Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Corrective stocking Getting ready to stock- need advise! IDAHO POND

OK, I am getting ready to stock my pond in Idaho. First some background. The pond is a pond I had dug and built by a pond developer approx 6-7 year ago now. Its approx 1.5 acres in size in spring and early summer and get smaller in late summer and fall. Its apprx 12 feet deep at the deepest point. This goes down to approx 6-7 feet in fall. It freezes in the winter. It may even been bigger size wise but the upper water entry end is shallow and has vegetation. Birds, ducks and geese have been on it since day one. Now I have a bazillion frogs. It does not seem to have an over growth of moss or anything. We see lots of snails too. appears there is a lot to eat in it.

I threw in a hand full of channel catfish almost 4 years ago. I had not fished for them or looked but the wife saw what she thought was a catfish close to shore in the fall.

I have not put anything else into the pond.

I spoke with a company who sells fish today, called
OPALINE AQUA FARMS.

I told him I wanted Bluegill and large mouth bass.

he suggested the following.

LMB Fingerlings 3-4 inches 100
bluegill 40- inches 200
mosquito fish 500
grass carp 10

This would happen in about May. He delivers for only 75 bucks as he lines up ponds on his route. so I would just do that.

we did the stocking for approx 1 acre size at this time. whats your thoughts of what he suggested. Hes also not a guy whos big on catfish and suggested none.

looking for ideas?

here are a couple of pics of the pond in the late fall when its at its smallest size.

Also I have NO items for fish inside the pond. like habitat.. He suggested cement pipe culvert????
RUMBLON

Seems like you really need to know how big those CC are so they don't eat the new stock.

What size are the planned BG?

Grass Carp are added for specific vegetation. Be sure you have the type they will eat, otherwise they just take up room away from other fish.

THE BG are 3-4 inches. The grass carp were recommended by the seller?

As far as the catfish they were very small 2-4 inches four years ago this coming june. I got them in a minnow trap in a buddies canal. channel cats. I have no idea how fast they grow but my wife saw it but could not give a length to the recent sighting. so just a guess at this time?

RUMBLON

Hi Rumblon

Your place looks very nice - sorta an oasis in the sandhills type setting. Reminds me of our Sandhills in Western NE.

Since you have a blank slate with only a handful of CC present, you can opt for any type of fishery you want. LMB, BG, CC fishery is one option - so too would be cool water species like SMB, YP, and maybe WE.

When stocking a new fishery, Northern LMB pond owners follow these rough guidelines depending on their goals:

50-100 LMB/ac
500-1000 BG/ac

Many consider adding another forage species or two, and Golden Shiners might be an option for you there.

Since you might have a population of adult CC present, we should anticipate your stocker fish will, to some degree, suffer predation from the CC. Something to keep in mind as it might suggest you bump the original stocking numbers somewhat.

If you are after a balanced fishery, these would be my stocking suggestions:

Spring 2014

500-750 3-4" BG These fish just might pull a mid summer spawn which will help feed the LMB in the Fall. I hesitate to recommend an exact qty as we don't know your CC population or their size. If the CC have pulled a spawn in your pond numbers could be high, and predation on BG may be significant risk. You should sample them this Spring to determine their presense in the fishery.

Fall 2014

75-100 LMB

I would not recommend stocking Grass Carp until/unless your pond exhibits vegetation management issues. Doesn't sound like vegetation is presently and issue, so I would advise against stocking them. Don't treat the pond with a management device/practice until it's needed.

I don't have enough experience with Gambusia to recommend either way.

Golden Shiners, however, could serve as an additional forage item for the CC and LMB in addition to the BG. If you wanted to go this route, I'd recommend stocking 250 adults/ac.

If you are interested in cool water species let us know - many of us have experience managing those fisheries and they would be well suited for your Northern location.

Hope some of this helps - keep researching the forum archives and never hesitate to pose questions to us. We are happy to have some Idaho representation on the forum!

I agree on not adding the GC at this time unless a vegetation problem exists AND you can positively ID the vegetation as a species that the GC likes. Otherwise I feel that you are wasting $$ and space in the pond that other fish could use.

I also second the Golden Shiner advice. I'd put the $$ that'd go towards the mosquito fish towards GS.

Definately find out how large the CC are, both in size and population. Once they get over 3# or so, they start looking for fish to eat.

If you have a lot of snails, try and find pumpkinseed sunfish. I am not sure whether Redear Sunfish will survive there. If they will, and you can stock them, do so. Both species feed on snails. Stock whatever species you can stock, I'd put the number at 20% of the total BG stocking number. Like was said, I'd stock a minimum of 10 BG for every LMB stocked, up to 30 for every LMB stocked. The less cover they have to hide in, the easier prey they will be for LMB, and LMB can eat a LOT of BG.

