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#373860 04/24/14 10:46 PM
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I came home Tuesday to find I had very little pressure coming from my well (I knew nothing about wells), which feeds two hydrants and the house with NO pressure tank. The pressure finally diminished to nothing so on to the internet I went.

I first checked the pressure switch which was under the well-cap along with the wiring that goes to the well-pump. If you look closely, you can see where the left set of contacts are laying sideways.


I was able to correct them to get the pump working again until I could replace the pressure switch yesterday morning.

Turning the power back on I could hear the pump working to build up pressure. Then problem number two arrived. (sorry for the fuzzy photo)


The blue coiled tubing apparently attaches to the pump at the bottom (or maybe a pitless connector?) and the pressure switch at the top. This is what triggers the switch if/when the pressure drops. The problem is that the tubing is full of pinholes, top to bottom! Causing my pump to cycle way more than it should (explains the high electric bill!).

Out of all my internet research in the past two days, I've not seen this type of tubing used. It seems most people are using schedule 40 or 80 PVC. And I'm guessing the well is less than 60' deep, but that's just a guess at this point.

I need to replace the tubing (likely with schedule 40 or 80 pvc) so the pump needs to come out. I'm sure there's a pitless connector to feed the house, but what about the two hydrants? Could there be 3 pitless connectors? So far I've been unable to see down far enough to see even one pitless connector and I don't want to start on this until I know for sure what I'm doing.

The fact I have no pressure tank has made this harder to research on the internet. Does anyone have any knowledge of what I might have here and suggestions on removing the pump?

Questions:
Could there be 3 pitless connectors?
Would the tubing be connected directly to the pump, with another line from the pump feeding the pitless connector(s)?
Suggestions and/or advice on removing the pump?

Sorry for the long story but if you need more info just let me know, and thanks in advance for any help! I need to fix this ASAP before I burn out the pump.

PS - And the downside is I leave for Sioux City, IA at 1pm tomorrow for a weekend pool tournament so checking back will be sporadic.

Thanks again!


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Stupid question: Can you ask your well driller to come out?

I had a severed wire in my well assembly a few years back. Something chewed through it. My well driller came out, found it instantly and fixed it.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 04/25/14 07:53 AM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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A bladder tank will save wear and tear on the pump. I've never heard of a system like that for a house.


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Not a stupid question, Cecil probably the smartest move!

But as I don't own the place and the trust has no money, I DIY about everything I can out here. But I also know my limits so I don't create more of a problem.

I'm just reaching out at this point. Paying to have something done is a last resort for me.

Originally Posted By: esshup
A bladder tank will save wear and tear on the pump. I've never heard of a system like that for a house.

I agree, Esshup! This is why I'm having a hard time researching this on the internet. This is an old farmstead with most everything done bass ackwards. You'd be amazed at what I've seen and changed around here already!

Last edited by Lovnlivin; 04/24/14 11:21 PM.

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I've never heard of multiple pitless adapters being used, but then again I've also never seen a system without a bladder tank.

It seems to me, that the coiled tubing only need connect to a line that leaves the well, not the pump itself. The entire water line would be pressurized by the pump, so it just needs to tap into the line somewhere for the pressure switch to function. And I'm betting that whoever rigged this up only went just as far as they had to with that tubing. Possibly to the pitless adapter itself.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Looks like someone just cobbled together an "on-demand" system using a coiled garden hose to absorb the water hammer on start-up. Can you see the pitless T-fitting? Since a "pitless adaptor" just allows the water line to exit the well through the well casing below a frost line, and uses compression/weight to seal, it is highly unlikely there are multiple exits.



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Originally Posted By: esshup
A bladder tank will save wear and tear on the pump. I've never heard of a system like that for a house.


My well that I use to fill and top off ponds and feed the trout pond 24/7 does not have a bladder tank either. However it isn't turned on and off much.


If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
My well that I use to fill and top off ponds and feed the trout pond 24/7 does not have a bladder tank either. However it isn't turned on and off much.

My well at the pond is the same way (on-off switch), with the water coming out of the top of the well-head opposed to the well that feeds the house and hydrants.

I'm de-pressurizing the system now to stop the spraying from the leaky tubing so I can drop a flashlight down for a better look, and hopefully have some answers regarding Tony and Rex's responses.

Thanks guys!


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LL, there could be some confusion on the pitless adaptor. I can't imaging using 3 adaptors, but there are, 3 main pieces to one adaptor plus one to three seals.

For those that don't know what a pitless is... Pitless Adaptor



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By the way, is that coiled hose made for air? I use those in the shop.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
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Originally Posted By: sprkplug
By the way, is that coiled hose made for air? I use those in the shop.


That blue hose is an air brake service hose from a semi to supply air the trailer..

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I have soooo many other things I should be doing! cry And it took me longer to utilize Photobucket than it did to take all the photos! ARGH!

Here's a better look as to what's down there. It looks like this is what they call a "spool type" adapter (??). It also appears there may be female threads for a "T-bar" removal?





With that tubing being connected only with a hose-clamp, I know better than to pull on that to remove the adapter. So now I'm researching how to remove a spool-type adapter.

So Tony and Rex, this may address both of your responses. Maybe the spool-type adapter needs to be used when there's no bladder tank? But now it's how to safely remove it (corroded side-walls, etc.).


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I had to look it up, but I think you may be correct. It looks like a spool adapter. How far down in the casing is it?


