Pond Boss Forums POND CONSTRUCTION Renovating a Pond or Lake? Natural North Florida Pond

I thought I'd chronicle my efforts to improve a family pond in Marianna Florida. It's about 5-6 acres with a max depth of 6-10 feet, both depending on the rain. I presume it is an old sink hole since they are all over the place in that area. I'm not sure how they got there but it contains a semingly balanced population of LMB, CNBG, warmouth and gambusia. We use it for swimming and fishing and I'd like to make it more attractive for both activities.



The water has been at the lower end of the range for several years, exposing the cover and turning the pond into a big, featureless mud hole. When the water is calm, I can see the tops of my feet to about 3 feet. I presume tannins are coming from the surrounding oaks and dying the water but old organic matter on the bottom makes it look darker than it is.





To give the fish somewhere to hang out, I tied some brush piles together and sank them 40 or so feet from shore. That worked pretty good and I got lazy so I started chucking limbs from the trees into the water up to about 15 feet out. The bass have been working the piles hard and I think it provided some shelter for the little guys.



I started feeding the fish in one spot, twice a day, about a year ago. At first I was using Aquamax 600 but I could only get it from a store that was out of the way so I've been using some high protein stuff from Tractor Supply. The AM600 was a little more expensive but it seemed to build the fish faster and w/ about a third more protein, should be a legitimate claim.

After reading that liming might be beneficial, I purchased cheap pH and Total Dissolved Solid meters from Amazon. The pH was 6 +/- .1 and the harndess (I pressume TDS is analogous to total hardness) was 12 ppm. I picked up a 50 lb bag of hydrolyzed lime and dumped it all in the water next to my feeder. When I came back the next week, all of the mud was gone from that area. I later learned that I should have used dolomitic lime. Oops. Fortunately, it was a small area in a relatively large BOW. It gave me hope that liming might clear up some of the organic matter on the bottom.

Last week I spent a lot of time working on the lake by adding some pallet huts, rock piles and 18 tons of ag lime.







Short of the correct equipment, I decided to rig up my trash pump to broadcast the lime. It worked pretty good but would have been better suited for a smaller BOW. The first day I pumped about half of the lime. On the second go I added 100 feet to the blue hose to get the lime a little closer to the other side. There's a pile of pea gravel in the two spots where the pipe output. A more zealous individual would have oscillated the output pipe in several locations but it was all I could do to shovel/spray the lime to the intake of the pump and was just happy to get all of it in the water.







It's hard to tell from the picture but what is normally a very dark brown/black lake looks a little milkier after the first day of pumping. The process also produced some bubbles that can be seen floating in the middle. It had all settle out come the second morning.

[img]http://i78.photobucket.com/albums/j116/jimkeith/Daffins/IMG_20130622_183448_438.jpg[/img]

18 tons was the smallest amount they'd deliver and I didn't want to make a bunch of trips with my trailer and Jeep. It was 6.80 a ton for ag lime and 5 a ton for delivery. I also bought, and self delivered, a ton of #2 lime rock for rock beds. They're about 1.5-2 inches in diameter and I placed them in 3 spots.

Totally off the topic here but I am assuming the pregant lady in the pics is your wife. All I can say is WOW !!! She is gorgeous !

Yep, she is due any day now.

Loving this. I have to admit I hadn't about using a pump like that for a lime dump before. Cheap and easy solution to a problem. Strong work

Nice work and well chronicled. Any way that helps get the lime in the water is a big help. I have shoveled and moved a lot of lime and it is hard work. Liming barges use the same pump/spray concept. I would suggest you get the water/dirt checked - it is easy and inexpensive. If yours is a sinkhole then it should be high in alkalinity as they are in limestone formations. The most productive waters around are the phosphate pits as they have natural phosphate (fertilizer) over limestone covered by water. Very high carrying capacity ( some in the 3000 lbs per acre range).

What are the size range of the species, LMB, CNBG and WM that you have caught?

What are your goals for the pond? Any submerged aquatic vegetation? Is there electricity near by so that you could instal an aeration system?

