Pond Boss Forums AQUATIC VEGETATION Balance of plants in the environment Rivercane/Bamboo

Anyone have any practical experience with growing any of the many variaties of bamboo? I'm thinking of planting some as a privacy/poacher border around my pond.

Bamboo's have quite a fearsome reputation, for being invasive. Having seen some in North Carolina growing stems six inches thick and thirty feet high, that could be a regrettable plant by most ponds...

Some bamboo's are stunners, I grew a 'phyllostachys' for years in england, a gorgeous plant for a plant screen, it divided real easy every year for new positions, spread at a modest reliable rate, grew to ten foot tall with a thin stem...

A careful search of websites describing bamboo growing habits should turn up a real good shortlist of varieties good for most situations

Miscanthus is another good screening plant, reliably over six foot tall, a very attractive plant all year, as is bamboo. On a quiet night nothing can move among miscanthus, it's one of those 'whispering' plants which rustles in the slightest breeze, quite a spooky sound after dark which I'm fairly sure keeps creatures of a nervous disposition steering clear of it

As security plants, yes, bamboo's can be breached fairly easy, there's usually gaps of some sort... pampas grass with it's razor edged leaves would be more effective

Regards, andy
http://www.members.aol.com/abdavisnc/swglist.html

Saw a garden show on TV this weekend where they used bamboo. They left it in the plastic pots it came in and planted them about an inch above the ground. Said this would keep it from spreading.

Andrew,
I was hoping you would respond.
I've seen stands of bamboo of some type that were indeed inpenetrable. Are you certain I would be illadvised to use it as a deterant to poachers? At the very least they wouldn't be able to carry much fishing gear through it and find it difficult to leave in a hurry when I (or my dog) got after them!
What can you tell me of water consumption of the plant?
I knew some variaties were agressive but figured I could control it with a bush-hog.
Thanks for the tip on Miscanthus I'm going to research that now.

Ric, The idea of bush hogging bamboo gives me cause for concern. I have blown expensive tractor tires on sharp sticks. I think I have seen stuff On National Geographic about sharpened bamboo being used as spears. My brother and I would have probably killed each other when we were kids if we could have gotten bamboo.

Hi Ric,

>>I've seen stands of bamboo of some type that were indeed impenetrable. Are you certain I would be ill advised to use it as a deterrent to poachers?

Bamboo's are clump formers, there's a fair chance gaps will form. If ever you see an old privet hedge, a few lanky limbs grow tall, and anything could skulk between the gaps, under very good cover... A thin stemmed bamboo type might be the more impenetrable barrier, especially if you put clumps of pampas grass in front of the bamboo to dominate ground level, or let brambles run wild through the bamboo...

>>At the very least they wouldn't be able to carry much fishing gear through it and find it difficult to leave in a hurry when I (or my dog) got after them!

I wouldn't chase anything in bushwhack cover... A dog would do it well. You will find foxes go in circles in thick cover and your dog goes round and round, lol

You can move silently among bamboo gaps after dark, but not miscanthus...

>>What can you tell me of water consumption of the plant?

Bamboo's cope fine with drought or moist ground, tough as old boots, if the soil is reliably moist through Summer the bamboo will grow very fast, in a dry shade position it will grow much slower

>>I knew some varieties were aggressive but figured I could control it with a bush-hog.

Bamboo's can be severely invasive, their growing tips are quite brittle and soft, even the most massive bamboo's can be kept in check with a riding mower chomping the growing points regular

Regards, andy
http://community.webshots.com/user/adavisus

Andy:
Just to follow up on Ric's question about water... Does bamboo consume lots of water like willow and cottonwood trees? Does bamboo grow in the water where I couldn't hit them with a bushhog? If so, how deep? Do they all just spread via rhizomes or do any have seeds carried by air?
Regarding pampas grass... How does it spread? Would it be likely to get out of control? Can you recommend any websites with pictures and more information on it?
Thanks to everyone for their answers and to Ric for posting the question! Good topic!
Jeff

Dave D.,
Good point to consider. I've punctured tractor tires on locust thorns too. I think though the bamboo is only strong enough to puncture a tire when cut smooth & straight. My bush-hog, I believe, will shatter it, besides I only want to control the edges of new growth/shoots which should be small & tender.

