Pond Boss Forums AERATION Systems questions To aerate or not ?

Maybe i should have placed this I'n the questions forum.

Jamie, where are you at in WI. I am in SW corner of the state. My new pond is in process of filling right now. I may try trout at some point. Where did you get your fish from?

try Keystone in Richmond IL they are within an hour or two of you and can sell in WI

Eat my fish I'n memonnie. Ask for dave.

So what would happen guys if i flipped pond over I'n the early summer ? When water temps are cool, to get the 02 water down at bottom then only aerated on cool night? Right now I am at surface 72. 8-10 ft flat 68. Deeper holes at 64-65.

How do you do this? What kind of camera do you have?

Loretta, fishing for a living i end up with a ton of toys to use. I use a Aquaview mc with temP I'n the open water... Hard water i switch to the marcum 625 led.. I am not sponsored by either and both are great cameras with temp.

Nice.

Checked temps again today, running air at night for 5 hours. Surface was 72. And 7-10 ft flat was 67-68. Do you guys think i am safe to put trout back I'n again?

You are at the temperature 'edge'. If you don't get a hot spell you should be okay. Average air temps in the northern states are starting to gradually decline. The only problem that I foresee is if the bottom is anoxic (no DO) and you get a strong inversion. You should not have anoxic bottom water with 5 hrs of daily aeration. Are the diffusers in the deepest part of the pond???. If not maybe move them to the deep zone and gradually replace the bottom water before adding trout. Trout are probably quite sensitive to H2S brought to the surface.

The main problem as I see it is you are flying a plane (raising trout in a marginal habitat) by the "seat of your pants" - without the most important instrument - an altimeter (a way to measure DO). It can be done two ways: 1. use a relatively expensive meter that should be calibrated with each use, 2. chemical tests, relatively low cost but much more time consuming. The chemical tests are often used to check the accuracy of the meters. If you fish for a living IMO you should have a DO meter to determine thermoclines and DO as it relates to the thermocline and fish location esp the cold water species.

So with help from sue Cruz this is what I've been able to do... It's mid august with some cool nights... I've been running disfuser I'n 8 ft.. For 5 hours at night.. Suffice 67/68... 8to10 ft flat is at 63/64....12 ft holes at 64...18 ft hole at 60.... You guys think Iam ready for trout again?

Jamie:

Do you have any of those metal minnow traps? If you do, catch a few BG and put some in each trap. Close the entrances, suspend them beneath a bleach bottle or something else at the various depths for a day. Pull them up and see if the BG are still alive. If so, then you probably have enough DO at those depths for a trout to survive, if they are dead, then definately a trout wouldn't survive.

Don't use FHM, they can survive low DO that would kill a trout.

I'm only suggesting that because you don't have an O2 tester. While the temps you are seeing are O.K. as long as the heat doesn't come back, you don't know if you have enough DO for the trout.

Hey thanks esshup, that's a great idea. My bluegill fry are cheaper than trout! Going to be investing I'n meter next year.it's just tough to take, one month is all i am having trouble with. Last week checking temps i did catch a glimps of a couple of trout, couldn't tell if they were browns or bows though.

Oops.

Bill, thanks for the advise on 02 meter, guiding and fishing the Flw walleye tour .... No us pros don't use 02 meters....lol... Growing up I'n eastern Wi, a few of my buds that charter out of algoma and two Rivers don't even have them, there fishing 60- 260 fow... Today's sonar units will show a seasoned person that knows how to read the unit exactly where the termo is at .. Know need for dropping probs down.. Fishing walleyes, the deepest we target fish is I'n the 30-40 ft range I'n lake Erie I'n the dog days of summer. Hence most pro fishing tourneys promote catch and release. Pulling fish from those depths and putting them I'n livewell for a few hours there done for.. Not to mention fish have to be fissed, air bladder of fish goes cabooom pulling fish I'n the 20 plus range .

Reference reading if you have not already read it:
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92639#Post92639

In clean clear oligotrophic and some mesotrophic waters the DO will remain high enough to support trout below the thermocline. Northern temperate ponds are very rarely oligotrophic or mesotrophic. Most are euttrophic maybe slightly mesotrophic. Occassionaly you will find some mesotrophic as in the case of quarries or some deep gravel pits.

Great article bill, thank you.. I love learning more and more..