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
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Originally Posted By: outdoorlivin247
Originally Posted By: sprkplug
By the way, is that coiled hose made for air? I use those in the shop.

That blue hose is an air brake service hose from a semi to supply air the trailer..


Here's the end of the hose where it attaches to the pressure switch



The green tape is that "magic" tape used to stop leaks. Yeah right laugh

And thank you again for all your input! Maybe I'm getting closer to being able to fix this, although I leave for Sioux City, IA in a couple hours frown . I sure wished I could reach the adapter to just replace the hose/tubing.


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Yep, that's air hose.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
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Originally Posted By: sprkplug
I had to look it up, but I think you may be correct. It looks like a spool adapter. How far down in the casing is it?


Exactly 5', Tony

Originally Posted By: sprkplug
Yep, that's air hose.


Par for the course at this place!

Last edited by Lovnlivin; 04/25/14 09:54 AM.

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Well....

1) Cut the casing off at a distance that would allow you to reach in and access the hose clamp, and then weld it back on. Not very practical.

2) Get lots of help, as in pretty much everyone you know, screw in the T wrench tight as you can, and have a go at pulling it out. My arms ache just thinking about it.

3) Call in a pro......I know.

4) Any chance that the leaks in the blue hose stop before reaching the adapter, giving you a shot at cutting off the hose below the rotten parts and splicing in a section of new hose? Sure, it's not the right thing to do, but sometimes you have to weigh the options. It might last a few more years, or leak again tomorrow however.


That's all I got......


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Thanks again, SPRK!

#4 is what I'm about to find out. Hopefully the majority of leaks are towards the top so I can do just that,,,, for now at least. Even eliminating several of the leaks would help.

And there's very little on the web about removing spool-type adapters.

Any suggestions on good tubing, or just use the same type of air-line? It's only supplying pressure to the switch, not feeding the home.


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I am only seeing the case seal to keep the water below frost line?..

Works like an expansion plug, usually has bolts that need to be loosened to release it from the well case sides..

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Originally Posted By: Lovnlivin
Thanks again, SPRK!

#4 is what I'm about to find out. Hopefully the majority of leaks are towards the top so I can do just that,,,, for now at least. Even eliminating several of the leaks would help.

And there's very little on the web about removing spool-type adapters.

Any suggestions on good tubing, or just use the same type of air-line? It's only supplying pressure to the switch, not feeding the home.


Did you turn the power of before working on it? shocked 220 can give you a heck of a jolt. Did that once behind a wash machine. Wo! crazy

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 04/25/14 10:34 AM.

If pigs could fly bacon would be harder to come by and there would be a lot of damaged trees.






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Originally Posted By: Lovnlivin
Thanks again, SPRK!

#4 is what I'm about to find out. Hopefully the majority of leaks are towards the top so I can do just that,,,, for now at least. Even eliminating several of the leaks would help.

And there's very little on the web about removing spool-type adapters.

Any suggestions on good tubing, or just use the same type of air-line? It's only supplying pressure to the switch, not feeding the home.


At this point, I would simply try and match the inner diameter of the existing hose, to facilitate splicing. I don't see that you have much to lose by using the same stuff.....we've pretty much thrown the book out the window anyway. grin


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Looks like someone just used parts lying around to put this together. I know nothing about a spool adaptor, but that air service hose is fine for water use.

Last edited by Rainman; 04/25/14 11:05 AM.


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Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
Did you turn the power of before working on it? shocked 220 can give you a heck of a jolt. Did that once behind a wash machine. Wo! crazy

LOL, yessir I did! The shutoff is right near the well

Originally Posted By: sprkplug
At this point, I would simply try and match the inner diameter of the existing hose, to facilitate splicing. I don't see that you have much to lose by using the same stuff.....we've pretty much thrown the book out the window anyway. grin

It's now a moot point, Tony as the leaks begin from the bottom, too many that it just plain needs replaced. But not with air-line!

Originally Posted By: outdoorlivin247
I am only seeing the case seal to keep the water below frost line?..

Works like an expansion plug, usually has bolts that need to be loosened to release it from the well case sides..

I've seen a type of well-spool while researching, used for flowing artesian wells and possibly in other wells with a very high-rising static head to keep the water below it, but with the hole (access hole) shown, I don't think it's that type, or at least hope it's not that type!

Thanks so much everyone, for taking the time to try and help me with this. I so much appreciate it!

Any other ideas or information on removing the spool are certainly welcomed and appreciated!

I gotta get packed for the weekend but I'll check back when I can. And you can bet I'll be checking with the 600+ pool players in this tournament. Maybe I'll get lucky and shoot against a team of well-drillers grin

Last edited by Lovnlivin; 04/25/14 11:27 AM.

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Just looked on pumpsandtanks.com and it sounds like you have an older oring style pitless adapter...Most of the threads say have fun...LOL..

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That is a mess LL, and like everyone else, have never seen a rig set up that way.

Good call on replacing the hose (it's not a tube), but replace it with something that's for potable water and drinking water safe (FDA stuff and compliance)

Who knows what the heck that hose is made of, and if it has degraded so far with pin holes and such, you are ingesting what ever it's made of.

It's incorrect to think that an air hose would be a wise choice replacement, or ever using one in the first place!!!

Ever drink water out of a garden hose, and it tastes like crap? Then get a drink out of the same faucet without the hose, and it's great!?

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