Andy,
I checked some websites on Miscanthus & now have a question on that plant. There was considerable concern for frost damage & recommendations to cover with mulch or thick straw in winter. Would this be a problem in NC?

Ranger,
Here is a link to Pampas Grass:
http://www.nps.gov/redw/pampas.htm
Here's a couple more:
http://www.ces.uga.edu/Agriculture/horticulture/pampasgrass.html
And this one has lots of info on other plants including aquatic weeds.
http://www.doc.govt.nz/Conservation/003%7EWeeds/Pampas-Grass.asp

Here's one for Miscanthus:
http://www.fsperennials.co.uk/catalogue/pl_miscanthus.htm

Hi Ranger and Ric

>>Just to follow up on Ric's question about water... Does bamboo consume lots of waterlike willow and cottonwood trees?

I haven't personally measured their consumption, bamboo copes with dry and damp soil conditions as far as I know, a search for 'bamboo society' in a search engine and a couple of library books would make for a good read. http://www.bamboogarden.com looks like a good starting point

>>Does bamboo grow in the water where I couldn't hit them with a bushhog? If so, how deep? Do they all just spread via rhizomes or do any have seeds carried by air?

You would have to look over each species of bamboo for growing habits. Bamboo's are quirky seeders, occasionally they go to seed and die, starting again from seed... I have seen them grow up to the water margin and no further... Some species do have the ability to 'adapt' to an aquatic growing position over time, some do it attractively like calla and canna some become a pain in the 'grass' to control, crab grass and Bermuda grass are a swine to tidy up....

I have heard of folk, disgruntled with their neighbors, of being very happy with particular bamboo varieties, planting them as an instrument of malice to consume their neighbors plot when they sell up and leave. Some bamboo rhisome's spread deep, remorselessly at a rate of 20 feet per year

>>Regarding pampas grass... How does it spread? Would it be likely to get out of control? Can you recommend any websites with pictures and more information on it?

Pampas has well known growing habits, its a big bold foliage clump forming plant, very tough, a great border plant to create a barrier six foot wide per plant, easy to control (pour gas on it, let it soak in, toss a flame on it from a safe distance, then 'round up' finishes it off) An image search of 'pampas grass' should locate some very good horticulture sources...

>>I checked some websites on Miscanthus & now have a question on that plant. There was considerable concern for frost damage & recommendations to cover with mulch or thick straw in winter. Would this be a problem in NC?

Sounds like an urban legend that, the miscanthus I've come across have been among the hardiest plants I ever saw, someone might be confusing them with sugar cane or ginger plants perhaps, the only problem with winters and miscanthus might be bad snow or freezing rain making a mess of a lot of top heavy foliage. Miscanthus is not happy in ground that is always saturated so not there is not much risk of it sprawling into a native pond

Regards, andy
http://community.webshots.com/user/adavisus

Andy,
I took the following quote from this website under the heading " Drawbacks:
http://bioenergy.ornl.gov/papers/miscanthus/miscanthus.html
Intrestingly Miscanthus is being cultivated as a bioenergy crop. Maybe only that particular strain is vulenerable to frost?
Anyway thanks for all the info! I think I'm going to use both, Bamboo & Miscanthus

Ric, While waiting for a Dr. appointment yesterday, I picked up a book that showed pictures of bamboo just outside of Kyoto, Japan. They said that the variety shown grew 60 ft. tall in 3 months.

Dave,
Well I guess that would give a guy something to do when the fish weren't biteing .. I could watch the bamboo grow! Literally! 60' in three months!! Woa, Don't fall asleep in it!
Don't want that around my place!

