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My experiences agree well with Cecil's experiences in frozen ponds. Get yourself a good sharp ice spud or ice auger to rapidly check thickness - the auger is best and fastest. Once you have been on the ice for several winters you will learn how ice forms and what kind of temperatures for how long it will take to make good solid ice on your pond. Newly formed ice 2"-3" thick with snow on top is much less strong due to the weight of the snow on top of the ice. Thick 3"-6" of snow on the 3"-4" of ice will cause water to seep through ice cracks and make snow wet and soggy under the top dry snow layer. Thick snow drifts along the edges can keep ice thinner in these areas under the drifts.


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If yer gonna go out on thin ice ya might as well dance!


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Thanks, Bill and to everyone else for all the input and great info, with many variables to consider when getting on the ice.

It's a very light snow we got on Sunday with 2-4" currently on the ice, which should be at least 3-5" thick.

I'm taking the day off tomorrow (heat-wave of 32 degrees) to get my barn doors hung and get started on some dam cleaning so we'll see how it goes.

Thanks again PBF!

Keith


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If and when you get out on the ice come back and tell us your experiences including the ice thickness. I would restrict my ice walking to the farthest areas away from the aerator open water area. That path should have the most ice thickness on the pond considering how much cold temps have made ice. There should be no problem walking from your dock to the area you want to trim brush. Check the initial ice thickness about 3 to 6 ft off shore or at the end of your dock. I would wait until the ice is 5"-6" thick before going over and cutting brush. Once you know that ice thickness the ice should be uniform thickness clear over to the area where you want to cut brush. I and those following this topic are curious as to how correct I am.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 12/12/13 11:55 AM.

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We'll do, Bill!

The diffusers have been shut down since 12-1 so I've had no open water for some time, but I'm wanting to get one open due to snow cover which was the initial reason for the post. Water moving under ice just doesn't sound safe!

I was just out there with a 1" spade bit (no auger), drilled down 4 1/2" and didn't hit water. I'm going back out with a long boring bit so I can hit water and get a thickness. At this point I'm thinking at least 5-6" but I'll certainly report back.

Thanks again!

Keith


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Keith, when you do turn the aeration system on consider drilling a hole in the ice anywhere close to the diffuser you are going to power up. This will do a few things. It will control where the bubbles run to prior to it blowing a hole in the ice which means you can have "trails" of thin ice anywhere on the pond prior to creating an open area.If you have a soil pond bank vs a stone apron you may just lift the ice in the diffuser area until the ice breaks if the ice has formed a seal. This is what happens with Blairs and a 4-6 inch hole prior to aeration prevents this,or think of it as venting off the air you are going to be pumping in. With a stone apron the bubbles normally trail and break the weak rock seal easily vs a soil seal.Figure a maximum of 12-24 hours for your aeration to open up a sizable area.Try to keep your open water minimal perhaps 10-20% of your total surface acreage.I only aerate long enough to blow water on the surface to melt off snow on 10-20% of the surface and always seem to keep the DO 90% plus saturation even in the high organic pond. Recently added 250 RT so will do a lot of monitoring this winter.

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Sing with me now (to the tune of "If I had a hammer"):

If I had an auger
I'd auger on the West side
I'd auger on the East side
all over this poooond
I'd be hammerin' out Bluegill
I'd be hammerin' out Wiper
Maybe catch me some Large Mouth
All over this pond

Ok, I'll take back anything I said about sitting on a block of ice waiting for a bite!

It's only 26 degrees out but the sun is shining, there's no wind, and after drilling a dozen 3/4" holes, I so badly wanted to drop in a line! ARGH cry

Back to the ice issue:
No more than 4 1/2" and no less than 3" pretty much all over. So as far as clearing off the dam, I'll still wait until I have someone here with me but I feel pretty safe for the 2-3' off the shore I'd be working at. I'm also heading back out once my phone recharges with a shovel to clear some snow off the ice. The ice was smooth and very clear and could see the bottom of the tape to about 16-18".


