to help you catch some of those big crappie Saturday - you gonna be fish farming or flyin'? Gimmi a holler... George
N.E. Texas 2 acre and 1/4 acre ponds Original george #173 (22 June 2002)
Hey buddy, 'ya doing good....you just don't realize how much you have accomplished this year - step back and take a look! You are light years ahead of where I was at your stage and I was piddling with a puddle. You have an amazing resource! George
Brian, IMO you have not lost a year - you have gained a year. We'll talk about it! George
N.E. Texas 2 acre and 1/4 acre ponds Original george #173 (22 June 2002)
Well my LMB are post spawn for sure, so this year is over for trying to spawn LMB in Extratopia but that is okay because I am using it to grow CNBG and Tilapia for the big pond. I went by on Thursday and I was excited to see thousands of tadpoles in Extratopia. The CNBG and Tilapia are eating from the feeder and the water chemistry looks great. I added some salt and I'll add some aglime in a few weeks but for now Extratopia looks great.
As you can see after the Alum treatment, Extratopia looks great. Here is another view.
Extratopia is so clean and getting green that I have decided to treat both the other two topias down to clean water. I have the Alum to treat and I am going to get some help from a friend and we are going to get the other two topias looking as good. I will keep records of the fish production and see what difference if any I get out of the cleaner waters.
On a side note: In the area where we cleaned up the shoreline, I have a lot of FA and I am very happy with it being there because I have seen so many little guys in there that have a chance to grow up before being eaten. The explosion of life this year is very encouraging!!
All in all, the Topias and the cleaned up area seem to be doing great so far this year. I now have my solar panels and charge controllers, so I am working hard to install TP&L in two locations and use the old system to water the grass on the hill.
It should be a busy summer for sure.
Brian
The one thing is the one thing A dry fly catches no fish Try not to be THAT 10%
I'll post them and the water quality numbers as I get them. I am very interested to see if the treatment remains in effect, or if over time I will have to treat again.
Georgetopia was minimally treated last year and it did not hold through the dirt work we did this spring. so it will be interesting to see if after this treatment I get the same results.
Learning should occur.
BTW, what did you think of all those minnows in the algae? They are everywhere in the algae, that was just one place I took pictures. Also, I took some video that I will post later.
Brian
The one thing is the one thing A dry fly catches no fish Try not to be THAT 10%
I figured the experts would be able to tell me what kind and how they are doing with those pictures.
I know I have FHM, topminnows and gambusia. I'll try to post the video tomorrow, today got away from me while I was working on other projects around the house.
Brian
The one thing is the one thing A dry fly catches no fish Try not to be THAT 10%
I will not take a stab and actually try to tell you what they are, but will say those pictures and the size of the fish and the way they travel in groups act very much like what the experts ID'd for me as being Gambusia.
Here is a link to the pictures I took of the minnow that they ID'd
Catch one in a minnow net and see if they don't look the same. If they are gams, there is a lot of good information about them in the thread link above.
Mode dioecism Fertilization internal (oviduct) Spawning frequency No obvious seasonal peak Batch spawner Ref. Reproductive guild bearers internal live bearers Description of life cycle and mating behavior The species is viviparous (Ref. 5258). Internal fertilization is possible because the anal fin of the male is modified into a copulatory organ. The females carries about 30 alevins and gestation lasts for a period of 24 days (Ref. 6348) to a month (Ref. 30578). Search for more references on reproduction Scirus
Mode dioecism Fertilization internal (oviduct) Spawning frequency Batch spawner Ref. Reproductive guild bearers internal live bearers Description of life cycle and mating behavior Matures at 4-6 weeks; 3 generations can be produced in one year. Gestation lasts 3-4 weeks. Brood may reach up to 354 young, but is generally around 40-60 (Ref. 1672, 59043). Search for more references on reproduction Scirus
Take a look at fishbase info below. They could be gams (cant tell from pic) . Usually gams don't have large broods like that.
In the old portion of my daughters refurbished pond that has old water and fish and in one new portion where I made a cut to let the water in, the ones identified in the thread I linked to above are thick as hair on a hogs back.
The other new portion of the pond the water has not risen to a high enough level to join the old portions of the pond with the gams. I hope we do not have enough runoff of water to join them for another month or so and maybe the BG we recently stocked will get off a spawn before the gams have access to the new portion.
Have put some 5-6" BG in the old parts too, thinking they would make short order of the small minnows, but not so far. Still see tons of them on the surface.
In the seasonal creeks where I usually see them they are like you say, not large broods. But in this old pond they are just thick. I kind of wonder if in this very shallow remaining BOW (maybe 3 or 4' deep) the ice cover didn't kill off what remaining larger fish were there and the gams were given free reign of the pond. Lots of variables.
Don't know what all the gams will do to the BG reproduction when all 3 BOW's join when we get about another foot of water in the pond. Will they wipe out the BG reproduction newly hatched fry, or just be a good food source for the large stocked BG?
Here is a full sized picture of those fry, does this help to ID them?
I'll be back to the farm this week to take some close up (Macro) pictures of these fish if I can find them again. All I know is that there are about a thousand of them in this school and I have found three or four schools like this school in the algae by the cabin. The schools are five to eight feet long and about two feet wide as they swim through the algae.
Eric, If they are LMB fry, do I need to do anything to control their population? Or do I just let mother nature handle them? The Algae seems like a great nursery for them and all the other little fish I have this year. I doubt the Tilapia can eat it all of the algae anytime soon, but if they do, they would provide a lot of fry all by themselves for the other YOY to feed on.
Brian
The one thing is the one thing A dry fly catches no fish Try not to be THAT 10%
Here is one of the best pictures of the fry I found in the pond. It was about an inch and a quarter to an inch and a half in length and when it eat something, it would open its mouth very wide and very quickly.
I did not catch any because they are too fast and I only had a little net. If I need to catch a few, I'll figure out a way to catch some, but I think I know what hey are....
Thought?
Brian
The one thing is the one thing A dry fly catches no fish Try not to be THAT 10%
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