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I tried to find a thread on Pond Boss regarding the article that recently appeared in BassMaster Magazine regarding Gary Schwarz's of La Perla Ranch in south Texas attempt to grow a Texas State or World Record bass and could not find one. Here is the link to the article. I would be curious to get some opinions; especially thoughts about Prawns and the comment found on page 3.

Quote:
Once a hybridized bass is introduced, the pure Florida genetics will eventually be bred out of the bass population.


http://www.bassmaster.com/tips/building-world-record-bass

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Steve, I read that article the other night. The prawns deal interests me, and as you know, they're readily available close to DFW. The only issue for me is the preferred water temp. IIRC, it's in the same range as tilapia, so they'd need to be seasonal in North East TX also.

I'll pass on any comments about F1 vs pure Florida debate. Schwarz himself said the pure Floridas with the overabundance of forage he had were almost uncatchable. That might just be the owner wanting higher catch rates. Who knows?

Very interesting read though.

Last edited by FireIsHot; 04/15/14 05:18 PM.

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I'd be interested to see if adding Rainbow Trout to the mix during the cooler months would help. Look at some of the lakes in So. Cal. - Dixon, etc.


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I find that very interesting. However, if I were to bet money, I would put it on the next record LMB in the US being from one of those California lakes, and getting fat eating rainbow trout. wink

California has had several over 20 lbs, more than any other state.


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If one had deep pockets, the things they could do...

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Northern Bluegill are cooler hehe smile


I believe in catch and release. I catch then release to the grease..

BG. CSBG. LMB. HSB. RES.

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Travis, I thought the same thing.

I have to wonder if lmb pellets would do the same thing on bass?

BTW, I drank the LabLab Koolaid quite a few years ago. The deer on my place never ate it.


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Originally Posted By: MSC
I find that very interesting. However, if I were to bet money, I would put it on the next record LMB in the US being from one of those California lakes, and getting fat eating rainbow trout. wink

California has had several over 20 lbs, more than any other state.


MSC, I agree with that.

There was a 25 pounder foul hooked at Dixon several years ago. IIRC, that fish was caught or seen repeatedly over the years.

Last edited by FireIsHot; 04/16/14 05:55 AM.

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There was an attempt to tank grow a world record size largemouth, I believe back in the 70's. Apparently it was given up as just heavily feed a fish will grow a large fish, but not necessarily a record fish.

There are other things in play than just feed in producing a record fish, let alone a one in a million world record fish. One of the issues one runs into is a fast growing fsh has a shorter lifespan. One analogy used is a burning candle to show that fast growing fish will just burn out quicker.

I believe along with a good food supply a record fish is a genetic anamoly. I believe not only is it a fast growing fish but it posseses a gene to give it a longer than normal lifespan not penalized by the faster growth.

Case in point: I caught a yellow perch out of my pond that eclipsed our state record by 5 oz. and was over 16 inches in length. According to a friend that keeps track of yellow perch records in various states, a yellow perch over 16 inches is extremely rare. Very few but this one since 2005 exceeded much over 15 inches in my pond. 15 inches seems to be a barrier they rarely exceed even with ample feed.

I am doing something different now that may produce larger perch than I have been doing previously, but time will tell. That is the YOY hatched in a pond are brought inside in the fall to continue to grow over the winter and then faster growing females are planted into the all female pond in the spring. I am also going to establish a fathead minnow population (no bass present to decimate them) to provide additional nutrition other than pellets especially in the winter under the ice.

I presently have 11 inch perch in a basement tank that are just coming up on 1 years old. In the wild a 1 year old perch averages 3 to 4 inches.

That said, this may only produce large fish faster, but no record size fish due to the faster growth and possible shorter life spans.


Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 04/16/14 06:58 AM.

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I think genetics has a lot to do with getting the right bass to world record size. That being said, the fish with the correct genetics in a bad pond/lake wont achieve his maximum weight anyway.

I would personally rather have the pond with the right resources to start and work on the genetics.

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Originally Posted By: Lukkyseven
I think genetics has a lot to do with getting the right bass to world record size. That being said, the fish with the correct genetics in a bad pond/lake wont achieve his maximum weight anyway.

I would personally rather have the pond with the right resources to start and work on the genetics.


Absolutely. I think that's a given.

