Pond Boss Forums MANAGING AN EXISTING POND Evaluating and adjusting fish populations A LAKE STORY WITH A NOT SO HAPPY ENDING SO FAR!

I live in central Florida in a gated community built by AV Homes. In 2004 they created a gated community, about 10 ponds totaling 50 acres and a 240 acre private lake including a cement lift that locks into West Lake Tohopeligia. The builder’s main purpose was to sell home lots with docks and access to Lake Toho at a premium and also as water retention for street runoff, etc. The acreage was bull dozed and all waters within that acreage were emptied. The 240 acres of water fishes much bigger than its acreage as it is not wider than a hundred yards in any one area. The pond excavators dug it out with an almost immediate drop throughout. The shoreline does still have arrowheads, cattails, and reeds but they are right up against the shoreline in very shallow water much of the year. Much of the lake’s shoreline drops off from four to ten feet out to water depth from 5 to 7 feet depending on the time of year. Maximum depth is about 14 feet with quite a bit of 8 to 10 foot depths. It is my understanding that no fish were stocked by the builder. For the first 4 or 5 years, the lake’s management was ignored by the builder until there were some complaints by residents that hydrilla was becoming an issue. In 2010 the builder hired a lake management company to chemically control the weeds in the lake. They basically treated the entire lake and removed all weeds that lived off of the shoreline except for some lily pads in a few areas. The waterway does have an overflow that keeps the water levels from being a problem for the home owners and the excess water flows into Lake Toho. The bottom of the lake consists of sand, mud, and clay. The clay tends to suspend in the water and the color is a greenish gray most of the time.

It took about 3 or 4 years before the lake started to naturally become a fishery. The local anglers including myself were bringing in limits of bass from Lake Toho and putting them into our private lake in order to boost the catch rate and enhance the fishery. I would guess that we put at least 1000 keeper bass of which 200 weighed over 5 pounds throughout the 240 acres. Bass is the only specie that was added to the fishery. The lake now contains the following fish species gar,largemouth bass, crappie, green sunfish, bluegill, glass minnows, threadfin shad, gizzard shad, golden shiners, channel catfish, brown bullheads, and armored catfish. The birds and animals that utilize the waters are bald eagles, osprey, cormorants, some cranes, a few alligators, and a few otters.

The lake is used more by boaters going out to Lake Toho than by fisherman angling in the private waterway. I would call the fishing pressure as being very light. Perhaps a couple of bass fisherman per day at most with an occasional Saturday catch and release tournament having as many as 5 boats utilizing the 240 acres.

My angling experience on our waterway began in 2006. In late 2008 it was nothing to go out and fish for 3 or 4 hours in the middle of the day and catch 5 bass weighing 15 pounds total. The hydrilla that had developed was concentrating the fish and they were pretty easy to catch. In 2009, I caught a 9 pound 9 ounce bass which was the lake record back then and the hydrilla was really getting nice and really helping the catch rate per hour. The fishery seemed to be improving each and every year. Fast forward to 2010, things changed dramatically with the chemicals killing off the weeds. The fish were no longer positioned next to weed lines as there were none. My angling results were that I was catching a greater number of skinny bass by length and I wanted a professional’s opinion to bring back to the fishing club.

I brought a fishery biologist out in early February 2012 to fish with me in order to identify the health of the bass in our fishery. We caught about 10 bass, 6 of which were between 9 and 12 inches, 1 about 14 inches, a 5 ¼ pounder as well as a 7 ¼ pounder. He felt that we caught enough fish and in different year classes to be able to make a probable determination. He observed that almost every bass was lighter in weight than it should have been for its length. The biologist acknowledged my concerns and identified some facts about the fishery. I brought this information to the fishing club and they discussed it and most of their opinions were that the lake was fine. I believe that there now exists a bluegill shortage which comes from a combination of factors. The lake has little shallow water access, no weeds, and the fact that the bass can herd the bluegill against the bank and consume them easily. In addition to that our stocking of keeper bass from Lake Toho without stocking an ample amount of forage for every bass stocked has really hurt our fishery in my opinion. I also strongly suggested the discontinuation of stocking bass from Lake Toho to the private lake based on a recommendation from the fisheries biologist. Unfortunately, the President who was not fond of me decided to take that suggestion under advisement and did not make any rulings. He also had the HOA make the lake CATCH AND RELEASE ONLY with signs surrounding the lake. Another mistake in my opinion.

In August of 2012, a buddy and I made a final presentation to the fishing club in the hope of scheduling an electro shocking survey in order to determine the present condition of the fishery. With a major discount on the electro fishing and study already secured, we thought we would get some cooperation. Unfortunately, it was once again met with disagreement as there was money for the shocking but no money to spend on fish or structure if those items were identified as necessary. I attempted to appeal to their common sense, but you need some knowledge in order to have a real opinion and most of them were closed off and were not interested enough to do some research as we had. I told them if a lake is stocked with 50 bluegill to every bass, we were already 50,000 bluegill shy of balance. They just would not agree with common sense and pointed out that they thought the bluegill population was fine. We both quit the bass club and put feeders on our own docks and are very frustrated. Additionally, the HOA is unwilling to spend a dime especially when the fishing club thinks that everything is fine.

