Pond Boss Forums INTRO Questions & Observations florida strain identification vs. northern strain

Can someone explain to me the easiest way to identify a florida strain bass from a native strain. I have a pond that I think has both in it and would like to tag them according to species.

James only sure way is genetic testing. See below. ewest

Rate Member posted March 21, 2005 03:23 PM
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Largemouth Bass DNA Identification in an existing population of Largemouth Bass

Mail to:

TVMDL
1 Sippel Road
College Station, TX 77843

Send a check for $ 400.00 to TVMDL

Request a “Largemouth Bass Test”

Include 30 livers packed in dry ice. Upon catching bass and while still alive remove the livers and place them in a small zip lock bag and immediately place them in dry ice. Freeze the sample in a deep freeze and then ship them in dry ice.

Collect the bass from different areas of the lake and record where the samples are from in the lake. Say around 6 areas of the lake with 5 samples per area.

For contact info contact – Dr. Scott Jacques at 888-646-5623.

The testing will include a break down of the genetic make up of the bass identifying percentage of Northern versus Floridas, pure Northern and pure Florida or F1’s.

With this data you can then add 4 pure strain fingerlings per acre in a virgin fishery or add up to 8 fingerlings in a fishery containing existing 1 – 2 lb. bass. The 1 to 2 lb. bass are the most aggressive predator on fingerling bass. It is advised to reduce the population of 1 to 2 lb. bass before stocking fingerlings. The survival rate on fingerlings is approx. 80%. The greater the amounts of cover in a lake, the higher the survival rate of the fingerlings that are stocked.

The right pectoral fin of the fingerlings can be slipped to 50%. On re-growth of the pectoral fin the fin will be wavy and not smooth. If stocking adult Floridas, use a hole punch on the tail of the fish to mark them. In this way you will avoid culling the pure strain Florida bass you stock.

If you are stocking adult pure strain Floridas you can stock approx. 50 adult fish (1 bass per each 2 acres). Stockings should be continued for a period of 3 years. Genetic sampling should continue for three years total from the date you first stock the pure strain Florida fingerlings or adults. Essentially you need to produce 3 spawn cycles to establish a solid F1 population. F1’s are more aggressive than pure Floridas yet get much larger than Northerns. Pure Florida’s get the largest, but are also the most difficult variety for sport fishing. Ideally it is best to have a population of F1 largemouth with some pure strain Floridas to produce overall good fishing with the chance of some very largemouth fish in the population.

Dave
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You might be able to tell by closley looking at the latral line scales . The Florida strain tends to have seventy or more with a broken lateral band and the northern variety tends to have 68 or fewer lateral line scales with an unbroken band. Other than genetic testing this might be the only visiable way to tell the difference.

Thanks this is more difficult than i thought it would be.

I have talked to biologists that tell me A & M is the only sure thing.

Oops, sorry for the double post!

Dave, ask your biologist friend if he is aware of the lateral line differences between the two strains. I know one of our fisheries biologists here in Nebraska was not aware of that physical difference bewteen the two strains until I told him about it. This is a very obscure piece of information that I found 15 years ago while doing research for a college term paper on LMB and predation.

PS There are not too many Florida strain LMB living in Nebraska so I have never been able to compare the two strains side by side.

While genetic testing via electrophoresis is the only sure way to be absolutely positive, there are some physical differences between natives and Floridas. Pure strain Florida bass are always mottled above the lateral line. The look almost camoflauged with dark blotches. Scales along the lateral line tend to number 68-70 and their heads are thinner, side to side, than native strains of bass.
Pure strain natives, on the other hand, have wider heads, consistent coloration top to bottom and tend to be stockier.
But, electrophoresis is the only sure way.

So it's not quite as difficult as sexing Unicorns?

Bob do you have any pictures or web sites with pictures?

Bob's physical description regarding the spotting would explain something. I've seen northern taxidermists airbrush paint our northern bass that way but I've never seen them look like that in this area.

James, I have photos, but they are film, not digital, so I can't post them from here. But, when you hold the two fish side by side, the differences are easy to see. I haven't taken the time to look for any websites, and don't know of any right off the top of my head.

A word of caution if you are purchasing pure Florida strain LMB – do not purchase on the basis of visual ID.

Tyler Fish Farms and Overton Fisheries are the only fish farms that I am aware of – and most likely Mr. Lusk – that have their fish documented by DNA testing.

IMHO visual ID is tricky and questionable at most.
Water conditions and time of year can change patterns and color configuration to a great extent.

Include spotted bass and the visual ID becomes even more problematic.

George Glazener

I don't sell any Florida bass which I can't prove via DNA testing. George's words are wise. Don't do business with anyone you haven't taken the time to check out. And, keep in mind, I have looked at hundreds of thousands, maybe millions, of bass. My eyes can immediately tell the difference between spotted bass, pure strain Florida bass and native strains. But, I will never say, "Those are Florida bass" unless I absolutely know, via genetic testing, what those fish are. Put the two fish side by side, as known commodities, and there is a huge visual difference.

Guys sorry for bringing that post up. I just didn't want to make a new thread. Trying to decide if Florida Bass is suitable for my pond.

Quote from Bassresource.com " In southern United States reservoirs this genetic strain of largemouth bass has produced record-sized fish. Pond results have not been as productive. Florida-strain largemouth bass are less temperature tolerant than our native, northern-strain largemouth. Since temperature effects in ponds can occur quicker and last longer, the effect of winter temperatures can wipe out a pond owner's attemp to produce trophy Floridastrain largemouth bass. It is much more productive to stock northern-strain largemouth bass and manage your pond for big bass " .


What do you think?

Do you think Florida Bass is suitable for a city with the following temperature averages?

Winter average highest : 48 F
Winter average lowest : 31 F (Some nights it can get as low as 20 F . Lakes don't freeze but puddles do)

Summer average highest : 93 F (some days we get 110 F )
Summer average lowest : 68 F



1 more thing. I read that Florida Bass is so much more reluctant than Northern Bass, to strike baits(3:1 ratio). I will have a 1 acre pond, with probably 30-40 bass in it. When i catch and release them, they will start getting hook shy. But Florida Bass , already being a shy fish, might get even more shy and not ever bite my bait. What do you think?


1 more thing(hehe) : How larger does Florida Bass get than Northern Bass?

The things you mention are why the florida x northern cross are so popular...

Your temps sound a lot like West Texas and we can certainly grow some nice bass.

But, like Bobby says, I like the cross a lot more.

Is it also called "Tiger Bass" guys? How can i find some info on that? Can you tell me about it a little?

See this thread re tiger bass

http://forums.pondboss.com/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=274293&page=1