Good to have another western pond owner posting, RUMBLON. Your place looks like heavenly Idaho bird country-sharp-tails, quail, pheasants, Huns?
Where are you in Idaho? I lived for years on the Snake near Marsing. Ponds we had in our area were not managed well-no one knew of this website back then-the web didn't exist in those prehistoric times.
You will find amazing help on this forum. How it applies to our unusual western conditions will be a great discovery.

Rumblon,
Beautiful place and pond! I can feel the serenity and "peace and quiet" just looking at the pic.

OK, if it works here are a few more pics. The above pics were taken when the pond is at its lowest in the late fall of this year and the grass is brown going into winter, except for where I watered it abit. These pics show how green it is in most of the spring summer. This area is absolute cattle area (2800 elevation), all intermediate grass on my 175 acres. The pond is just at the bottom of the property and I AM going to build a home on it.

a couple of these pics are older and no trees at that time but it shows the mass of the pond in the spring and summer.

So with what I have read I need to increase my BG population by a lot if I do 100 LMB? I dont know what else they carry but I will ask about the shinners. And I will skip the grass carp until I have a need for them. They by far are the most expensive fish he sells.

I will TRY and catch a catfish in early spring to see how big they are but if I dont then I can just plan on more BG to offset a potential loss.

I am open to any advise because I am a total novice and dont pretend to know anything.

I also need to know what cover to throw into the pond, I was told by the fish seller here that cement culvert pipe works great? He also said no christmas trees. or anything with sap in it.

Catfish are cavity spawners. If you put culverts in there, then they will use them for spawning habitat. I'd not recommend that - CC are relatively inexpensive to stock, so I'd treat them as a catch and restock fish.

Many, many members here use x-mas trees for habitat in ponds without ill effects.

Here's some reading for you on cover in ponds:
From the archives

As for Golden Shiner stocking, if your fish provider doesn't provide them you could order fry from Anderson's - they ship 250,000 fry and ship throughout the US. Since you have limited numbers of CC they may take hold provided you have ample vegetation for them to utilize as habitat. I'd definitely stock them at least a few months ahead ahead of any BG. By then they should be safe from 3-4" BG gapes.

Structure: For BG, think shallow [3-6'], dense cover like cedars tied together and sunk with cinder blocks.

LMB like ambush points and things that cast shadows and provide edges. Dropoffs, points, logs. Pallets pyramids can work, so can boulders, and PVC structure can be a good choice. Many structure options out there are free and you can use your imagination to create something new and unique.

So you have a suggested stocking plan and calendar and also some structure ideas. What's next?

I agree with Scott and would resist using any barrel type structure like buckets or culverts - they may allow your CC to spawn, which could introduce new management issues for you down the road.

Do yourself a huge favor and research and be in contact with way more than one supplier. Delivery is nice but if there's only one tavern in town, the beers gonna be very expensive.

I would contact your DNR. Idaho has fairly strict laws as to what species can be stocked as they have a lot of unaltered aquatic ecosystems and they'd like to keep them that way.

Yes mot many options for places to buy fish. I have no idea what fish should cost I know what they cost for these.

LMB 3 inches $1.75 each
BG 4 inches 1.95 each
mosquito fish 0.15 each.

is this high?

the grass carp are $20.00 a piece and as I said I wont buy any until I really need them.

RUMBLON

I source 3-4" LMB in NE for $.50 and regular Northern BG 3-4" for $.25 - but we're much closer to hatcheries than you are in ID I imagine - and that's probably driving the pricing high.

I'd say the LMB pricing is tolerable considering your stocking qty, but I'd ask the supplier to cut the BG pricing significantly. You could stock 1-2" BG and cut costs....smaller fish should be cheaper.

What about ID DNR - do they offer stocking programs for pond owners? Might be worthwhile investigating - although involving the state in private fisheries can be tricky. Research diligently and beware - sometimes getting free state fish can have strings attached.

The state of Idaho recommends this supplier on their facts sheet. Thats how I found them, but then again according too a friend at fish and game who is a construction specialist, not a warden, he says they are it for suppliers. LOTS of trout suppliers, not so much on the bass bluegill.

RUMBLON

Thanks for this info. Can anyone suggest a thread with any of these types with pics in them prior to going into the water?

I will search around as well.

Thanks again

RUMBLON

If you mean cover, take a look in the archives:
http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=postlist&Board=22&page=1

for the thread on cover/structure:

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=92463#Post92463

Rumblon, you are correct about the limited sources. You can not throw a rock in Idaho without hitting a trout hatchery but warmwater hatcheries are few and far between. Some Washington hatcheries are approved to sell fish to Idaho. You will hear many fish species recomended here that you will never find for sale in Idaho. If you are caught planting bullfrogs in Idaho they will take your first born.