Pond Boss Forums GENERAL QUESTIONS Pond Boss Walking on water.....the basics.

Tony: Another great post. For the guys that hunt, and don't know yet if they want to spend the $$ on dedicated ice fishing clothes, the clothes that you'd be wearing while hunting in cold. damp weather will do. Gore-Tex, etc. I gave up on buying outdoor coats without hoods and I find they are great for keeping the wind off the back of your neck.

Not enough can be said for waterproof knees. That's the part that will get wet first.

I have a couple of pairs of wool/thinsulate mittens where the mitten part flips up and they transform to fingerless gloves (but the thumb is still covered). I also have a pair or two of really thin glove liners that have what looks like silver thread sewn in the fabric. Supposed to reflect heat back to your hand. I love 'em, but have no idea where to get them now.

sprkplug: "Few things harder to explain than frostbitten kneecaps."

Try carpet burn kneecaps.

Sorry, off subject. Couldn't help myself.

Snrub,

You naughty man! I have to admit whenever I hear about kneepads I think of a joke about Monica Lewinski marketing them.

One thing that I really don't go out in the cold without anymore, when it's really cold, is a bellclava the wife recently knitted me. Not only does it protect the face in biting cold and wind, but it is long enough to tuck around the neck under my jacket to keep the cold from going down my neck.

As far as boots I'm stuck on the white Mickey boots I was issued in the ANG. Never found anything better, and ice water if it gets in, will actually be warmed up by the heat from your feet. I kid you not! Been there done that. Be aware there are Chinese knock offs out there.

And the Air Force Parka and pants are also hard to beat!

I was given a bright orange survival suit recently by a Canadian friiend of my dad's that worked on hydro dams there. Not sure what to do with it as it's for a guy over 6 feet and I'm only 5 feet 8 inches. Maybe sell it on Ebay?

Tony, please recreate and rewrite this post as a draft article for Pond Boss magazine and send it to Lusk for publication in late 2014 Nov-Dec or the Jan-Feb2015 issue. Use some of the added comments of this thread. Lusk will help you massage the content. I look forward to seeing it in print with some pictures.

One thing I was taught which I am not certain is true, though it makes sense: If you have a ways to walk/run to a warm spot after getting out, and it is very cold out in the air, it is best to strip off most of your clothing before going. Leave the tighty-whities on for decency sake!. You loose much less heat to bare skin in the air as to wet clothing, especially wet cotton. In fact running back to a warm spot mostly nekkid will probably shave some time off of the warm-up period.

Don't worry, the jewels will make a reappearance in a day or two ;-).

Great post! I learned some new tips from this.

It's sad to hear about dogs losing their life from falling through the ice. There is something that will save a dog in this situation, their dew claws! They do have a purpose. If you have a pond and live in a northern climate find a breeder that doesn't remove them before purchasing a puppy. It's becoming more common for reputable breeders to leave the front dew claws on as we are finding out there are downsides to removing them. Don't buy the excuse that dew claws are often ripped in the brush. Can it happen, yes, but it's not that common. You wouldn't have your thumbs removed in fear that you might injure or break them one day would you?

This video shows dogs with and without dew claws climbing out of water once they've fallen through.

Loretta, mine don't have them on. When I about lost both of my Springer Spaniels, the week previous they had gone in the open water from the aerator to chase after a pair of geese. Dottie caught one and brought it to the house. After I released it (they were taught not to damage the birds) it rejoined it's mate. The next week, the temps dropped to below 0, and the wind chill was in the -25°F range. They both went in after the geese again, but after about 10 minutes they were too cold to get out. Both of them had ice on their heads already. I had just let them out to go potty and when they heard the geese, it was game on. I didn't realize they went to the pond until after they didn't come when called.

To make a long story short, I ended up grabbing an extension ladder and used it to break most of the ice from shore to the open hole. When they tried to climb up on the ice in that spot, it broke and they were able to swim close enough so I could grab 'em and toss them on the shore. It took 20 minutes in a warm shower for them to stop shivering.

That's why I now have the diffuser set so it's open all the way to shore.

Good thing you checked on them. My heart would've been pounding out of my chest if I witnessed my dogs in that situation. Running the aerator the way you do is another great idea.

