Pond Boss Forums AERATION Systems questions I there any good non elec. aeration systems?

Divide ug/l by 1000 to get ppm or mg/l.

Looks like a little dab will do ya if you're a crayfish!

All the everclear is used. I do have a diffuser here, and some 91% iso. Some bottom line tubing too.

We looking for brittleness, or other signs of degredation?

Look for it to soften up first.

I'm only guessing at this moment, but think the diffuser housings may be an acetate resin due to the mechanical integrity of the diffuser. Don't know for sure tho. Ted??? Sue???

Polyvinyl acetate is fish friendly! It's also really cheap to produce!!!

Okay, I received a reply from Koender to my query regarding an acceptable air line antifreeze.

My question, as put to Koender:

to sales


Good morning..

I'm writing in regards to your freeze control unit, specifically the recommendation for isopropyl alcohol as the anti-freeze agent. My question involves the possible side effects of using alcohol in an environment containing plastic and rubber components. I've seen too many instances in other applications where alcohol caused deterioration of both rubber and plastic....I realize that isopropyl alcohol is a wonderful antifreeze, but have the long range effects of adding it tinto the system been evaluated? I would feel safer using RV antifreeze in this application, and would greatly appreciate hearing your thoughts on this.

Koender's response:(and I really appreciate them taking the time to respond...that means something to me in this day and age.)

Doug Hicks doug@mail.koenderswindmills.com
Mar 30 (1 day ago)

to me, sales


Tony,
Many customers do use RV Anti-Freeze - others use methol hydrate. As manufacturers of the systems we recommend using any non-toxic alcohol based solutions. Isopropynol being one of them.
Regards
Doug

So it appears that either is acceptable. I am confused as to the referencing of isopropyl being non-toxic. According to the msds I saw, it's listed as being highly toxic to aquatic life?

Tony,

Maybe it depends on the concentration/ dilution rate?

That surely must be it Cecil.



ECOTOXICITY DATA:

FISH TOXICITY: 730 ug/L 96 hour(s) LC50 (Mortality) Brook trout (Salvelinus

fontinalis)



INVERTEBRATE TOXICITY: 3142000 ug/L 48 hour(s) EC20 (Biomass) Ciliate

Protozoa (Tetrahymena thermophila)



ALGAL TOXICITY: 2200 ug/L 96 hour(s) EC50 (Growth) Green algae (Chlorella

pyrenoidosa)



FATE AND TRANSPORT:

BIOCONCENTRATION: 0.38 ug/L 15 hour(s) BCF (Residue) Red swamp crayfish

(Procambarus clarki) 10 ug/L



ENVIRONMENTAL SUMMARY: Highly toxic to aquatic life.

Wow those are some low concentrations! A lot lower than I thought!

Btw does isopropyl alcohol mix well with water?

I believe so. Many alcohols are extremely hygroscopic.

Yanked from a bicycle forum. I knew that Methanol, Ethanol and Isopropyl were different but not sure how different they were.

Methyl hydrate is also known as methanol, methyl alcohol or wood alcohol. Denatured alcohol is almost pure ethanol, also known as ethyl alcohol, plain alcohol, grain alcohol, moonshine or sippin' whiskey. Stuff is added to ethanol to make it either distasteful or poisonous to make it denatured. Sometimes, and there are dozens of ways to denature ethanol, methanol is added to ethanol. This makes it poisonous. Methanol is highly poisonous and is rather readily absorbed through the skin while ethanol is only moderately poisonous and not as easily absorbed. Consuming methanol will lead to blindness, convulsions and death at a fairly low level of consumption. Methanol is also more flammable than ethanol. It is therefore not a good substitute for denatured alcohol.

Chemically methanol has 1 carbon, ethanol has 2 carbons and isopopyl alcohol has 3 carbons. Flammability goes down with increasing carbon content because volatility also goes down with increasing carbon content.

I know that methanol is very corrosive in regards to some rubber and to aluminum. We'd have to coat the injection system and the intake manifold of the dragster at the end of the day to prevent it from corroding with WD-40. The fuel tank was aluminum, but hard anodized inside and out, so there was no corrosion. IIRC we used Stainless for the fuel line and the fuel pump was rated for use with methanol. We didn't have to worry about a rubber fuel line because the motor was solidly mounted to the chassis - no rubber mounts.

I just finished burying 1" poly 100psi pipe to run air from my Gast 0523 in my workshop 500 ft downhill to my 1 acre pond. At the pond, in an irrigation box above flood level, I have a manifold with two ball valves splitting the air for two 5/8" 100 ft weighted airlines to two Vertex XL2 diffusers.
I bought the poly pipe at Lowes @ $28 per 100 ft roll. Ditch Witch rental was $150/day and it took less than a day to trench 12"-18" deep by 500 ft. My wife helped with the uncoiling, connecting, and clamping. My tractor with box blade was very helpful during the recovering. My pond is about 80 miles west of Fort Worth so I am not worried about freezing condensation in pipe buried 12" deep. If I was, I would have found the low spot, dug a dry well and put in a tee and valve for draining.
You don't say where in Oklahoma you are, but you're welcome to come see my installation.
Now if it would just rain! My poor diffusers are sitting in less than 3 ft of water.

Isopropanol and ethanol are both infinitely miscible in water in all proportions.

Guys thanks for all the replies. I am north of Durant Oklahoma about 35 miles , 7 miles north of a little town called Milburn.

dg84s you are a ways off. but I may come over and look at your set up one of these days.
The wife and I love a road trip and everything is a ways off for us. It sure might save me some pain and money.
Dale

Where ever you looked up that data, would it be useful to look up the data for RV anti-freeze for a side by side comparison? In other words, is RV anti-freeze better, worse or the same level of toxicity?

I found this on propylene glycol, NOT RV antifreeze itself:

12 ECOLOGICAL INFORMATION
Acute Toxicity:
Fish: Low toxicity: LC/EC/IC50 > 40,000 mg/l
Aquatic Invertebrates: Low toxicity: LC/EC/IC >4,000 mg/l
Algae: Low Toxicity: LC/EC/IC >15,000 mg/l
Microorganisms: Low Toxicity: LC/EC/IC >20,000 mg/l
Mobility: Dissolves in water. If product enters soil, it will be highly mobile and may contaminate ground water.
Persistence/degradability: Readily biodegradable.
Bioaccumulation: Does not bioaccumulate significantly.

The complete msds for propylene glycol based RV antifreeze can be found here:
http://www.bosslubricants.com/pdfs/msds/Anti%20Freezes/BOSS%20RV%20ANTIFREEZE.pdf

A section of the msds, relevant to the discussion:



ECOTOXICOLOGY: based largely or completely in information for similar material, i.e. propylene
glycol. Material is practically non-toxic to aquatic organisms on an acute basis (LC50 greater than
100mg/L in most sensitive species.
Acute LC50 for fathead minnow (Pimephales promelas) is 4600-54900 mg/L.
Acute LC50 for guppy (Poecilla reticulata) is greater than 10000mg/L.
Acute LC50 for water flea Daphine magna is 4850-34400 mg/L.
Acute LC50 for rainbow trout (Oncorhynchus mykiss) is 44mL/L (about 44000 mg/L).