Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations Unintended Expiriment

Bruce, that's VERY true. One client has 4 ponds on his place. 2 of them were completed within a year of each other, and both were approximately the same size, and stocked with the same fish. One only had a windmill aeration system, the other had a windmill AND an electric compressor system. One winterkilled 2 years ago, the other one didn't. Same depth, etc. Both were actually light on fish numbers.

Northern pond owners should follow advice offered by forum experts,[including veteran pond owners and pond/fishery management professionals] who recommend periodic shallow water aeration or well irrigation to open of areas of PROLONGED snow covered or thick, opaque ice which may interrupt photosynthesis and result in a lethal DO sag. No aeration or well irrigation - one can remove strips of snow to ensure light penetration with snow-blower or shovel.

TJ,

I'm thinking that many biologists that are not involved in pond management are not familiar with using air to circumvent fish kills in ponds. I think they are even less familiar with the superchill phenomenon as most are used to dealing with larger deeper bodies of water where temps are more stable. At least this has been my limited observation.

Precisely why it's so valuable to have resources like yourself, Sue, Bruce, Cody, Eric, et al with real experience here to provide direction for guys like myself. Thank you!

Many things about ponds are assumed unless testing is done. i.e. temp, actual amount of O2, etc. Very few pondmeisters take water samples and have them tested, few even take temp readings and I'll bet that other than the professionals here, you can count on one hand the number of people who have equipment that can measure dissolved O2.

So, that's where I'm getting the "assumed" statement. Unless you test and verify, it's an assumption. Sure, the fish might live, but what were the O2 levels? Could 50 more pounds of biochemical demand caused a fishkill? Without testing, you'd never know.

Things in ponds change so fast, that what may be true today or tomorrow might not be true 4 days from now.

Thanks to all that have responded. I do feel that in the interest of fairness and full diclosure I should let everyone know that a few years back when I was a new "Pond Boss" I corresponded with one of the affore mentioned "experts" and was told that based on the specifications of my pond, I should be OK letting it freeze up over the winter. The reason for starting this thread was to let people know that they didn't have to "panic" with ice on their pond as long as the dynamics were correct. Pond owners that need to "panic" are the ones with unusuall circumstances which I'm guessing most here don't have because we planned our ponds well in advance. Again, when I begin feeding and I can asess the total population of fish in my pond I will let you all know the results. I am not trying to naively tell anyone how to manage their pond. I just saw some warnings that seemed way off-based for the situations.

Keep us informed, Jeff. We are always willing and wanting to learn more!

One pondmeisters so-called "panic" is another's "Taking steps to try and eliminate a worst case scenario"...........

I'm pretty comfortable with planning and preparing for the worst, rather than simply hoping for the best.

Even with controlled indoor tank systems, and both being identical, (loads and all) they won't work the same! High end stuff might be up to a 10% differential on how they work.

I know that both feed training rigs, even tho they will be identical, won't work the same.

I am new to owning a pond.. My pond is also fairly young by pond standards, dug in 2002ish.. I joined this forum because it does have great info and great people.. BUT, I don't take anything I read on the internet as the gospel.. I have been involved in enough forums to read and then read some more.. I am one of the people that cleared ice most of the winter.. Why? Because I wanted my fish to live, oh and the fact that I wanted to give my family a place to skate.. Did I worry to much about my pond this winter, yep that's just who I am.. Do I let my boys ride their bikes without helmets? Yep, do I worry about them crashing and getting hurt, yep..

My pond appears to be okay.. I still have ice but am seeing more and more activity daily.. Have I heard horror stories besides PB this year, yep.. I friend a few years older than me had a major fish kill this year and he never had problems before either.. I guess the little but of time I spent out on the ice working this year keeps me healthy... And it gives my neighbors something to talk about..

No one to my knowledge is arguing against allowing a pond to ice over. Most of us are ice fisherman and can't wait until freeze up. What several have posted and I reiterated just hours ago that is prolonged snow covered or very opaque ice can lead to DO sags and kill events. IF you have long periods of snow covered ice, it's wise to pop some holes and allow light penetration and also out-gassing. Ponds with significant aquatic vegetation, run a little more shallow, or are exhibiting signs of eutrophication are especially vulnerable to these conditions and subsequent kill event. These are common characteristics on many ponds, and in my opinion are not "unusual" nor do they intimate the ponds were not well thought out or planned. Understand - after we excavate our ponds every subsequent second of every day that hole is trying be become a marsh, and then a meadow. These characteristics are the natural course of the life of a pond, and our jobs is to read these cues, take measures wherever possible to help slow down the aging process, but ultimately most of our excavated ponds are facing a finite lifetime without very invasive steps taken to prolong their life. These guidelines are based on decades of experience and empirical facts and designed to help steer experienced and rookie pond owners alike away from a winter-kill event as many of our ponds share these characteristics. Maybe I'm confused over what is being debated here, but I will always advise that an ounce of prevention is a wise course to follow considering what's at stake.