One of my dogs fell through after I let her out to potty at 11 PM and I don't run my aerator in the winter. She showed up on the back porch soaking wet and shivering. She looked scared and I was horrified. The next day I could see where she fell in even though it had froze over. I never considered the dangers to them until that day. It was well below freezing that night but temperatures were up and down during the day. I still worry, I make sure they aren't out there too long when the ice could be unsafe or I supervise them. If I ran my aerator in the winter one of my dogs would probably go swimming just because they can .

My dog is always on a lease -- especially because of a busy highway in front of the house. It's a pain to walk her up to 4 x per day, but it does get me out and provides exercise.

On a funny note, one morning it was about -20 with deep snow and I wasn't crazy about going ouside. I figured she wouldn't go very far so I just opened the door and she reluctantly went out without me. She kept looking back as if to say," Aren't you coming?" Needless to say she didn't go far, did her business, and came running back to the door. I guess -20 is too much even for a Spitzbreed Akita, although she doesn't mind it if it's above zero.

To add insult to injury, right after reading this tread, my family and I walked down to the pond to stretch legs before watching the Superbowl. My son ran down to the pond ahead of us with the dog, and ran right out onto the part where I have told him a million times not to go! Right where the overflow water is, which is perpetually thin.

He is very lucky he is small, and the dog isn't that heavy either. It crackled a little but that was it. However it was close to shore, and the worst that may have happened is he would have learned a powerful lesson. God he is a stubborn mule, never listens and has to learn things himself. Hopefully my panic got through to him.

For those in the know?..What kind of stress is involved in releasing fish when caught through the ice.. I would guess handling is as important in cold weather as in hot weather...

Good question... I hope someone chimes in who knows the answer! My thoughts.....When I'm ice fishing I'm typically using light line, which translates into greater time spent playing the fish, at least that's the case when something larger than what I'm expecting latches on to my jig. Is it time enough to be considered detrimental to the health of the fish?? I really don't know.

I will also say I've noticed that winter fish appear to live longer on the ice. I've had a catfish or two freeze solid enough to hold them out straight by the tail.....only to see them begin swimming again when placed in a bucket of water.

The BG's that I release all seem to swim off with no apparent ill effects, although who can say how they fare after some time has passed. Also, I see very little (practically nil), instances of deeply hooked fish in the winter.

Gear.

I've given a great deal of thought to this one. After all, most fishing styles and disciplines have a common denominator in the form of "you can go as crazy $$$ as you want"..... irregardless of the season or temperature. Ice fishing is absolutely no different.

Still, I believe at its core hard water angling exhibits a certain simplicity, or at least holds it roots close. Sure, the possibilities exist for underwater cameras, sonar, and three figure money spent on a custom, 24" rod. But while these items may enhance the fishing experience, are they absolutely essential for putting fish on the ice, especially in the beginning, when someone is just starting out?

So, after sorting through my seemingly ever-increasing stash of ice fishing gear, I have arrived at the five items I consider fundamental to success. Others may have differing opinions, and I would welcome their input.

1) It all begins with access to the water, and that means cutting a hole. The standard tool for that these days is an ice auger with replaceable blades, which come in electric, gas powered, and manual versions. However, I cut, or more aptly chopped, my holes for years using an axe, splitting maul, or my trusty spud bar. You may learn something about yourself when you're swinging a maul at the glassy surface that's holding you up, right in front of your feet. However you may learn even more about your companions...if they offer to take a turn with the maul, you're in good hands. If they scatter like a covey of quail at your first swing, AND the resulting crack that shoots across the surface, then remember what I said about tying yourself off with the safety rope cause you're liable to be on your own from that moment on.

These days I use a manual auger, and I have to say I don't miss the axe. For what they cost, and considering that 6" of ice is considered thick in my neck of the woods, they are a worthwhile investment. One word of caution however: ice auger blades are wickedly sharp. As in slice you open right now, blood-on-the-ice, stitches at the emergency room, kind of sharp. And, all blades are not created equal. I have bought replacement blades made in China that would not hold an edge, only to find out that the Swedish blades were far superior. Always check to see what you're buying.