It truly is a shame that the fishing club were so short sighted. In 2012, I fished for big fish almost exclusively. My results were that I caught 48 bass over 5 pounds, 21 over 7, 12 over 8, 4 over 9 and 2 over 10 pounds. The largest was 10 pounds 11 ounces. Almost all of these fish were skinnier than they shouId have been. I believe that almost all of these were originally trophy’s from Lake Toho. Furthermore, my belief is that the bass over 4 pounds or so are able to utilize the variety of larger forage present and are not dependent on the bluegill for forage. That being said, again I believe that our resident bass are having trouble getting large enough to be able to utilize the larger forage as we do not have enough supply of small panfish. Furthermore, I believe the bass spawns are overly successful due to the lack of bluegills and once these Lake Toho resident lunkers have died from old age, we will have a fishery of overstocked stunted bass. It truly is to bad because we could have created an enhanced trophy fishery with the trophy bass that had been stocked. My belief is that the lake would have needed structure added (pallets and oak trees available) throughout the lake, accountable weed spraying, and bluegill added annually. I forgot to mention that there are 4 automatic feeders that I acquired for other homeowners and for myself and that we really needed some commercial feeders in a few key areas on the lake along with either a slot or bag limit. I am sure that you guys on here have heard these type of stories before and will hear more of them in the future. Thanks for taking the time to read my saga!

That's the reason I hate HOAs. Seems like they're either lacking common sense and unwilling to think rationally, or are just outright fascist and looking for a fight.

Too bad your research into and care for the lake is being disregarded. I'm a relative newby to pond management, but the scenario you describe is likely to play out...and will probably be met with apathy then as well. Good luck.

Jack, you've got an uphill battle for sure. Feeding the BG will help, as will adding cover for the BG to hide in. Different sized BG need different cover. There is a thread in the archives about cover. But, unfortunately, it's going to take a wholesale removal of a LOT of LMB to get it turned around. In the archives is a Relative Weight chart. You might want to print it out for reference when not on the computer.

Just to give you how big of an uphill battle you are in for, to put one pound of weight on ONE LMB it takes roughy 10# of fish.

Also, the forage fish have to be the correct size. Just like you can't gain a whole lot of weight by walking around and picking up individual kernels of popcorn to eat, a LMB cannot gain weight if they don't have forage fish of the proper size to eat. Larger fish will expend too much energy for what they get in return if all they have to eat is small fish. Typically a LMB does best when eating fish 1/4 to 1/3 it's body length.

The typical forage fish to LMB ratio is 10:1. But, it's been found that LMB grow a whole lot quicker if the ratio is 20 or even 30:1.

If the HOA put a strict C&R of LMB in the lake, then the only thing you can do is target all of the other species of fish that prey on BG and remove every one you catch. But, even that might not be enough to turn the fishery around. I think it's a lost cause if they don't reverse their thinking and remove LMB.

Jack your story is pretty much my story and the reason I sold my property that shared a small lake with about 15 other homeowners. I had a lake mgt company attend one of our meetings and explain the problems and solutions. There was no HOA but I could never get them to agree on anything, even when the lake was being choked off with aquatic vegetation. It was very frustrating hearing people complain "we gotta do something", but then nothing would ever get done. Pretty much everything would get voted down when it came time to open the pocketbooks. At one point I even offered to pay half the costs so we could get started, and another homeowner threatened to sue me if I moved forward. So I sold and bought some property with my brother. Don't have to listen to the non-sense anymore. Good luck in your situation.

Welcome to PONDBOSS Jack.

You will get a lot of help from the folks here.

I can only say that you need to persuade the HOA to become better educated on pond management. There recently was someone else that was having similar problems with a HOA, and trying to convince them. Here is their LINK. You might look that over for possible ways that may help in dealing with your HOA. Some recommendations were given there.

Don't be afraid to keep asking questions here, as you learn more.

Looks like you have come up against an immovable object with the fishing club and HOA. I'm going to approach this from the angle you do have under control and from the glass half full instead of half empty. My suggestions may not be good ones, but maybe they will be good enough to cause you to think of some better.

You've got food on your dock. Good deal. Improve the habitat for forage fish all you can in the immediate area you have under your control within the allowable limits of the HOA. Make your and your buddies docks BG magnets and reproduction centers.

If your docks are BG magnets, the LMB might follow suite. They are going to want to be where the buffet is. At least you will have the best fishing spot on the lake.

This will not realize your goal of trophy LMB because there is no way you can feed enough fish to improve the whole lake. But I would think you pulling in all kinds of fish from your dock should raise some eyebrows. Maybe after a year of two they will get the idea. Maybe you can lead by example.

Who knows, set the right example and you might be the fishing club president in a few years (like anyone would want that kind of job anyway)

Just some crazy ideas from someone that does not do much fishing.