Hi. I just saw that when you put aerator in 18 ft depth, it stunk like sulfur. I got on this website to look for information whether or not I should aerate a pond we are going to build. Our concern is this. The proposed pond area is underlain by a formation of clay that when exposed to oxygen, generates extremely acid water, like ph 3.0 or so. NOT very good for fish or other living things. As long as the DO is low the material does not produce acid. Anaerobic is good for that. Oh, by the way the clay contains pyrite (it sparkles) and that is what causes the acid. A sign that the acid is being produced is the odor of rotten eggs, which if I am not mistaken, is sulfur. I am in NJ near Phila PA and we have these formations that we have to be careful of in some areas when we dig deep. I saw that you smelled sulfur when you aerated deep and was concerned that if you have similar material where you are, you could be creating sulfuric acid, by exposing pyrite flakes or other mineral to oxygen. That could kill fish.

Welcome to the forum. Your safest bet is to dig the pond about 24" deeper than what you want the finished depth to be. Bring in good clay and plate over the bad clay in 6" lifts, with a sheepsfoot roller or a multi-tired pan scraper filled with dirt for more ground pressure. Plate the whole pond basin, anywhere water will be.

Not only do you have to worry about the acid producing formations, you have to worry about the ponds pH (yeah, that's a function of the acid) . Bob Lusk ran into that problem in Texas and that's the only way that he could fix the problem.

Hey, ZF, sent you a pm.

I'd also love a bit of advice on aeration. I just bought this property - my pond is about 1/4-1/2 acre and is 3-4 feet deep. It is fed by runoff, but do have a way to add water if I need to do so. And, it is stocked with bass among other things. What I am thinking of is an aerator (boilermaker sort?). Any advice on HP or gallons per minute I should look for? Also, Would I need to run it year round day and night? I am in north ms. Kinda worried about the cost of the unit as well as the energy cost to run it. Anyone have advice/luck with building one? Thanks y'all.

You do not really have a pond, technically it is a wetland with those maximum depths of 3-4ft. For shallow ponds such as yours, managing it as a 'regular' pond will be a big, big challenge.

For aeration you do not need a compressor that produces more air pressure (psi) than 3-4psi. I would not use a water pump fountain style since it costs more per hr to run those if the fountain moves an appreciable amount of water similar to a bottom diffuser.

An electrically efficient type compressor would be one of the linear style air pumps which are pretty good for shallow ponds (<6ft). Even if you run the aerator continuously and even add more of them, be advised that an aerator/s will not eliminate your algae/weed problems and could actually create better conditions for plants to grow. Working to maintain a relatively 'weed' free pond of 0.2-0.5ac will be a big challenge if you don't use lots "chemicals". Shallow water almost always results in naturally weedy ponds unless special conditions are used. Generally the weed problems in ponds always occur in the shallower waters not in the deeper middle area.

It would be a very good idea if you read through this long detailed thread as good homework and background about pond aeration.
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92494#Post92494

Note the posts about DIY aeration which mention some economical aeration systems. Note the compressors of the DIY systems may not last as long as the 'standard' compressors for pond/lake aeration. Members are learning this. If you are handy, I found that the diaphragm of EcoPlus pumps can be rebuilt-replaced without buying a new pump. Rebuild kits are sometimes not available and one has to fabricate their own new diaphragm -(search YouTube video).

Long term IMO, I would research the rebuilding/redigging of this pond to a depth of 10-14ft with steep sides & minimal shallow water. A smaller deeper pond is much easier to manage than a larger shallower pond.

Lacey Bill gives good advice as always he knows his stuff! The Eco plus pump for air in your type of pond may work very well. I have used one for 4 years now in 8 foot of water so in 4 foot it should do quite well and it won't break your bank. Although in 3 to 4 foot of water I am not really sure how much turn over your going to get?? I thought I read somewhere on this forum that in ponds that shallow there really is not a a good reason to run air? Dont quote me on that though! It just can't really do what it's meant to do and that's pull your water up and turn it over. If you do run it I would try and setup 2 or 3 differnt spots with air to maybe get better movement of your entire water body.

RC

First off, listen to what Bill Cody says.

One other possibility, but it will depend entirely if your soils are conducive to it. You could take a trackhoe and have one side deepened or widened, with the water still in. But you MUST know from a local pond builder if this will work in your soils or you might end up with just a big leaky mud puddle.

I used our backhoe to go around an old pond and establish some deeper water in places. But we have clay pan soils that we normally do not have to worry about "sealing up" to hold water. If your soils will work doing this, it is a fairly inexpensive way of doing a partial refurbish on one area of the pond without draining and killing everything that is already there.

Just one possible way of getting some deeper water area without being horribly expensive.

Thank you very much for your information and for the link! I will read it. As for the depth- I could be wrong. It was a guess based on the 3ft depth I measured by the dock. I'll get someone to venture further in to measure...