2) A skimmer. After drilling or chopping a hole, you will find that it's full of slush. That's not always a bad thing, especially on bright days when a sudden shaft of sunlight streaming into the water can spook already wary fish, (some anglers will shove snow into the hole on a tough bite), but it does make it difficult to get your bait down through it. A skimmer looks like a kitchen utensil, as it's just a handle attached to a cupped piece with holes in it. You just dip the hole out, and you're good to go. I list this as essential only because I have resorted to using my hands for this task on days when I didn't have a skimmer....luckily the excruciating pain only lasts until your hands go numb. Unfortunately, this also means you can't bait your hook, retie a jig, smoke a cigarette, heed the call of nature, or any one of a dozen things you usually take for granted. Buy a skimmer. Trust me.

3) Finding bottom. A lot of ice fishing begins at the bottom of the pond/lake. That doesn't mean you will catch all of your fish there, only that finding bottom and working upward as necessary is common practice. If your jig/bait is heavy enough, you can use that to find your depth. If not, which happens a lot when you're using a size 18 ice fly, then you need a clip-on weight which is nothing more than a chunk of lead attached to an alligator clip. I should point out that the plumb bob method is most often utilized together with a rod/reel combination or mechanism that allows the angler to set his depth by limiting the amount of line that is let out, therefore ensuring a constant return to that depth on each drop.

4) Rod and reel, or something to wind your line onto. There are still anglers who will hook a fish and walk backwards until it clears the hole, old school style, but it seems to me like a good way to get your line in a hopeless tangle or frayed on the jagged ice. I started out with a "Schooley" rod and reel, and still use them for certain applications. It's just a fiberglass rod about 24" long, with a plastic "reel" to wind your line back onto, It features a crude, spring loaded friction adjustment, (not really a drag), a spring bobber at the rod tip, a stand to hold the rod off the ice, and not much more. And I've caught a lot of fish using them. Inexpensive and functional.

5) Enticements.....bait, jigs, plastics, or a combination thereof. An assortment of jigs in different sizes and colors, both vertical and horizontal...I tend to favor smaller offerings, especially for Bluegills. If you're after perch, walleye, crappie or bass, you may want to stock up on some jigging spoons, or raps. A lot of anglers, me included, like to add a little protein in the way of live bait. Waxworms, maggots, (spikes), mousies, or minnows are all popular, again depending on the target species.

Schooley rod, bait puck, ice skimmer.


Next time I will focus on upgrading your equipment and stepping up your game, but in my opinion these five basic items will absolutely enable you to catch fish. Hopefully, others will weigh in with their own interpretations.

Tony, I'll have to take some pictures of some stuff that I have around here. I have a few rods that only have line winders on them - no "reel" of any type.

re: augers. I believe there are 3 types of hand augers. 2 spiral types which have 2 blades, and one "spoon" type. I believe there is one of those 2 blade types that will not open up a partially frozen hole, or re-open a hole that was used yesterday. I believe Laser and Mora? Laser will, Mora won't?

The spoon type will re-open a hole, but finding a person that knows how to correctly sharpen them is hard. You want your blades to make shaved ice when cutting. Don't bang the blades on the ice to start the hole, just rest it on the ice and put minimal pressure on it as you turn. Think of razor blades. When not in use, always put the cover back on the auger.

That's too nice of a bait puck. Where's the Skoal puck with the metal top and waxed cardboard bottom that has a few holes punched in the top with an ice pick?

You going to stand all day or sit down somewhere? What are you going to put your fish in to carry them off the ice?

I like the plastic skimmer better than the old metal ones. They don't bend when you bang them on the ice to get the built up ice off of them. Personal choice here, I prefer the kind that has the skimmer part at 90° to the handle. Mine also has marks in the handle to tell me how thick the ice is. Push the skimmer thru the hole to the bottom of the ice, read the thickness on the handle.

I think a pair of hemostats is also part of the required gear. They make hook removal MUCH easier, even without taking off your gloves if it's really cold out. Clip them on your coat like you do with your depth finder.

How old is your son?