If the HOA and fishing club won't be swayed, then your goals should change to a "trophy BG lake". With all the stunted LMB in there (or will be in there within 4-5 years), that would be the easiest way to manage the lake. Once the larger LMB population dwindled, the large BG population will increase providing there is enough food for them.

I guess that you are correct. It just seems a shame to fail to capitalize on the tremendous population of lunker LMB brought in from Lake Toho. That being said, with no funding or cooperation of any sort the fishery seems doomed to mediocrity.

I do like catching big bluegill but believe that the continual overdose of chemicals used to control the weed growth have hurt the micro organism's that should be present in our water. I have fished for bluegill off of my dock and about 6 inches seems to be the maximum length and they are not very thick either. I do not think there is enough food presently to grow the BG population to trophy size. That being said, there obviously are some nutrients as the waterway does seem to sustain decent crappie, healthy gizzard shad, and golden shiners. I really do not have enough knowledge to know what is best. Thanks for your reply and suggestion.

I THOUGHT THAT I HAD COME UP WITH A FOOL PROOF WAY OF GETTING THE FISHERY UNDER SOME MANAGEMENT:

I made another attempt to accomplish my goals that failed. I spent some time putting together a marketing plan that included fisheries management,including feeders, man made structure, etc and how a MANAGED TROPHY PRIVATED FISHERY COULD BE ADVERTISED.

Additionally, I bought a go pro video camera along with the appropriate editing software (I spent almost $3K on editing software, cameras/mounts/accessories, and a dedicated editing computer) and spend many months and hours on the water filming. I caught about 50 bass on film and came up with an edited video which included me catching about 15 LMB from 3 to 8 1/2 pounds on assorted artificials from our lake. I emailed the marketing manager and head of the HOA to get a meeting to show them the video (I did get a chance to present my written marketing plan). My purpose was to show them that I could provide them with video that would help them sell homes to the bass freaks like myself by advertising a MANAGED PRIVATE TROPHY FISHERY. Both the marketing manager seemed very excited at first but now almost 9 months later have not taken the time to meet with me to view the video. I really thought that this would help me to accomplish management of the fishery. My plan was to trade my services of catching big fish on video for giving me a budget in order to enhance the trophy fishery. Once again to this date I have failed.

My home and dock are located at the beginning of a main lake point. It already was an obvious good spot on our waterway. The addition of the feeder and sinking a double palm trunk and pallet have really helped to keep and grow the forage around my area and it does happen to be a big fish spot. In the last 3 years, I have probably caught 25 bass over 5 pounds including 10 over 7 and 3 over 9 pounds off of my dock. The largest one from my dock was 9 pounds 15 ounces. I really see such an upside with enhancing the fishery, not only for the fisherman but perhaps it would enhance our home values. I really thought that the marketing manager would have been interested but thus far all I get are words and no action. I will not quit but have given up any hope that the fishing club would assist in getting this accomplished.

(QUOTE)You've got food on your dock. Good deal. Improve the habitat for forage fish all you can in the immediate area you have under your control within the allowable limits of the HOA. Make your and your buddies docks BG magnets and reproduction centers.

If your docks are BG magnets, the LMB might follow suite. They are going to want to be where the buffet is. At least you will have the best fishing spot on the lake.

This will not realize your goal of trophy LMB because there is no way you can feed enough fish to improve the whole lake. But I would think you pulling in all kinds of fish from your dock should raise some eyebrows. Maybe after a year of two they will get the idea. Maybe you can lead by example.

Who knows, set the right example and you might be the fishing club president in a few years (like anyone would want that kind of job anyway)

Just some crazy ideas from someone that does not do much fishing. [/quote]

I definitely have raised some eyebrows with the catches that I have made. Unfortunately, I am totally honest and try to share the knowledge that I have and my concern for the fishery. These fellow resident fisherman do not want to do anything but use the resource. Their heads go in the sand when I bring out the fact that money needs to be spent on management of the fishery.

Lastly, even if I was interested in becoming President which I am not, I continue to not be the most popular guy because I cannot let go of the truth that the fishery is and will continue to decline without management. Thanks for all of your replies to my situation.

Good luck, Jack.

You may not be the most popular guy, but I bet you sleep well at night. There's a lot to be said for that.

Our builder who also runs the HOA really saw an explosion in the housing market in 2016 and in 2017 put their money in building supplies and left the lake alone. Without the chemical treatment, we had a tremendous growth of hydrilla in much of the lake and the bluegill and forage population exploded. Now in 2018 the hydrilla is firmly established and although they are once again treating the lake with chemicals, the weed growth is enough to permit the forage base to maintain itself. Add to that, nobody is bringing bass into the lake from other lakes and the fishing has been pretty good. I caught several bass over 8 pounds this season including a 9,75 pounder. I also heard that quite a few 30 pound 5 fish limits were caught this year. A buddy had a 36.4 limit and I had a 34.2 on topwater in early May. Hopefully, the fishery will continue to do well. I am cutting the caudal fin down to nothing on all the small and skinny bass that i catch under 12 inches. Anyway, that is my update and we shall see if the good fishing continues.