Another thing I've noticed is some of my fish seem to have an eating disorder, as in can't get enough to eat. Most of my yellow perch will take a pellet here and there, but I'd had a few that are like swimming vacuum cleaners and will eat and eat and eat. It's as if the mechanism in their brain that tells them they are full isn't working. I had a small bass once eat 22 pellets in a row. At number 22 he acted like he was having trouble swimming. LOL A fish like that is going to put on some considerable weight even if it is fatty tissue.

The record bass coming out of California looking incredibly obsese with bulging eyeballs.


Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 04/16/14 08:36 AM.

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IMO it is the right combination of both nature and nurture that grows big fish. Genetics, diet, time, and water temps all play a role.

Artificial feed can grow big fish, but it might might not let them live long enough to grow to record a size.



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Originally Posted By: Shorty
IMO it is the right combination of both nature and nurture that grows big fish. Genetics, diet, time, and water temps all play a role.

Artificial feed can grow big fish, but it might might not let them live long enough to grow to record a size.


And since we don't have species specific feed, the one size fits all approach may not be the best for their health. I.e., lots of fatty deposits and fatty livers due to too many carbs in the diet.

Last edited by Cecil Baird1; 04/16/14 10:00 AM.

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Originally Posted By: esshup
I'd be interested to see if adding Rainbow Trout to the mix during the cooler months would help. Look at some of the lakes in So. Cal. - Dixon, etc.


I was wondering the same thing. What about adding tilapia also to help take pressure off of the shad and BG? Or may it be approaching a carrying capacity limit?

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Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
Originally Posted By: Shorty
IMO it is the right combination of both nature and nurture that grows big fish. Genetics, diet, time, and water temps all play a role.

Artificial feed can grow big fish, but it might might not let them live long enough to grow to record a size.


And since we don't have species specific feed, the one size fits all approach may not be the best for their health. I.e., lots of fatty deposits and fatty livers due to too many carbs in the diet.


Yep, this is the reason I have been feeding my five aquarium redears FHMs, night crawlers, and bloodworms rather than pellets over the winter.



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I don't think a pellet fed bass or one that is even 50% pellet fed will ever get near the world record.

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I think the midwest is a sleeper for growing trophy bass... typically we dont have adequate forage or optimum water quality for our bass for 12 months per year. As we get the water quality optimum for 12 months per year and we get the forage figured out for 12 months per year we are going to grow bigger bass than Texas, Florida, and California in private bodies of water.

Bass will grow over the winter months, they just dont typically have much of anything to eat in the typical midwestern body of water during the winter....

Also the fish born in the lake or pond are not the ones that have a chance at growing into trophies.... take the stress out of a bass's life in the first year or two or three and then stock her into the lake or pond that is prepped and ready and you will really start to see unnatural things happening in terms of fish growth.......


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Nate,

So you think a bass will grow at maximum temps of 39 F. under the ice where metabolism is almost nil?


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I will say that in the article, the person with the pond said he would be feeding the forage base. Not attempting to feed the bass on pellets. I actually like that approach.

It makes sense to me. Not sure if it's optimal, but I'm not in that field wink

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Originally Posted By: Cecil Baird1
Nate,

So you think a bass will grow at maximum temps of 39 F. under the ice where metabolism is almost nil?


39 degrees is a bit much but those huge California LMB reside in lakes where the water temps are favorable to supporting rainbow trout year round. Not too cold, not too hot, basically a Goldilocks zone. wink

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There is a lot of data on LMB growth and metabolism. I don't see any evidence that mid-west LMB will produce multiple 20 lb LMB. Conditions and genetics.
















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Ewest, our Nebraska state record LMB is 10 lbs. 12 oz. and I don't think it will be broken any time soon.



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Originally Posted By: n8ly
As we get the water quality optimum for 12 months per year and we get the forage figured out for 12 months per year we are going to grow bigger bass than Texas, Florida, and California in private bodies of water.


Nate, I love you, but I think you are stirring the pot on this statement.

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Originally Posted By: Shorty
Ewest, our Nebraska state record LMB is 10 lbs. 12 oz. and I don't think it will be broken any time soon.


I give Condello less than 2 years to do it.


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I find it interesting that the original record 22lb 4oz LMB was caught in Georgia, back in 1932. No one even considers GA for a new record, or even Florida. What happened?


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