And here's why I want to clear the face of the dam


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Originally Posted By: Ted Lea FOREVERGREEN
Keith, when you do turn the aeration system on consider drilling a hole in the ice anywhere close to the diffuser you are going to power up. This will do a few things. It will control where the bubbles run to prior to it blowing a hole in the ice which means you can have "trails" of thin ice anywhere on the pond prior to creating an open area.If you have a soil pond bank vs a stone apron you may just lift the ice in the diffuser area until the ice breaks if the ice has formed a seal. This is what happens with Blairs and a 4-6 inch hole prior to aeration prevents this,or think of it as venting off the air you are going to be pumping in. With a stone apron the bubbles normally trail and break the weak rock seal easily vs a soil seal.Figure a maximum of 12-24 hours for your aeration to open up a sizable area.Try to keep your open water minimal perhaps 10-20% of your total surface acreage.I only aerate long enough to blow water on the surface to melt off snow on 10-20% of the surface and always seem to keep the DO 90% plus saturation even in the high organic pond. Recently added 250 RT so will do a lot of monitoring this winter.


Makes perfectly good sense, Ted! Which is why I never would have thought of that!

Not having an auger (yet), I'll drill many 3/4" holes above the diffuser.

Thanks again!


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From the look of your photo, I would grab the Echo brushcutter and get right in that stuff's face....topside for the most part, with a step or two on the edge of the ice.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
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I love the idea, Tony but I don't have an Echo Brushcutter, I have a DR All Terrain mower, and I've cleared as much as I could topside. Oh, and I lost reverse on the DR Mower so that has limited it's use just a little frown

Here's a picture topside and I don't know if you can tell, but it's pretty much vertical once I get to the edge, so I think it's going to be the Echo chainsaw and pole-saw that's going to do much of the work.



Last edited by Lovnlivin; 12/12/13 02:18 PM.

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from the picture you can see that the bank is steep where the brush is. Ted provides great advice for starting up an aerator when ice has formed over the entire pond. I also cut a hole as a vent above the diffuser to let air escape from under the ice. I have a float on my diffusers so I know where they are accurately below the ice. IMO 4.5" of good clear ice will easily hold you up while you cut brush unless you weigh as much as a lawn tractor.

Last edited by Bill Cody; 12/12/13 02:27 PM.

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Question #1... How far is it from the top of the dam to the water? How much freeboard are you clearing?

#2....Any possibility of burning off that little stuff, so you can see what needs to be cut off at the base?

Observation.....Buy a brushcutter, son! This is your perfect opportunity for another tool purchase. Equip it with a tri-blade, and get after it. I can reach 4' with mine, but can't tell if that would be enough for all of what you have...I know it would get a lot of it, and you would be amazed at how quick it is.

I have a DR brushcutter also, but for this kind of work the hand-held unit has it beat all to pieces. As I tell those who ask: This kind of job won't get done without losing copious amounts of blood or sweat. Oftentimes it's both.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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On the bigger trees/shrubs (anything woody) I would apply TORDON RTU to the fresh cut. This will kill the roots so they never come back.


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75% diesel, 25% gasoline in a pump up sprayer. Windless or low wind day. Soak a small area, light. Keep fire going with the sprayer set on stream if the fire starts to die down. Spray at base of brush/weeds to ensure flames get all the way to the base. That mix is enough to easily light, but not as fast burning (or explosive) as straight gasoline. Keep refilling the pump up sprayer as often as required. If fire doesn't seem hot enough, it can be sprayed at the base of the fire to increase temp without it wanting to climb back up the stream to the sprayer.

Had a pond bank that was covered with small river birch trees, 2'-4' tall. Cutting them all off and spraying the cut stumps with Tordon RTU was a PITA. Burning them seemed to do the trick - no sprouts the following year.


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Scott,

I like your method better, who doesn't like to play with fire.


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Originally Posted By: sprkplug
Question #1... How far is it from the top of the dam to the water? How much freeboard are you clearing?

#2....Any possibility of burning off that little stuff, so you can see what needs to be cut off at the base?

Observation.....Buy a brushcutter, son! This is your perfect opportunity for another tool purchase. Equip it with a tri-blade, and get after it. I can reach 4' with mine, but can't tell if that would be enough for all of what you have...I know it would get a lot of it, and you would be amazed at how quick it is.

I have a DR brushcutter also, but for this kind of work the hand-held unit has it beat all to pieces. As I tell those who ask: This kind of job won't get done without losing copious amounts of blood or sweat. Oftentimes it's both.

