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#37150 10/06/04 11:11 PM
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I know this is a common topic...

We started shrimp harvest today (not going well.. \:\( ) and I've come to discover that the pond ( 1/4 acre, max 5 ft. depth in low spot) is FILLED with this crap. I have a few questions:

1. Does this significantly contribute to low D.O.?

2. Does anyone have a suggestion for a product to
add to the pond to fight this, or am I stuck
with it?

Nasty, nasty yucky stuff.

I *think* I've been having D.O. problems for awhile with my pond, the shrimp started hugging the shorelines about a month ago. Tested D.O. in the a.m. and it read 2 mg/L, increased to 5 mg/L in the late afternoon. Shrimp disappeared from the shores around noon.

We aerated the heck out of the pond: Koenders windmill, and, after the discovery of the lower D.O. 2 air compressors as an emergency measure, one which pumped continuously from 7 a.m. to 8 p.m. and another one that pumped through a membrane continuously. Still didn't help the shrimp hugging the shore. B/f thinks it was temp related, this year was cool for SW Kansas and as a result I didn't get the pond temps I was needing for them to flourish.. he thinks they cam to shore seeking heat.. I'm not so sure of that.

ANYWAYS, looking for suggestions on the muck problem. It's lined and I can't dredge it. Anyone?

#37151 10/07/04 04:24 PM
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Get an aerator that will cycle the water of your size pond. It needs to be down with the muck. You also may need several heads or slowly move it around over time. Make sure that you don't run it constantly at first as too much of that stuff will cause a fish kill.

You will increase the D.O. , reduce or iliminate the muck, and get rid of the smell.

An Aerator is the best investment you can make for your pond and its wildlife. I puit one in this summer on a less than 1 year old pond and was amazed at the smell that came up from the bottom initially. Now there is no smell at all. We now run it 24 hours a day during the warm months. Not sure yet what i'll do as it gets cold. Need to consult some experts and see what they say.

#37152 10/07/04 06:04 PM
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Troutgal,
Try to describe the condition of your pond. Be objective as if you just walked up & observed it.
Was the water colored b-4 harvesting? What color?
Is the muck suspended?
Why are you aerating during the day? DO drops at night when no oxygen is being produced by algea & plants reaching it's lowest early am.


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#37153 10/07/04 11:25 PM
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Ok to answer questions:

I *do* have an aerator, wind driven, SHOULD be sufficient for my little pond as the wind in Kansas is nearly always blowing!! Have had a few windless days but they are outnumbered by the days there IS a breeze. Stone was down in the deepest part.

Water color: green. Kind of a transparent dark green, don't really notice it unless I scopp a bucket and pitch it out. Used pond blue when first filled in April, again in July.

Windpowered aerator operates, well.. constantly as there is wind. One compressor cycles 24 hours, this was a backup when I discovered the low DO and shrimp accumulating along the shore. The other compressor is gas driven; it runs about 4 hours and therefore I can't get up at 2 am to refill it with gas. It also was backup due to the low DO.

Even with the 3 methods of aeration I am getting a MAXIMUM reading of 5 mg/L DO (titration).

Muck is on the bottom - kind of a green skin to it but when disturbed reveals a slimy, black, goopy, stinking slop. Oh.. and LOTS of water bugs.. LOTS.. apparently not enough MOVEMENT to deter mosquitos.. have some red colored worms, water boatmen, huge carnivorous diving beetles and others, including damselflies and mayflies.

I don't have a filamentous algae problem, there is very little algae actually other than that contributing to the green tone of the water.

pH is 8, alkalinity was 170 mg/L (I think that as the right measurement) temp maxed out at about 72. Ammonia, nitrates and nitrites were extremely minimal.

Appreciate the suggestions!!

#37154 10/08/04 02:36 PM
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Do you have minnows and or grass carp in your pond? If not you may want to consider both as the minnows will make short work of the larva, bugs , etc. and the carp may help with the green stuff. Sounds like it may be from the algae. Also the minnows love the plankton (algae) as well.

What other fish do you have? Are you sure about the disolved nitrogen? Someting is feeding that green slim that turns to muck. If there is too much then that would explain over growth of the plant material.

#37155 10/08/04 08:46 PM
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Troutgal, If you have the standard Koender 7 inch round airstone on your windmill this could be part of the problem, I realize that it may appear to be aerating things but you are probably less than .7-1 turn per day on your total water volume, no matter how much wind you have. 1-1.5 CFM through that stone at a 5 ft depth may move 150 -200 GPM at best which is not much vertical current.Large bubbles in shallow water will not circulate (aerate) Your DO in 75 degree F water should be 8.4 at sea level, figure 70-90 % is realistic and you see what your shotfall is. You could be turning 1300-1500 GPM at that depth 5ft, with the proper diffuser. Do some homework on diffusers and see if that does not solve most of the DO problems which in turn may solve the rest of the problems and symptoms.Good Luck Ted

#37156 10/09/04 07:32 AM
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Tuzz -

I have only freshwater shrimp in the pond, no minnows - although next year I am planning mosquitofish to combat THAT problem. I really don't think I have much of an algae problem other than the dark green tint to the water, but I could very well be wrong!

Ted -

Yes, I WAS running the originl Koenders'a 7" airstone. I have purchased the Aquatic Eco diffuser membrane (Flexair 9") that everyone mentions on here, it was definitely outperforming the stone (although by the time we drained the pond down the stone was beginning to be covered in mosquito larve pods).

I'm letting the pond dry out for a few days before I refill it.

So, no comments on the bacteria from Aq. Eco? I'm guessing most people feel it's not necessary?