All good points Scott! And it is certainly a good idea to throw your essentials in a 5 gal. bucket for the walk out, as well as providing you with something to carry your catch back with. I will sit on a bucket occasionally, but tend to move a lot so I'm on my knees a good deal of the time.

As far as reopening old holes, I have a mora and a lazer and neither are very good at this task...I usually use my spud for that, or simply drill another hole next to the refrozen one. Good idea on the skimmer handle....mine has notches every two inches as well. No guessing here!

I wish I knew the technique to sharpening auger blades. I can get them sharp, or at least they SEEM sharp. But I cannot duplicate the angle correctly....they just skate around on the ice rather than biting in. And after cutting many, many holes this season, my blades are getting dull. Now, I have to use my forehead to apply pressure to the back of the hand that's holding the auger....and that leaves a peculiar looking mark right at my hairline.

I consider it a badge of honor.

He just turned 8. He is not going to make it to 9 the way he was acting today! OMG, stuck home on a snow day while I was trying to work from home. Bottled energy comes out like a volcano if he doesn't run it off!

Played outside for a while, and he was much better. It sounded like a bowling alley downstairs while my wife tried to keep him entertained.

We can no longer tell where the shore ends and the pond begins down at the pond. A good 15" snowfall of fluff. It hardly matters, the snow is up to the dog's pink belly now, so she wont go.

Tony:

Strikemaster used to offer a sharpening service on their blades. It's been a while since I checked with the poor ice conditions the past few years. I had them sharpen 2 sets, and I couldn't tell the difference between the resharps and new. IIRC a set cost $12.50 plus postage and came back in a nice plastic box.

I never made it to the lake house today to take pictures. I spent the day moving snow and helping the neighbors. 10+" here. Snowplow took out my neighbors & my mailbox and both of our newspaper boxes. His 4x4 post is snapped right off, the "T" post that the newspaper boxes are on looks like a pretzel and my plastic mailbox looks like somebody put a bomb in it. He's not a happy camper - he just put up a new post and box this Fall. I spent about 5 hrs on the tractor moving snow. Garbage truck got stuck in the neighbors today too. They had to call a wrecker. The truck pulled in to empty the dumpster, but when it backed out it somehow ended up in the yard, breaking through the frozen ground and sinking about 2' into the dirt. Even with knee deep snow in his yard, the yard is trashed. I'd hate to see it when the snow melts!!

Wow...sounds like your neighbor had a really bad day! Got about 5" down here, so I consider us fortunate.

I used to have Strikemaster sharpen my blades also. Not sure if they still offer the service? May have to give them a call.

Update...just found a place that offers resharpened blades on an exchange basis. Blades for my Lazer will be $16.95, and that includes shipping. The sticking point for me is whether or not I would get Chinese, or Swedish blades back....... I will keep looking!

Here's a few points.
If you spend much time with snowmachines on questionable ice, the survival gear on your machine won't do you much good if you lose your machine. I keep fire starting gear, socks, baclava, and gloves in my parka (all in water proof bags).

Dogs can be taught to get out of the water onto the ice.
1. Find safe ice that is adjacent to open water
2. Put dog on long lead and throw something to retrieve into the water (if your dog won't retrieve you'll have to figure out a way to get it into the water)
3. When dog returns and gets it's front feet on the ice,let it work at it for a few seconds then pull on the lead to help it slowly use it's claws to get on the ice.
4. Repeat
I teach all my dogs to climb on the ice, the option may be drowning.

Bearbait1, my dogs can get up out of the ice, and have done so with a live barnyard goose in their mouths (dogs are 35#-40# max). But, they were in the water swimming after the geese long enough that they got cold and tired. I think they were in the water in below 0°F temps for 10-15 minutes before I saw them. They still didn't want to get out of the water - they were still chasing the geese. But, when I called them, and they tried to get out, they were too cold and pooped. That's when the "Oh crap I gotta do something NOW" set in.

Yeah, some dogs just don't know when to quit, it can make them great hunting dogs but get them in trouble.

Alright ......you've taken every appropriate precaution, you're dressed for the weather, and you're on the ice with the basic essentials needed to catch fish. So where do you start?