Originally Posted By: esshup
75% diesel, 25% gasoline in a pump up sprayer. Windless or low wind day. Soak a small area, light. Keep fire going with the sprayer set on stream if the fire starts to die down. Spray at base of brush/weeds to ensure flames get all the way to the base. That mix is enough to easily light, but not as fast burning (or explosive) as straight gasoline. Keep refilling the pump up sprayer as often as required. If fire doesn't seem hot enough, it can be sprayed at the base of the fire to increase temp without it wanting to climb back up the stream to the sprayer.

Had a pond bank that was covered with small river birch trees, 2'-4' tall. Cutting them all off and spraying the cut stumps with Tordon RTU was a PITA. Burning them seemed to do the trick - no sprouts the following year.


Ok, that's it, moderate me if you must but this is just plain good $hit! laugh

Another donation just posted!

Sprk, question #1; 5' - And I want to clear it all, but on the same hand I need to have some type of grass planted to prevent erosion.
Question #2; ABSOLUTELY!!!

Esshup, you didn't even give me time to ask how I would go about doing that! But on the pump-up sprayer, would I need one designed for flammables? I just have my 3g plastic tank sprayer and I'm guessing the petrol wouldn't be too good on it? (I hope that's not too dumb of a question)

You guys are awesome!!!! Something I never would have thought of, makes perfectly good sense, saves all that "little stuff" from getting in the chain, and a very safe place to do it!

STOKED! grin grin grin


Originally Posted By: sprkplug
Observation.....Buy a brushcutter, son! This is your perfect opportunity for another tool purchase.

LMAO - To see if I can justify it (yeah right) my air compressor took a crap and I'm lost without it, but with the price of a new one I'm going to attempt to rebuild the old one. So with the money I'll save by rebuilding, maybe I can look into the brushcutter whistle

I'm having such an awesome day off and believe it or not I'm getting a lot done, including getting the new barn doors hung. (but, if I would have had an ice auger,,,,,,)

Thank you, everyone for all the input, ideas, and safety concerns.

I'll say it again; PB ROCKS!

Keith





Last edited by Lovnlivin; 12/13/13 02:17 PM.

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I've used the standard white/cream colored pump up sprayers from any of the big box stores. I usually forget to completely empty them out and run RV anti-freeze through at least a few of them every year, and the plastic handles freeze and crack.

I can't say that I've had one fail because of the fuel run through them.


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Very good, thank you!

You guys brought up the burning idea after I was having unpleasant thoughts about standing on ice with a running chainsaw crazy

So Sunday's the burn day with the temps at 38 with 7 mph winds.

And since I tend to live by Murphy's law, I may need to have the camera nearby wink

Thanks again!


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I agree with the brush cutter. That 3 blade does wonders. I cleared some thick trees 3" out with one. Just keep on the gas and go for it.

I was leery when I bought mine, but it is well worth it. Plus in your case you don't have to have ice to clear it out.

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Oh by the way, if you decide on the brushcutter, get yourself a full face shield also. You'll thank me the first time you use it.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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We'll do, thanks!

I have an extra 2 1/2 mouths to feed right now so it may have to be a Spring consideration, but I would certainly get good use of one!

I do have a follow-up question on the burning of the brush though.

If I use the diesel/gas mixture for burning, will that doom the soil for getting some type of grass planted there in the spring? I'm just wondering what's going to keep the bank from eroding if I burn everything out. Rock or concrete slabs would be awesome but that option won't be in the cards (or wallet).

Thanks


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I doubt you will see any long term effects. I'll bet grass grows back just fine this spring.


"Forget pounds and ounces, I'm figuring displacement!"

If we accept that: MBG(+)FGSF(=)HBG(F1)
And we surmise that: BG(>)HBG(F1) while GSF(<)HBG(F1)
Would it hold true that: HBG(F1)(+)AM500(x)q.d.(=)1.5lbGRWT?
PB answer: It depends.
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Just like burning any CRP field. Grass will grow just fine. I've had no problem with getting seeds to germinate providing they are lightly covered with soil and not allowed to dry out once the ground temp is correct for germination.


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Very good, thank you both again and have a great weekend!


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Burning the dam grass worked great and I couldn't be more pleased with the results!







Many thanks once again as it'll be so much easier now to remove all the rest.

And I got to play with fire on a cool winter day wink

PB Rocks!


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