#37157 10/09/04 09:20 AM
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Troutgal, try running a "pair" of those flex air's as if you running a single unit you still may be under circulating. A flex air is better than the stone you were using but by itself is still a weak link in your system.Ted

#37158 10/09/04 10:32 AM
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Troutgal - You have several complex issues going on in your shrimp pond.

1. I assume from your limited description and my limited understanding of our situation that you are a first-timer trying to raise shrimp/prawns on a semi-production-hobby basis.

Here are my initial thoughts.

A. A Koenders windmill is not intended for use in aquaculture crop production ponds that are highly eutrophic with large amounts of organics/wastes from the culture organisms, decaying uneaten food and tremendous numbers of other growing & naturally dying/decomposing organisms in a highly enriched habitat such as yours. The windmill is a good concept but not for situations like yours, unless you have 4 of them on your pond. Under the right conditions, even with 4 windmills, on a calm air night it can still result in exausted DO in the morning. You need aeration "over-kill" to produce high amounts of dependable compressed air to keep your entire pond constantly circulating. You have a crop here and do not want to lose it.

If I was in your situation, I would have a 3/4 hp rotary vane compressor that produces 9cfm at 2-3psi (4'-6' deep). Run it cheaper with 220V. This compressor initioal cost would have been less than the cost of the windmill. I would also have a 1/4 -1/3 hp rotary vane compressor or similar unit as a back up when the 3/4 is down for maintance/etc. Your gasoline unit sounds acceptble. I would use 3-4 membrane diffusers with the rotary vane unit to keep the pond circulating. In your small pond you MAY not need to run the 3/4 hp unit constantly but this run time would be based on numerous tests from various DO pond profiles throughout the growing season. Continual night and cloudy day running would I think be a necessity.

Shrimp willnot grow well in low DO conditions. In low DO they are too busy just trying to survive let alone grow. Better and stronger circulations will: 1 improve growth rates of shrimp, 2. increase production in pounds of shrimp, 3. improve muck digestion processing, 4. keep shrimp healthier and help improve final quality of product.

B. As Ted suggested, the shallow depth detracts from the circulation ability of any diffuser. All diffusers "work" better in deeper waters due to the characteristics of air lift technology. Not all diffusers are equal and in a case like yours you need the most efficient style; a crop is in the balance. You get minimal affect from a diffuser at 5 ft deep compared to one at 15ft deep and you have to compensate with more diffusers to get adeqate pond turnover and circulation esp in aquaculture production conditions. In your pond, you are approaching conditions of waste treatment rather than regular fish pond setting and should be using somewhat different concepts to facilitate the processing of all the organic wastes.

C. You are not adequately processing the organic waste. Proof of this is all the black muck that has built up during this past growing season. This muck turns black, does not decompose well and accumulates when it loses oxygen. Efficient processors of the muck need oxygen and lots of it. When oxygen is gone in the muck zone processors can NOT survive and do not operate; thus muck turns black and builds up.

D. Yes bacterial additions would help your situation IF oxygen is present in all areas of muck accumulation. I would not soley rely on Aquatic Eco microbial products in your situation. I think you need better more specialized bacterial products. Check on Keeton Industries microbes at www.keetonaquatics.com Jim Keeton has shrimp raising experience and is familiar with problems of shrimp raisers.

E. I would do some more homework this winter about shrimp raising. Now that you know more about some of your particular problems you can better quiz other shrimp raisers and educators. Check with your State univeristy extension specialist or other state specialists. For starters try past newsletters from Kentucky www.aquanic.org/newsktrs/state/kentucky.htm and at www.ksuaquaculture.org.

Also remember to check into what other shrimp raisers use for emergency aeration. Bottom diffused aeration is VERY POOR for emergency aeration.

F. Next year to combat insect/invertebrate problems explore the dual crop concept. Research this and try adding some other type of fish that will help control the "bugs" and then be marketable at years end; maybe some fish for pond stocking or eating. Some raise minnows that are too small to eat the newly stocked shrimp, stock fish that do nte eat shrimp, or stock fish later after shrimp are too large to be a forage item.

G. Your real green water is typical of a production system like yours. The heavy bloom phytoplankton is very beneficial at adding oxygen to the water by day but it can be deadly at night or during several days of cloudiness and then a night period or when the algae bloom crashes, esp in hot days of July or August. BE very cautious of late night and early morinig DO's during these periods.

H. Your problem of shrimp at the surface-water's edge was very proably a DO problem and had litle to do with shrimp seeking warmer water. Your advisor was naive and it was a poor conclusion esp when your DO reading was 2.0. DO was undoubtedly even lower in deeper water. Your shrimp won't lie about low DO.

Comments - Questions? PS When you reply please include:
1. your estimate of how much or how thick the muck was on the pond bottom,
2. how old the pond was or what muck was like at the start of the year.

3. How much feed you were adding to 1/4 ac per day.


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#37159 10/09/04 06:15 PM
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WOW!! What an answer!

Bill that was awesome. Thanks a million.

The pond itself is(was) new, constructed and filled in April - it is lined and therefore there was NO substrate other than clay we added when it was filled.

The muck thickness at this point is about 3 inches average, of course lower on the sidewalls and more so on the flat areas.

I was feeding according to the graph Aq. of Texas gave me, which was 24-75 # per surface acre. Since I was a 1/4 acre I started with 8 # of feed after the shrimp were 60 days old and increased to 16 pounds towards the end. I could see areas the feed was not being cleaned up and therefore did not increase to the 18.75 # the chart recommends.

I *did* speak with a person at KSU regarding the activity in the pond.. at which point we decided to increase the aeration for the remainder of the season.

I'm not totally devastated with the outcome and my circumstances, this was a learning (and will continue to be) experience and I will most definitely do it again next year. With more diffusers.. and an insect eater \:D


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