Obviously, a lot of "where" will depend upon the species you decide to target. But generally speaking, the fish beneath the ice will tend to key in on structure, cover, and food...sounds familiar, right? But how do you locate these areas when all you can see topside is a frozen landscape?

If the water is clear enough, you might try simply looking down the hole. Lay flat on your stomach with your face over the hole and your nose nearly in the water. It helps to cup the hole with your hands, or pull your hood up and over. Anything to block the outside light and shade the hole. Depending upon water clarity and depth, it's common to see 10-12 feet, maybe further.

If you're over deeper water, or if the water is murky, you might try probing the bottom with that clip-on plumb weight we talked about earlier. Let it strike the bottom in freefall, and tighten up slowly. Does it come off the bottom instantly, or can you feel it stick a bit before coming loose? A hard bottom will offer little resistance, while a sticky, mucky bottom will hold onto the weight, loading the rod before the weight "breaks" free. Softer bottom content can give you a clue as to a potential food source, such as bloodworms.

I also used to attack trebles to my plumb weight to check for weeds, which can be fish magnets at certain times during the winter.... most often early in the season. If it's been a long winter with a lot of snow cover on the ice, those weeds may be dead or dying and not holding fish any longer. in those cases, I usually head to deeper water.

If you decide that ice fishing is something you want to pursue more frequently, rather than once or twice a season, you may opt for some underwater eyes in the form of sonar (also referred to as a flasher), or an underwater camera. Some anglers use both. Either one will open up an entirely new dimension while ice fishing. There are many excellent online videos and tutorials that demonstrate using both of these tools, but nothing compares to hands-on....try and hook up with someone who is proficient at using a flasher or camera, and try them out for yourself. The fish won't be the only thing getting hooked.

My sonar unit, showing my jig around the 8:30 position. (The number 2 on the dial) No fish are immediately visible, although there is some structure right off the bottom, and what looks like some low vegetation such as FA.


What about bait? Again, it depends. Generally speaking I prefer small rather than large, but let the fish tell you what they want. This is another area where sonar, or a camera, can definitely enhance the ice fishing experience. With either one you will get to see the fish approach your jig/bait, and observe their reaction. Do they charge upwards like a Polaris missile? Those fish are probably aggressive, and may not be too particular. Maybe they swim gradually toward your offering, while you do everything in your power to keep their interest? It may be tougher to get those fish to commit, and your presentation will be critical. What if they approach your bait nose-to-nose, only to stare at it for a second before swimming away? Something's not right, time to change jigs/presentations.

This is what electronics can show you, while the plumb bob cannot. And it can make the difference between a good day, and a skunk.

I'm a huge fan of electronics for ice fishing.....I've experienced what they can offer the angler, and I'm convinced.

Jigs...again, what are you fishing for? I'm a panfisherman, so I prefer an assortment of colors and shapes, with a heavy preference for horizontally orientated, tungsten jigs. I have nothing larger than a size 12, with most being 14-16. Jigging spoons are very popular also, and will take perch, walleyes, crappies, and various basses.

Tipping...I absolutely hands-down prefer maggots(spikes). They're more resilient than waxworms, they stay on the hook better, and they're smaller....I prefer small, remember. Minnows are very popular to tip with, especially for fish with a larger gape. But larger baits don't always equate to larger fish...this LMB took a size 14 tungsten jig tipped with two spikes:


A jet sled is handy to haul your gear in. Everything I've talked about in this thread is in the sled, with the exception of my clothing of course. Also my spikes are around my neck, and the spud bar is in my other hand.



Using my spud to test the ice as I go out....looks good!


And that's my take on ice fishing. Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread, and thanks for reading.

Tony, you ain't done writing yet!!

How do you put the spike on the hook so it stays alive and moving?

I'll bet you've used the different flasher units (or seen them used). What are the + and - of each one, and which one would you buy if you were buying one this year?

Jet sleds. Where to get 'em?

Got any pictures of the jigs that you've had the best success with?

VERY excellent work!!!

Okay, I'll focus on some of the details later this evening. The debate over which flasher is best is akin to Ford vs. Chevy, or which taste best...Coke or Pepsi?

But, I'll throw caution to the wind and list my favs.