Fish kills occur due to many different variables. Each variable influences the others. Together they can interact to cause problems of differing degrees at different times. How they interact "all depends". What did not cause you problems 5 or 10 years ago can now have different impacts. The aging process (eutrophication) can have a big effect on how the pond ecosystem responds. Very similar to your own body.

Interesting thread. Ya know, I'll bet I have killed way over a million fish when my curiosity gets me in an experimenting mood.

Frankly, I have not been paying much attention to the Aeration threads, so I have no idea if there's Gloom & Doom about fish kills being projected or not, but here's a related article....

http://www.startribune.com/sports/251724781.html

Sunil - Very good article about fish kills in MN. Thanks for finding and posting it. I expect more posts here about dead fish in northern ponds when the ice melts.

Most of the lakes in our part of the state (southwest corner)are shallow and winter kills are expected. The Star-Tribune has become a regional so they would not make the effort to interview DNR officials in other parts of the state. I believe winter kill issues are probably state-wide in scope.

Many northern Indiana folks listing fishkills over on iceShanty.com.

I am glad to report that, at the minimum, I didn't have a total fish kill in my main neighborhood retention pond.

We lost about 6' of depth over the brutal winter.

Yesterday, I saw bluegill, LMB, and (2) HSB. The bluegill and HSB were hitting feed.

This pond is 1/4" acre when full. Now, it's about 1/10 or 1/2 of an acre.

Originally, I stocked (20) HSB. Soon after, I saw at least ten morts of HSB.

So going into the winter, I had (10) or less HSB.

Frankly, I thought the HSB would be the first to die off due to the severe drop in water level, thick ice, and just generally bad winter conditions.

The fact that at least (2) of them made it gives me high hopes.

Was placing X-mas trees a few mins back. Disturbed the shoreline and saw one of my adult stocker bluegill dead and covered with dust/algae/debris.

Could have die from old age. No other fishkill signs yet, but anticipate more if we saw that one BG so easily.

Just got a call from a client. His cousin walked the bank and gave up after counting over 300 fish. 14' deep pond, about an acre in size.

I cannot really believe that I escaped unscathed. I am still scouting for floaters.

My SE Mich. pond is still frozen over but should open up in a couple of days.
Here's an article about MI lakes from 2 days ago:

http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20140329/METRO/303290026/Harsh-winter-may-snag-angling-season

OK....time to put this to bed. I started feeding about 2 weeks ago but was out of town all last week. It is in the 70's today and the schools of HSB are cruising the beach area. There has been no mortality that is detectable. I've seen plenty of HSB & YP feeding on the AM 500. The reason for starting this thread to begin with was because I noticed that some new pond owners were getting a little "excited" about some of the things they were reading and the questions they were asking told me that they were getting worried about their situations......and quite frankly I started to question mine. What happend this year on my pond tells me that I have nothing to worry about with winter-kill as long as I maintain the same mgmt. strategy that I have been using. Anyone who read my initial post should be able to take the same comfort as long as their pond dynamics are similar to mine (unless your pond is in Anarctica). Again, I am 56yo and this was one of the worst winters in OHIO that I have experienced. Thanks much for all the input and I hope one(two)pond owner got something out of this. Jeff

Jeff,

Good for you but as a pond ages one's chance of winterkill goes up if one does not do anything proactive. Just remember the snow is the white death, and you can still have some deep snow without the exceptional cold we had this winter. Depending on the age of the pond and depth of snow, oxygen problems can happen quicker than you think.

OK. But respectfully, Jeff, all you can conclude from your 'experiment' is that you don't know if you did or didn't have any kind of fish kill for any kind of reason.

When you have a pond, as a minor example, you see dead fish all the time. Does any of it mean you had a fish kill?

I think when you see no dead fish, what you can safely conclude is....I don't know if I had any kind of a fish kill or not.