Thanks to everyone for the feedback.

LMB: YOY to 4 lbs. Most common are 1-2 lbs
CNBG: YOY to 1+ lbs. Lots of 3-5 in fish
WM: very uncommon but usually 7-8 inches

Most of my sampling is hook and line. I catch most of the bigger LMB on 3" BG. I seined last week and caught a lot of YOY BG, some 1ish yr BG and a few YOY LMB. No pictures so I might do it again this weekend.

My goals for the pond are fatter fish and a more diverse ecosystem while maintaining or improving swim friendliness.

There's some maidencane now and there used to be a lot when the water was high. After being exposed by drought we mowed it back to diversify the vegetation on the hill and enable easy access by foot. After mowing, bullrush and st john's wart, among other plants, has begun to thrive.

I planted some water lillies last year but the turtles murdered them in a matter of days. I put some fence around the a few but they didn't survive. Can I expect more aquatic vegetation from the expected changes associated with liming?

I'm thinking my next step is to add some limestone boulders for another type of cover.

The real fun is when that pipsqueak is set free... may be some time before your goals are reached based on personal experience ;-).

It is all worth it, especially when they get to go swimming in a massive swimming pond!

A week following the liming, I tested the ph and hardness and have great results to share. The pH was between 8.1 (site of liming) and 7.0 (furthest from site) and the hardness was 26-27 everywhere. This is up from 6.0 (+/- .1) and 12-13 respectively.

All of the fished seemed happy. Yesterday I added a log pile and created a marshy area out of some accidental mower ruts (no pictures of either).

I did snap some pictures of the rock piles I made last week (2000 lbs of #2 (1.5"-2")). They didn't show up but the piles are loaded with YOY LBM and BG.



Three rock piles. The third is very faint.



I expect the hardness to keep rising slowly. It'll be interesting to see where it stabilizes. Should I be shooting for a 50-200ppm concentration of carbonate for good fish growth? I'd like the habitat to get to a point that will support grass shrimp. In the less distant future, I hope to establish a GSH population.

We caught 3 LMB that were about 14"s and weight around .8 lbs. That'd be on undersize according to the size/weight chart but, as I understand it, they could be a little small after spawn. The bass I see hanging out under the fish feeder seem to be fat. I'll try and get a better population sample in a few months when they should have beefed up again.

We also caught some BG with the intent of establishing a population in a different BOW. I took it as an opportunity to survey the population. There seem to be a lot of BG in the 1-3" and a lot in the 7-9" range.

From the two samples, I deduce that the bass ran low on forage this past winter including most BG between 3 and 6 inches. The big BG survived and spawned the only other significant tier of BG, the <2" guys. This all occuring bc of the water drawdown that exposed all of the available cover. Am I way off by assuming that the 1-2" BG came from the earlier spawns of the year? Thoughts?

Some unedited video of the pond. The first one is really long and more of a screen saver than exhilarating. The feeder goes of somewhere around the 25 minute mark.




This is what's left of a little floating island I made earlier in the week. The turtles hit it really hard. I'm gonna have to make some kind of stick fence to keep them from ravaging the vegetation.

The males have come off bed and were eating good this past weekend.

I ordered a box (250k @ $275) golden shiner fry from Anderson Minnow Farm. They should be here in a month or so. They recommend one per acre but I'm not willing to pour that much money into this place. Updates to follow.

survival of fry will depend on a lot of things - but mostly habitat. Survival would be the best when stocked in a new pond. It will be interesting to see how any you are able to sample in 2016. If you know of any local ponds/lakes with established GS populations, visit the pond and notice the type of cover-habitat in that pond. Try to imitate that habitat. Note panfish will reradily eat fish fry until the fry get larger at about 3/4"-1" long and are better, faster swimmers. Then from 1"-5" long the bass feed on the GS pretty heavily.

Since you are in NF why do you not consider/use tilapia (vegetarian) to supplement your pond's food web? The occasional winter cold snaps could cause sluggish small tilapia which are easy food for the bass. Tilapia are also good guests to dinner.