Does anyone have any experience planting rice along the edge or in shallow areas of a pond? My idea is to create cover and food for minnows, shad, and other small fish. If so would spring be the obvious time to plant?

Thanks.

Ric, if you want a BARRIER, consider Poncirus trifoliata spaced about twelve inches apart. Zone 5 is supposed to be ok. It will take a few years to become formidable, after which time you should be prepared to quickly abandon your property to any unarmored person able to penetrate it.

Thanks Dudley,
I found these sites:
http://www.cnr.vt.edu/dendro/dendrology/syllabus/ptrifoliata.htm
http://ridgwaydb.mobot.org/kemperweb/plantfinder/Plant.asp?code=X950
One site states it is the plant equivalent of a barbed wire fence. Sounds good!
This site lists nurserys: http://www.greenbeam.com/features/plant112999.stm
Here's a site I found while searching listing this plant as mildly poisonous:
http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/consumer/poison/poison.htm

That equasion is similar to stating that Monica Lewinski is the equivalent of Veronica Zemanova with Monica being the barbed wire fence. You could scale that fence if you really HAD to while, if facing the other, you would KNOW that you were totally inadequate, if not unnecessary.

Sorry Dudley,
That went over my head .. I don't know a Veronika but I gather from the jest of it I don't want to either.

Just a poor analogy, Ric. Poncirus trifoliata is commonly used as a rootstock for citrus trees. It is sturdy, thorny and, as a fence, would be practically impenetrable. After about seven years of growth, it sets a seedy, inedible fruit that you would want to remove. The seeds, which should not be allowed to dry, may be immediately planted to acquire more seedlings, or they can be heavily sowed where you want more barrier fencing and just be allowed to grow there. To say that as a barrier it would be formidable would be an understatement.

Howdy;

I know this is an old thread, but today's my first day here, and I've already asked a favor, so I figure I should contribute something.

So, I agree, the trifoliate orange (Poncirius trifoliata) would be a superb barrier choice. It's been used as a barrier since Roman times and was particularly popular in the eastern American states during the Revolutionary era. The fruit is lousy tasting, but some folks manage to amke a palatable marmalade with it.
The big Miscanthus species might work, but that's not my favorite idea.
Opuntia cactus is another really nasty customer that grows great with no supervision. One of the benefits of this is that it's free, as long as you can find someone else already growing the stuff. I'm not sure how much is growing in your area, but if not, it's a cultural situation, not a horticultural problem. Most opuntias will tolerate a fair amount of snow.
Regular bamboos, like phylostachys, bambusa, isn't much good as a barrier. True, an established stand can grow prodigious canes in a season, but it's hardly ever thick enough to retard a person who wants to pass through.

Oops, the word processor jammed up a bit before I was finished blathering on and on.

The river bamboo mentioned is called Arundo Donax, and it's not really a bamboo, it just sort of looks like one. It's also free to propagate as long as you know where some's growing. It is fast, but not much of a security barrier. It might be a cash crop though, for some enterprisiong American farmer. This is the palnt from which all reeds for woodwind instruments is made. The only hitrch is that the process requires that cut canes be submerged for ten years after they are harvested, then they can be dragged out and cut up to make the raw materials from which woodwind reeds can be produced. Right now I think a few French companies have a worldwide monopoly on the production of woodwind cane. Maybe you'll be the one to break that monopoly.

A good barrier planting has several layers. Tall plants to obscure, spiny plants to annoy, and thick plants to obstruct passage. I've made a few barrier plantings, and my favorite addition was always Puncture Vine. Looks like a nice little low growing weed, but the hard pointy seed pods can pop a bicycle tire and certainly go right through a tennis shoe sole. Dogs hate the stuff.
Other great barrier species:
Pyracantha, Blackberries, Poison Oak, Roses, and Barberry.

Happy Sadistic Landscaping!

-Rick