Bill,

Thanks for the thoughts. I have a special place in my heart for native species so I want to avoid tilapia.

I've been thinking about ways to protect the fry as long as I can so it isn't a total loss in the first week. How fast do you think they grow? I've looked into a .125" mesh 4'x30' seine net to isolate them from as many predators as I can. Kind of a kiddie pool for a few months until they take care of themselves. The water has risen recently and covered a lot of good vegetation for them to hide in so, at minimum, it won't be fish in a barrel.

Thoughts?

I wonder how well the fry will establish without some offshore weed beds. Have you researched short forms of eel grass that grow in FL? Anyone know what types of habitat are present in ponds small lakes that have LMB and a resident population golden shiners?

Jim - from your pictures it appears that your pond currently has relatively clear water which indicates the zooplankton community is not as dense as one where the water transparency has a greenish hue and is 16"-2ft secchi disk readings. For open water inhabiting fish fry (pelegic) esp minnows-shiners to thrive there should be abundant zooplankton. GS are pelagic feeders. Have you taken any Secchi disk measurements in your pond? It would be interesting to know the pre and post lime Secchi disk readings? Adding lime should have enhanced the plankton community thus reducing the Secchi disk readings.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92624#Post92624

Bill, the local lake that has LMB and a self-sustaining populaton of GSH used to have maybe 30+% coverage with EWM. I haven't checked it since they killed the EWM a year ago. It also has a heck of a bloom in the summer; 12"-18" visibility.

There's also common carp, GSD, BCP, BG, RES, YP, PS and bullheads. There were WE, NP and BC stocked but all but a few NP are gone - no spawning habitat for them.

I know of only two pond-sm lakes that have LMB and GS. Pond has dense (abt 90%) EWM coverage and lake had lots of lilies. CJBS may have some info on this topic.

FWIW, this lake is 365 acres with a max depth of 32'. I'd say average depth is between 12 and 15'. Lots of shallow areas 10' and less. Muck bottom with some sand. It's over 100 years old, and could be over 200 years old.

For clarity sake, I'm stocking Golden Shiners not Gizzard Shad. I can't remember the acronym for the latter.

I want to establish eel grass but it's too late for that as far as the GSH's are concerned. I limed last year and the pH is now on the money. I could put some fertilizer to get the bloom going. Don't I need to apply fert before the water gets above a certain temp? I'm too young to have such an old brain...

the pond I get my GSH from is a couple acres. It has no submerged vegitation. only shore line grasses and partially submerged vegitation. It is loaded with LMB, Tilapia, Gizard shad, GSH, RES , BG, and a few small tarpon and a snook or two.

they must spawn along the banks, but it is really loaded with them...

All Tilapia (Conditional Species) in Florida were banned from possession or transport in Northern Florida, but that may have recently changed...Blue Tilapia were the only legal tilapia anyone could possess in southern Florida...

http://myfwc.com/wildlifehabitats/nonnatives/conditional-prohibited-species/conditional/

I moved about a dozen adult golden shiners into this lake today. They were overwintering in the swimming pool next door and since the water temp is near 65F, I'm hoping that they'll spawn before they get eaten. About a 6 incher jumped out of the bucket and stunned itself on a rock. I threw it out into the lake and it was eaten by a bass w/in 30 seconds. They're already helping the cause;).

I also put a 30 lb bag of 10-10-10 in a test spot. For the life of me, I can't find any 0-30-0 or anything close. My only remaining option is to have the Co-op mix up some for me. I guess not many people are using the super triple phosphate for whatever it was originally intended.

Also, the bass are on bed.

What about 10-52-4?

Give Greg a call.

http://lakework.com/cart/index.php?p=catalog&parent=5&pg=1

Thanks Esshup. I like that their product dissolves quickly. I think price is going to be the big decider. I'll post what the co-op quotes.

That fertilizer is about the consistency between sugar and flour. It dissolves almost instantly in water. If you throw a cupful in the water using a sweeping motion with your hand, it's dissolved before it sinks a couple of feet.